I think the AI enemy is blind in clouds!

[seafireliv]

I must be finally getting to grips with this game as I finally spotted and engaged 109s attacking our PE2 escourts.

 

I was pleased to see that in one scrap, i was dancing the dance of death with a 109 just above cloud. He got the edge on me and forced me to overshoot. In a panic I dived into the clouds, looking behind me in fear of his tracer fire. I could just see him in the cloud, so twisted harder and mouevered more until I saw- nothing. I flew out of the cloud and the 109 was nowhere to be seen.

 

I don`t want to speak too soon, but i swear i lost the AI in the cloud!

Edited April 2, 2016 by seafireliv

[Feathered_IV]

I think that is correct. If I remember rightly it is a feature of Rise of Flight too (free to download, check it out).

I'm not sure about flak, but it was mentioned in the dev diaries that searchlights will loose you in cloud too.

[Gambit21]

Can enemy AI be surprised/jumped yet?

I haven't booted this sim up in a while - but I'm circling back around to it soon.

[seafireliv]

I think that is correct. If I remember rightly it is a feature of Rise of Flight too (free to download, check it out).

I'm not sure about flak, but it was mentioned in the dev diaries that searchlights will loose you in cloud too.

Good stuff, avoided AI again in cloud,(of course I tend to lose him too) so it`s real nice to see this.

[Feathered_IV]

Can enemy AI be surprised/jumped yet?

I haven't booted this sim up in a while - but I'm circling back around to it soon.

I don't think they can be jumped unfortunately. The AI is similar to RoF where once you enter gun range you enter their reaction bubble and they evade. In RoF this translates into a left bank and diving turn every time. Fortunately BoS AI has a few more tricks than that.

[Finkeren]

I think that is correct. If I remember rightly it is a feature of Rise of Flight too (free to download, check it out).

I'm not sure about flak, but it was mentioned in the dev diaries that searchlights will loose you in cloud too.

I must've missed that.

 

I was under the impression, that the AI lost their blindness in clouds (which had carried over from RoF) when they changed the clouds from their original RoF form in early BoS development?

 

Great to hear, if they've regained (relost?) their lack of cloud radar.

 

Now of only that persistent issue with how objects render against clouds could be solved, it remains the most common and obvious graphical glitch, and it's still here after years of development.

[GridiroN]

I actually think AI should be blind in clouds as clouds pretty damn well blind real pilots. I know I certainly am a sitting duck in a cloud assuming anyone can see me. 

 

Plus, the AI's combat awareness in general is far too high anyways. 

[Willy__]

Can enemy AI be surprised/jumped yet? I haven't booted this sim up in a while - but I'm circling back around to it soon.

 

They can, its just very hard to do so. But they have terrible situation awareness at low light situations: night, late dusk and early dawn sorties makes for some amazing sneaky times! 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Herr_Istruba

[Brano]

Yesterday I escorted 3 peshkas in one of campaign missions. Interesting,out of three projected against clouds, only one was blurred. As Fink wrote,this is still an unpleasant visual feature that kind of ruins the atmosphere of flying in clouds. Besides that, I love playing cat and mouse with AI in the clouds

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Brano

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yesterday I escorted 3 peshkas in one of campaign missions. Interesting,out of three projected against clouds, only one was blurred. As Fink wrote,this is still an unpleasant visual feature that kind of ruins the atmosphere of flying in clouds. Besides that, I love playing cat and mouse with AI in the clouds

 

Seems to be an engine limitation. I've noticed that War Thunder's engine has similar issues although the latest engine update has improved it quite a lot and they have an entirely new cloud system coming soon that might improve it again. Maybe some new tricks coming down the API pipeline will make it easier for the devs to handle clouds.

[seafireliv]

I actually think AI should be blind in clouds as clouds pretty damn well blind real pilots. I know I certainly am a sitting duck in a cloud assuming anyone can see me. 

 

Plus, the AI's combat awareness in general is far too high anyways. 

Of course they should be! I suppose I was a little worried since the original IL2 didn`t quite have the AI blind in clouds.

