Fw190 - What have they done ?!?

[Dr_Molenbeek]

If the 190 is correct now, why were the British so concerned when it made its appearance on the western front? A couple of Hurricanes and a Gladiator could have decimated the entire deployment of 190s if this new flight model is to be believed. Can't turn, can't run, can maybe climb a couple of feet per minute faster. Something doesn't smell right. A highly trained and combat experienced RAF wouldn't get concerned over nothing. Sorry, I would desert if I was assigned this piece of shit.

 

IMO of course.

 

Be ready, people from CFMD (Current Flight Model Defenders) will answer you soon, things like "Fw 190 was faster that's why Spitfires had troubles, period", you know.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Ze_Hairy

[Turban]

FW had great qualities, speed, acceleration in dive, diving speed, absolute best aileron efficiency (roll rate) ever.... (prob forgetting some)

 

Did it have a perfectly clean flying behavior? no it didn't. 

 

Otherwise FW would have decimated the entire RAF ...   It didn't happen for a reason.

You guys are too excessives and keep talking in hyperboles. It's hard to take you seriously.  Planes have flaws. The FW has flaws too. Sudden stall on abrupt AoA changes is one of them. It's documented and all.

 

Since you won't accept that and just keep calling the current FW a piece of sh*t it's really hard to think you're reasonable and willing to assess things seriously and look beyond your agenda of having a flawless plane....

Edited April 3, 2016 by Turban

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Anyone actually done some 2v2 or 1v1 testing?

 

I bet not lol

Edited April 4, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Anyone actually done some 2v2 or 1v1 testing?

 

I bet not lol

 

What do you want to prove here ? That the plane is "perfectly able to fight lol" ? What is so difficult to understand in "stall speed is higher so the plane is less maneuverable and also hardest to handle" ?

 

Conserve your skill to BnZ Yaks from 9000m please, stop joking, TDC.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ze_Hairy

[Beazil]

Well, this could be a long post.  It might be short too, but let's see.

I just took a FW up for the 1st phase of the Stalingrad Campaign (not available in the new Moscow campaign) on full real, and full length.  My objective was to intercept bombers at 5500m.  Passing through the waypoints climbing at 400kph left me shy of the objective target by a full kilometer (I had only climbed to 4.5k by the time the enemy was spotted).  My wingmen failed to respond to commands to rejoin formation (they never do what I tell them too lol!) and went racing after the menacing lone Pe Bomber now diving through our three FW190A3's in an attempt to pass us by for home.  We ran it down and killed it.  I made it back to 5.5k in time to get to the rtb point.  Then I was directed to land as I had come to the end of the mission.  As I turned to begin my landing approach I was greeted with "IL STURMOVIK HAS STOPPED RESPONDING", bringing my mission to an abrupt ending.

This is my recent experience flying the FW. 

 

And yes, for what it's worth, I'm using a Warthog center mount one of "metalnwood's" handmade extensions.  It is about 7 cm long.  I also have a 10 cm one around here, but it's too much force on the mechanism, imho, for regular use - so I use the 7 cm one.

 

Shooting down the bad guy was not very challenging, and there was no escort to dogfight with during that mission.  However the crashes are frustratingly frequent and do make progression in the campaign annoying, to say the least, but the move to 64 bit is worth it, and we know we are all beta testing atm anyway, so there's that.

I never got the chance to really fly the bird at high speed verses any opposition to speak of other than the bomber  - that took place probably at about 500-600 kph while my artificial wingmen and I ran him down.  I did not notice any strange behavior there - but it wasn't much of a fight. 

 

I always *thought* the 190 was more than capable of major bursts of speed - far surpassing what could be achieved vs the F4 - in "other" sims - but in this one it's the FW that gets left in the dust - so to speak.  Unusual?  I don't know.  I'm no experten.  But that is the behavior I've come to expect from the FW - and in this simulator - well, I don't see that "superiority".  My "other" experiences taught me that the FW could climb quite well - in a gentle climb - not an aggressive one like the 109 could sustain.  but if you kept it over 400kph in a gentle climb she could outrun most of her contemporaries - even the mighty spit ix until you got to the thin air above 5.5k.....

