Some questions

[6./ZG26_Emil]

There's a few things I have been wondering about so I'll just put all the questions here. I would really appreciate if you guys can answer some of them.

 

Groups - When I open other people's missions they seem to never/rarely use groups. Is that because I am opening their .msbin files (and they don't show up) or do people not use them...Do they affect performance or anything? 

 

.missionfile Does it matter if they're left in the folder with the rest of the files, should I delete it? I assume the Dserver will automatically send the msbin file to people when they join a server so it doesn't matter if they're there.

 

Mission size - I notice many missions from the different servers are close to 500 kb, is that coincidental or do bigger mission sizes have a detrimental effect on the Dserver performance? 

 

I'll add more as I go but it's best I keep the dumb questions in one place

 

Cheers

 

Emil

 

[coconut]

Groups: No affect on performance that I can think of. If you were looking at some of my missions, they contain no groups because they are typically the result of processing of a number of tools I have written which remove groupes. My hand-writen mission blocks typically use groups. There are some usability issues with groups, and I think people don't like to nestle them deeply because of this. Navigating up and down in groups of groups of groups can be frustrating, so I think many people keep it to a one or two levels. Msnbin files can contain groups too.

 

.mission files: Strangely, the server will pick those over msnbin files if they are there. As they are much slower to load, remove them from your server. I mean: Keep msnbin file, remove mission file (but only on the server).

 

Mission file sizes: They don't matter too much. I have some auto-generated mission files with over 10000 waypoints which work fine (at least last time I tried them). What can matter is the static objects from the templates (towns, bridges, airfields...). If you feel like it you can remove what's outside the play zone, but it's not all that necessary. What usually gives you trouble joining a server and sometimes sends you back to the server list is too many active instances (especially vehicles such as tanks). NightAttackOnKalach is borderline problematic there, I had to remove tanks to make it work. Same problem with the number of players.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Brilliant I suspected the mission files was a problem!

 

Thanks for the help

[LLv34_Temuri]

.mission files: Strangely, the server will pick those over msnbin files if they are there. As they are much slower to load, remove them from your server. I mean: Keep msnbin file, remove mission file (but only on the server).

Is it safe to delete the .mission files while the server is running the mission?

[LLv34_Temuri]

Is it safe to delete the .mission files while the server is running the mission?

Tried this. Apparently not :D

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Tried this. Apparently not :D

 

No it didn't work for me either :D

 

It makes sense though, the Dserver has obviously loaded the mission from the mission file even though the program specifies binary when you select the mission.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Next dumb question

 

What do you use for line break?

 

It's something like br/

Another dumb one.....can you have less than 1m/s turbulence like 0.5? I assume not but whilst I'm here might as well ask 

[JimTM]

<br> for line break

 

<br><br> for paragraph break

 

or you can define paragraphs like so:

 

<p>Para 1 text</p><p>Para 2 text</p>

Edited April 12, 2016 by JimTM

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thanks Jim

 

Any idea about the turbulence

[JimTM]

Sorry, I don't know. I never tried 0.5.

Edited April 12, 2016 by JimTM

[coconut]

0.5 works, I use that in my missions. Turbulence of more than 1m/s make players grumpy.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

0.5 works, I use that in my missions. Turbulence of more than 1m/s make players grumpy.

 

Ha ha yep exactly

 

I've already trolled the squad and told them it's 12 m/s 

 

Thanks again!

Edited April 12, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Here's Wednesday's stupid question!

 

I entered wind directions in to the atmospheric section. I made the direction 020 and when we entered the game it appears to have been changed to (a default?) value of 180.

 

Should I enter the value as 20 instead or something like that?

[Jade_Monkey]

Here's Wednesday's stupid question!

 

I entered wind directions in to the atmospheric section. I made the direction 020 and when we entered the game it appears to have been changed to (a default?) value of 180.

 

Should I enter the value as 20 instead or something like that?