 

There are still some AI issues i don`t like, but this is welcome.

[LukeFF]

Um...the AI not being able to see in the clouds is nothing new at all.

[seafireliv]

Um...the AI not being able to see in the clouds is nothing new at all.

Ah, but if you knew how much of an issue this was in the original IL2 for years, you`d understand how happy I am to see it now.

Edited April 5, 2016 by seafireliv

[SqwkHappy]

I've had two instances where I used clouds vs AI, the first one I lost the AI, or the AI gave up and went home. The second one, he followed me up and while I couldn't see him through the clouds, he clearly saw me and shot up my plane. AI can't see clouds? I'm not sure about that.

[seafireliv]

I've had two instances where I used clouds vs AI, the first one I lost the AI, or the AI gave up and went home. The second one, he followed me up and while I couldn't see him through the clouds, he clearly saw me and shot up my plane. AI can't see clouds? I'm not sure about that.

Well this kind of thing is always going to be up for debate because players will always suspect the AI. I`ve discovered it`s the nature of Humans when dealing with AI in games. Even when it`s to the level of HAL it will suffer accusations and doubt.

 

I went on an online FPS game with a good friend of mine playing with AI against AI and while I thought the team AI was pretty good, he constantly whined how bad the team AI was. I noticed that the problem was he wasn`t taking any account for the friendly AI at all, running infront of them (and me) while in the middle of shooting, etc, etc. But it was always the AI`s fault.

 

Of course, no one ever blames the Human.

 

I believe from my dogfights that the AI is blind in cloud, others have also confirmed this. Perhaps those of you who doubt, try manouevering after entering cloud, change your course (you should do this with Humans to), because it`s possible the AI might still be able to `see` you in cloud until you change course. Humans, like me, will `guess` shoot at you in the hope you flew in a straight line.

 

In one case I noticed the AI was still following me in cloud when I had dived into it, but I could see the AI in the mist, so it made sense he could still `see` me- I went deeper into cloud, changing course until i could not see him. And that`s when I lost him. Maybe it is also affected by level of AI `experience`- Perhaps Aces are far harder to lose?

 

AI can`t `guess` shoot and obviously isn`t as blind in clouds as a Human being, but I believe it is hamstrung enough to be heavily disadvantaged when you dive into cloud.

Edited April 6, 2016 by seafireliv

[Feathered_IV]

 

I went on an online FPS game with a good friend of mine playing with AI against AI and while I thought the team AI was pretty good, he constantly whined how bad the team AI was. I noticed that the problem was he wasn`t taking any account for the friendly AI at all, running infront of them (and me) while in the middle of shooting, etc, etc. But it was always the AI`s fault.

 

Of course, no one ever blames the Human.

 

 

That is a really interesting observation. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Just finished a misision with low 7/8 cloud layer at 3000ft and the enemy Ai was cloud jerking at it's finest. Always attackign with the same pattern. Pop out of nowhere, lining up behind me (why should they engage my other ai wingmens) and than blasting off into the cloud layer in a shallow climb again.

 

But than again it's the Exp system and Ai that make the campaign as bad as it really is.

[Gambit21]

Ah, but if you knew how much of an issue this was in the original IL2 for years, you`d understand how happy I am to see it now.

 

Luke is from "back in the day" as well so he's well aware, although I think he spent most of the time with us in CoOps

flying with Billfish, Seahawk, PorkChop etc. and humans are always blind in clouds.

[DD_Arthur]

 

flying with Billfish, 

 

 

Wow!  Now theres a blast from the past.  First Lady of the 'Zoo     

[seafireliv]

Wow!  Now theres a blast from the past.  First Lady of the 'Zoo     

Certainly is. I  kinda wondered if she was still around.

Edited April 7, 2016 by seafireliv

[SqwkHappy]

Well this kind of thing is always going to be up for debate because players will always suspect the AI. I`ve discovered it`s the nature of Humans when dealing with AI in games. Even when it`s to the level of HAL it will suffer accusations and doubt.