 

.... not saying that interpretation is correct either - but it's definitely different from what I would expect.  This plane hardly seems capable of achieving the 500+kph speeds required to make the most of her - and then she can't do it for long. - Again, I'm flying to live - not pushing the envelope and just trying to get kills and survive.  I haven't really tossed her around much on the online server since the update, but when I did, she performed as she did before - I did not notice any major differences from last weeks's FW to this one.  Maybe she climbs better than before, but I couldn't tell.  She still sucked in that department...

 

What else can I say?  I do love this sim and the FW regardless and will fly it lots regardless - just because. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

What do you want to prove here ? That the plane is "perfectly able to fight lol" ? What is so difficult to understand in "stall speed is higher so the plane is less maneuverable and also hardest to handle" ?

 

Conserve your skill to BnZ Yaks from 9000m please, stop joking, TDC.

 

We have a manoeuvre named after you my friend.....it's 'The Ze Hairy'

[3./JG15_Kampf]

I'm not technical in aerodynamics, just spend my point of view as a game pilot. What else gets me frustrated with fw 190 BOS is that it seems only work against innocent targets caught by surprise. A good Russian fighter pilot who sees the fw 190, can go around and then fw190 has to leave the combat or shot down and the other plane.

​I wonder fight p 51 and p 47, faster planes that fw 190. What did the Fw190 can do against p47 and p 51? can not get away  !!!!

[Dr_Molenbeek]

We have a manoeuvre named after you my friend.....it's 'The Ze Hairy'

 

 

Nice joke, like what, when you want, you can be funny.

 

Now i'll go to sleep with a smile.

 

EDIT: I'm not your friend, thank you.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ze_Hairy

[BlitzPig_EL]

Question...

 

Since the stall behavior has come into question on the 190, I'm wondering, how are stalls modeled in the sim?

My (very) basic understanding of stall behavior of real aeroplanes is that they all will stall when a critical angle of attack is reached (typically +/- 18 degrees), and it is not airspeed dependent. 

Is this what is happening in the sim?

 

If so, then is this stall behavior an outcome of elevator sensitivity or effectiveness changes?   If an elevator is more effective, it will be easier to induce a stall, either at 1G (where the stall speed numbers in the manual come from) or at higher speeds/G loading in an accelerated stall.

 

If a virtual aircraft's turn ability was tweaked to increase said ability solely by increasing elevator effectiveness, then one outcome would be an easier entry into an accelerated stall.

 

Just throwing that out there for consideration.

Edited April 4, 2016 by BlitzPig_EL

[Beazil]

Lol. I spend time in the fw avoiding the stall not looking for it. Maybe that's my problem.

[Wulf]

I have to confess, my enthusiasm for the game is at an all-time low, in fact, so low I haven't flown online in weeks.  I sit in my chair, I put my TIR on but I just can't bring myself to push the multi-player button - not at the moment anyway and particularly not since the last 'patch'.  Things just seem to be going from bad to worse. We have a 190 that feels (well to me at least) like a nose-heavy dog, an La-5 that still rolls like La-5 FN  ( strangely enough, La-5 FN roll data is the only LaGG/La-5 roll data the devs have) and a LaGG-3 that some people firmly believe to be the' best Soviet aircraft' in the game - an aircraft that so under-performed in RL, that Stalin himself tried to have it killed off.   Jay-ziz, it's like someone's crushing-up crazy pills and putting them in the drinking water.   Wow!

 

18. Claiming that FM is incorrect without the required proof and starting a flame thread based on such claim is prohibited.

The form for an FM claim consists of:

• short but consistent description of the claim;
• link to a reference and to a specific part of such reference that describes correct behaviour of a disputed element/situation;
• game track record and the list of conditions used to recreate disputed element/situation.