I think 20 should do it. I dont think three digits are mandatory.

[No601_Swallow]

Yeah, shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps double check that you've set the wind direction on the ground and not higher up (there are five 'layers', aren't there). I usually put a wind sock close to my spawn points so I can visually check in-game. Also, of course, a wind direction of 020 means it's blowing towards the north/north-east. I still get it mixed up - and get paranoid about mixing it up. (Edit: the CloD FMB - if I recall correctly - has it the other (incorrect) way round, which is one of the sources of my confusion and paranoia!)

Edited April 13, 2016 by No601_Swallow

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Yeah, shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps double check that you've set the wind direction on the ground and not higher up (there are five 'layers', aren't there). I usually put a wind sock close to my spawn points so I can visually check in-game. Also, of course, a wind direction of 020 means it's blowing towards the north/north-east. I still get it mixed up - and get paranoid about mixing it up. (Edit: the CloD FMB - if I recall correctly - has it the other (incorrect) way round, which is one of the sources of my confusion and paranoia!)

 

Wind direction is reported by the direction it is coming from, a 020 wind means it's blowing towards 200 degrees.

 

Or are you saying that in the game it's the wrong way around?

Edited April 13, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[6./ZG26_Emil]

From Prangsters guide so hopefully mine is ok. I found the issue I hadn't set the direction on one of the missions which is annoying

 

Wind Options give you the ability to set the direction the winds is blowing from and the wind speed in metres/second for a range of altitudes.

[JimTM]

Just to be clear, the wind direction that you specify in the Mission Properties is the direction that the wind is blowing to. The bomb sight weather report gives the direction that the wind is blowing from. So, if you specify 90 degrees (to) in the Mission Properties, the bomb sight report gives the wind as 270 degrees (from).

Edited April 13, 2016 by JimTM

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Just to be clear, the wind direction that you specify in the Mission Properties is the direction that the wind is blowing to. The bomb sight weather report gives the direction that the wind is blowing from. So, if you specify 90 degrees (to) in the Mission Properties, the bomb sight report gives the wind as 270 degrees (from).Argh!!!!!

 

Argh "why god why!!??"

 

Thanks Jim!

[JimTM]

Argh "why god why!!??"

 

Thanks Jim!

 

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, the answer is blowin' in the wind.  

[No601_Swallow]

Argh "why god why!!??"

 

Thanks Jim!

 

My still paranoid understanding is it has always been thus. A "north-wester" is a wind towards the north-west. A south wind is a wind blowing towards the south. Blame sailors and their shiver-me-timbers japes, me hearties. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

My still paranoid understanding is it has always been thus. A "north-wester" is a wind towards the north-west. A south wind is a wind blowing towards the south. Blame sailors and their shiver-me-timbers japes, me hearties. 

 

No that is not correct mate.

 

A Northerly wind coming from the North and heading South.....a 020 wind is blowing towards 200 degrees direction. That is how it is in RL

Edited April 13, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[No601_Swallow]

No that is not correct mate.

 

A Northerly wind coming from the North and heading South.....a 020 wind is blowing towards 200 degrees direction. That is how it is in RL

 

Bugger. I'm going to check myself into the nearest sanitarium - and re-read all those Aubery-Maturin novels... Sigh!

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Bugger. I'm going to check myself into the nearest sanitarium - and re-read all those Aubery-Maturin novels... Sigh!

 

Fear not! I think I'm getting dementia at 43 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Just when you thought it was safe to come back to the Mission making forum.....

 

Stupid question of the day.....

 

Some servers/missions seem to avoid machine guns. I believe there used to be a graphical bug where they appeared to keep firing but they have fixed that I think.

 

Is there any logical reason mission makers seem to prefer 37mm and 20mm over MGs?

 

Personally I like the idea that people take small arms fire and RTB with slight damage rather than the more common catastrophic failure the 20mm and 37mm results in....also MGs just look cool!