 

I went on an online FPS game with a good friend of mine playing with AI against AI and while I thought the team AI was pretty good, he constantly whined how bad the team AI was. I noticed that the problem was he wasn`t taking any account for the friendly AI at all, running infront of them (and me) while in the middle of shooting, etc, etc. But it was always the AI`s fault.

 

Of course, no one ever blames the Human.

 

I believe from my dogfights that the AI is blind in cloud, others have also confirmed this. Perhaps those of you who doubt, try manouevering after entering cloud, change your course (you should do this with Humans to), because it`s possible the AI might still be able to `see` you in cloud until you change course. Humans, like me, will `guess` shoot at you in the hope you flew in a straight line.

 

In one case I noticed the AI was still following me in cloud when I had dived into it, but I could see the AI in the mist, so it made sense he could still `see` me- I went deeper into cloud, changing course until i could not see him. And that`s when I lost him. Maybe it is also affected by level of AI `experience`- Perhaps Aces are far harder to lose?

 

AI can`t `guess` shoot and obviously isn`t as blind in clouds as a Human being, but I believe it is hamstrung enough to be heavily disadvantaged when you dive into cloud.

 

You mistake me for someone else. I forgive you. But I wont justify you're assumption that I'm a 'noob' who doesn't know how to use clouds. The rules are simple: If I can't see him, if I literally watch him disappear into the clouds as I run away, and then make a turn or two and he still follows me through heavy clouds and shoots me down while he's still masked by the clouds from my view, I'm going to call it what it is. Please don't confuse me for someone else again. It agitates me.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I've only read a few of the posts in this thread but I will say this: it's incredible how much our mileage varies because it seems like the AI in the missions I've flown can see through anything.

[Rjel]

I just flew a quick mission against AI set to Random in LaGGs with a fair amount of cloud cover. The first one I knocked down pretty quickly but the second seemed to be pretty evasive. He could follow me easily through the wispier clouds like one would expect but if I ducked into heavy cloud and milled around a bit, he'd turn away. It might have always been this way and I hadn't noticed it. Wishful thinking maybe but the AI does seem to be improving to me. Especially in the BoM campaign. I've seen some pretty good formation flying by AI Bf-110s. I think this is on the right track. The best part is that so far, in my experience anyway, no AI has ever come online and claimed bias or cheating after getting waxed.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Rjel

[LukeFF]

 

 

The best part is that so far, in my experience anyway, no AI has ever come online and claimed bias or cheating after getting waxed.

 

 

That's one of the best parts about playing offline. 

[Brano]

I stole kills of AI on several occasions. Same rule applies also for this situation. No one to complain 

[seafireliv]

I stole kills of AI on several occasions. Same rule applies also for this situation. No one to complain 

True.

Also, if you read the accounts of pilots in real life they did sometimjes (accidentally or on purpose) over shoot to take another plane`s kill.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

I've only read a few of the posts in this thread but I will say this: it's incredible how much our mileage varies because it seems like the AI in the missions I've flown can see through anything.

 

Same experience for me.

 

I'm playing with Icons ON for grinding unlocks in the campaign, and flying with the autolevel in the middle of the cloud layer (solid overcast), I saw 4 P40 gently swarming me and snipe my engine. That was yesterday. 

If I try to do that, I can't even see the shape of an IL2 from 20m away. So being shot from 300m away or so, I can tell that AI definitely see through the clouds.

 

I hope we'll see some major improvements in AI behaviour in the next few updates because it's ruining the single player experience for me. Each mission I fly in the campaign teaches me a new way to complain about it.

 

Some other common situations I observed :

 

- Wingmen that drop their bombs to engage a lone enemy fighter even if we already have a full schwarm in cover

- AI that always look to pull headon sniping passes. Friend or foe alike, I lost 3 wingmen at once when they decided with their F2 to go straight towards 4 P40s... This is even worse than warthunder arcade.