[coconut]

I did not know there used to be problem with them. I did not use them because of their limited range, except on Krasnoarmeysk, because the clouds over the objectives confine players to low altitude.

One thing to think of, if there are also tanks approaching, is their positioning. When firing on ground objects, they don't check if there's a friendly object in the way. Many AT guns were lost because of that!

I did not think of using them for entertainment/excitement value, thanks for mentioning that Emil!

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thanks Coconut I've really started to think the Russian 37mm is a bit too accurate considering that it has a low rate of fire.

 

I think most ground attack people would agree that you want to see a hail of fire come up at you, you don't even mind being shot down or hit in fact it's fun having to nurse your aircraft back to base or end up ditching in a field but it's just a bit annoying when "Oh look my wing has been blown off for the 3rd time tonight".

 

I haven't noticed the 20mm being as bad, it could just be that the German aircraft are too frail. I'm going to experiment with MGs and remove the 37mm and or at least just have one of them and see what happens....I want it to be very hard but not frustrating.

 

I am switching to using your AAA groups today to test. That should lighten the load on the server I imagine It also gives me an opportunity to put a few surprises in for those who are getting complacent lol

[No601_Swallow]

I think most ground attack people would agree that you want to see a hail of fire come up at you, you don't even mind being shot down or hit in fact it's fun having to nurse your aircraft back to base or end up ditching in a field but it's just a bit annoying when "Oh look my wing has been blown off for the 3rd time tonight".

 

Shrewd appreciation of player psychology (and yes, I succumbed to AAA in my last squadron coop). It's a "Aw, for F's sake" thing.  Getting 'hosed' by well-deployed AA implacements is one thing, pretty much fair and square if you've gone in to attack stupidly or naively or carelessly. An insta-blot out of the blue is highly annoying. Obviously. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Shrewd appreciation of player psychology (and yes, I succumbed to AAA in my last squadron coop). It's a "Aw, for F's sake" thing.  Getting 'hosed' by well-deployed AA implacements is one thing, pretty much fair and square if you've gone in to attack stupidly or naively or carelessly. An insta-blot out of the blue is highly annoying. Obviously. 

 

The 61K is basically a 37mm copy of the bofors which should be firing fuzed shells as far I know and it has a 5 round magazine so I find it slightly far fetched that we are being hit with such regularity by it and also that it should be exploding like the 88/85s do (but much smaller) and I don't think it does. So we basically have gun with the wrong round (none exploding) which can snipe aircraft flying at 400Kph. Even the MGs aren't as accurate. I find all the flak to be fine except this particular gun.

 

Actually I dont mind getting hit, it can add to the excitement as you struggle to get your aircraft back to base or have to ditch 10 km out from the airfield but having a wing snapped off repeatedly is really irritating At first we thought there was an issue with the 110 but now I think it's probably the 37mm 61K

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I have a new problem discovered by Brano.

 

When some targets are destroyed the player is not getting the kills for them. I added in a bunch of trucks etc, linked them to the triggers and made sure they had the correct country etc. I cannot understand why people aren't getting the kills for them.

 

Does anyone have any ideas?

Edited April 27, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[LLv34_Temuri]

I noticed the same with some blocks that have entities. Didn't check logs. I guess the kills would be there.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

We destroyed a target that required 75 blocks to be destroyed before it would trigger the message. The message was triggered so we knew we had destroyed the target but when we hit tab we had maybe 20 kills between us. Some of these blocks were copy and pasted would that be the cause of the problem? 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Is there any chance this is to do with damage threshold? Some blocks are 50 and others are 99

 

Do I need to delete on death?

Edited April 27, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[72sq_Savinio]

We destroyed a target that required 75 blocks to be destroyed before it would trigger the message. The message was triggered so we knew we had destroyed the target but when we hit tab we had maybe 20 kills between us. Some of these blocks were copy and pasted would that be the cause of the problem? 

 

Same here... we need exactly 20 kills between us to destroy 39 objects group. Should be helpful take a look to Vaal stats system? Maybe the destroyed targets are counted differently in the game... 

 

Another very imaginative theory is that bombs shock wave don't count destroyed targets.... just to say something.         

Edited April 27, 2016 by 72sq_Savinio

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Same here... we need exactly 20 kills between us to destroy 39 objects group. Should be helpful take a look to Vaal stats system? Maybe the destroyed targets are counted differently in the game... 

 

Another very imaginative theory is that bombs shock wave don't count destroyed targets.... just to say something.         

 

Oh so working as intended 

 

That doesn't make much sense to me lol

[Ala13_Kokakolo]

I found out (I do not know if this is related) when a bomb kills two entities at the same time it sometimes (most of the time) only count it as one. One way of avoid it I found out is to link the on kill event to a timer and delay the trigger about one second difference for objects next to other objects. Lets say I got a line of entities, I will apply no delay for number one, 1 sec number two, 2 secs number three, one again for four.... My problem was with counters. Unless I do the before mentioned system, the counter do not get the right count. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Wow that is interesting. I've never noticed any problems on WOL or DED and the triggers are basically copied from WOL 

 

The first time this happened Brano had been attacking an airfield and he said he wasn't getting target kills for each of the Ju-88 static blocks.

 

If I increase the durability or something would that help? Or is there a way to increase the value of each block so each one is counted as a kill?

[coconut]

I found out (I do not know if this is related) when a bomb kills two entities at the same time it sometimes (most of the time) only count it as one

 

As you say, I believe the problem is that a counter cannot be increased multiple times within the same simulation cycle, which is 20ms. So in other words, nothing to do with kills by themselves, only with the counting mechanism. Any other logic that uses counters will suffer the same problem, even if it's counting something else than kills (e.g. vehicles entering a zone).

 

Wow that is interesting. I've never noticed any problems on WOL or DED and the triggers are basically copied from WOL 

 

The first time this happened Brano had been attacking an airfield and he said he wasn't getting target kills for each of the Ju-88 static blocks.

 

If I increase the durability or something would that help? Or is there a way to increase the value of each block so each one is counted as a kill?

 

I think that's a different problem entirely. I think that stuff without entities is never counted. Static blocks with entities are counted, but I'm not sure all are counted. For instance, make sure they are not neutral.

I also suspect some blocks are not 100% finished yet. The indestructible bridge being one example. Ponton bridges as seen in BOS are easy to destroy when they have entities, regarldless of they durability.

 

I don't think increasing the durability will help getting the kills. All it will do is make stuff harder to kill.

 

 

We destroyed a target that required 75 blocks to be destroyed before it would trigger the message. The message was triggered so we knew we had destroyed the target but when we hit tab we had maybe 20 kills between us. Some of these blocks were copy and pasted would that be the cause of the problem?

 

Hard to say without seeing the logic. It's possible the logic uses OnDamaged events instead of OnKilled, that would explain the difference. Additionally, I also think the kill stat in the client isn't entirely reliable.

Edited April 28, 2016 by coconut

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thanks Coconut they are definitely all either Russia or German for sure.

 

Most of these static blocks are simply Zis trucks hidden inside buildings so that people get a feeling of success when hitting a large target. It's exactly the type of thing that all the other servers do.

 

The new ones I made are all On Killed but maybe the old ones are On Damaged....the lines are the same kill....how can I tell?

Hard to say without seeing the logic. It's possible the logic uses OnDamaged events instead of OnKilled, that would explain the difference. Additionally, I also think the kill stat in the client isn't entirely reliable.

 

Actually this is where my money is.....

 

How can I tell the difference? The lines are the same colour

[coconut]

You open the properties of the entity, there you'll see two tables, one for targets, one for objects. In the one for targets you can see the type of event.