- Enemy AI that specifically target the player's plane above all other priority. On one occasion I've been tailed by 3 P40s that all got shot down by my single escort fighter one after the other. They just don't give a beep about their surroundings once they start focus you. On another I witnessed my AI wingman flying in almost perfect formation with 7 I16, because they were locked after me. He managed to get through unscratched as they all turned around when I got out of reach.

 

Sadly, the old IL2 AI behaved in a much more credible way.

 

 

I'm in hope of a big overhaul of the AI system before the official release.

Edited April 20, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber

[seafireliv]

Same experience for me.

 

I'm playing with Icons ON for grinding unlocks in the campaign, and flying with the autolevel in the middle of the cloud layer (solid overcast), I saw 4 P40 gently swarming me and snipe my engine. That was yesterday. 

If I try to do that, I can't even see the shape of an IL2 from 20m away. So being shot from 300m away or so, I can tell that AI definitely see through the clouds.

Maybe playing with icons kills the blind effect all round?

 

In my sorties I fly with NO icons and I can tell you that I can routinely now lose the fighter AI in clouds.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Maybe playing with icons kills the blind effect all round?

 

In my sorties I fly with NO icons and I can tell you that I can routinely now lose the fighter AI in clouds.

 

That would be an explanation. 

[unlikely_spider]

I play on expert with no icons. During my last mission I flew in BoM campaign, we were flying at about 1500m, just above full cloud cover, and my I-16 wingman spotted Stukas flying below the clouds at 500m. He dove through the clouds to attack the formation. I followed him of course, but if it weren't for his actions there would have been no way for me to see the Stukas there.

But on other occasions I swear I've successfully hidden in the clouds to get away from a pursuer. So I don't know what to think.

[seafireliv]

Hmmm... What I do know.

 

1. The AI when not in a fight with the Player seems to have super radar vision. They spot stuff well out of sight and below clouds. Yes. Agreed.

 

2. If the Player is in combat with an AI aicraft and dives into clouds, he will very likely lose the AI. I have done it too many times for it to be a coincidence. Hint: move about once in cloud, don`t fly in a straight line.

 

3. Perhaps icons affect the AI`s seeing ability? Icons on he sees you everywhere, icons off, he don`t? I can only surmise from what others say here as I don`t do icons.

 

 

Would be nice to get a final clarification from the Devs on exactly what the AI sees and does not see, though.

[Willy__]

 

 

Some other common situations I observed :   - Wingmen that drop their bombs to engage a lone enemy fighter even if we already have a full schwarm in cover - AI that always look to pull headon sniping passes. Friend or foe alike, I lost 3 wingmen at once when they decided with their F2 to go straight towards 4 P40s... This is even worse than warthunder arcade. - Enemy AI that specifically target the player's plane above all other priority. On one occasion I've been tailed by 3 P40s that all got shot down by my single escort fighter one after the other. They just don't give a beep about their surroundings once they start focus you. On another I witnessed my AI wingman flying in almost perfect formation with 7 I16, because they were locked after me. He managed to get through unscratched as they all turned around when I got out of reach.

 

 

LOL

 

Those things also happened to me, more than once, tbh.

 

I play on expert and also had cases of the AI chasing me through the clouds and cases of losing them, so I really have no idea what "trigger" the AI to see through the clouds or not.

[LLv24_Zami]

I play on expert with no icons. During my last mission I flew in BoM campaign, we were flying at about 1500m, just above full cloud cover, and my I-16 wingman spotted Stukas flying below the clouds at 500m. He dove through the clouds to attack the formation. I followed him of course, but if it weren't for his actions there would have been no way for me to see the Stukas there.

But on other occasions I swear I've successfully hidden in the clouds to get away from a pursuer. So I don't know what to think.

I assume Stukas were a mission target? If that is the case, the wingmen have all seeing radar and they can see the target planes in every situation. Which sucks IMO.

[unlikely_spider]

I assume Stukas were a mission target? If that is the case, the wingmen have all seeing radar and they can see the target planes in every situation. Which sucks IMO.

Yeah, they were.