Exception to this rule: FM discussion

 

Not following this form in its entirety will result in locking (locking and deleting) such thread and also in the following:

First offense - 7 days ban on entry

[Willy__]

I have to confess, my enthusiasm for the game is at an all-time low, in fact, so low I haven't flown online in weeks.  I sit in my chair, I put my TIR on but I just can't bring myself to push the multi-player button - not at the moment anyway and particularly not since the last 'patch'.  Things just seem to be going from bad to worse. We have a 190 that feels (well to me at least) like a nose-heavy dog, an La-5 that still rolls like La-5 FN  ( strangely enough, La-5 FN roll data is the only LaGG/La-5 roll data the devs have) and a LaGG-3 that some people firmly believe to be the' best Soviet aircraft' in the game - an aircraft that so under-performed in RL, that Stalin himself tried to have it killed off.   Jay-ziz, it's like someone's crushing-up crazy pills and putting them in the drinking water.   Wow!

 

I'm on that train with you bro. The only thing that is keeping me playing the game right now is the 88.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I have to admit... I spent some more time with it tonight and its considerably less fun to fly than it used to be. It feels heavy and sluggish at times and then quite normal at other times.

 

Again, if this is how it should be then that's ok with me but if its not then obviously it hasn't found the right spot yet. Having gone through this back and forth experience with the original IL-2 series I have to say that currently the A-3 feels like the old A-4/A-5 did when Forgotten Battles came out. Deadly at times but don't you dare turn it while the BoS version until this patch had felt more like the IL-2 1946 4.12/4.13 patch with the revised FM's from TD.

 

I know anecdotes don't really help with getting changes done. What should we be looking to dig up on this bird?

[NooneYouKnow]

FW had great qualities, speed, acceleration in dive, diving speed, absolute best aileron efficiency (roll rate) ever.... (prob forgetting some)

 

Did it have a perfectly clean flying behavior? no it didn't. 

 

Otherwise FW would have decimated the entire RAF ...   It didn't happen for a reason.

You guys are too excessives and keep talking in hyperboles. It's hard to take you seriously.  Planes have flaws. The FW has flaws too. Sudden stall on abrupt AoA changes is one of them. It's documented and all.

 

Since you won't accept that and just keep calling the current FW a piece of sh*t it's really hard to think you're reasonable and willing to assess things seriously and look beyond your agenda of having a flawless plane....

 

 You don't have the plane. your view on the flight model is irrelevant. I stand by my opinion. In this game, the FW-190 is a piece of [Edited]. However, I am fully aware that one mans garbage is another mans treasure. My best planes are the G2(yes, G2), and the Mig-3 followed closely by the LA-5.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Bearcat
Language

[LukeFF]

an aircraft that so under-performed in RL, that Stalin himself tried to have it killed off.

 

Rather, an aircraft that was constantly improved and stayed in production well into 1944. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by LukeFF

[StG2_Manfred]

I have to confess, my enthusiasm for the game is at an all-time low, in fact, so low I haven't flown online in weeks.  I sit in my chair, I put my TIR on but I just can't bring myself to push the multi-player button - not at the moment anyway and particularly not since the last 'patch'.  Things just seem to be going from bad to worse. We have a 190 that feels (well to me at least) like a nose-heavy dog, an La-5 that still rolls like La-5 FN  ( strangely enough, La-5 FN roll data is the only LaGG/La-5 roll data the devs have) and a LaGG-3 that some people firmly believe to be the' best Soviet aircraft' in the game - an aircraft that so under-performed in RL, that Stalin himself tried to have it killed off.   Jay-ziz, it's like someone's crushing-up crazy pills and putting them in the drinking water.   Wow!

 

Same here Wulf! Luckily summer is coming, maybe it's best to put the headset off and do other things. Meanwhile I know so many people who avoid buying this sim because of the "jumpy behaviour" of F4 and G2. My alternative was the Fw, but now it's also gone....

[Livai]

I made the test yesterday and forced this what I normally not do. What I newer expected that a Mig-3 has a speed boost like a Mig-29. I am not joking. The last seconds from the video you see how the Mig-3 lost his speed from the dive and now he kicks in the Mig-29 boost to speed up his Mig-3 very quickly to catch up at Level Flight. What you can see clearly if you look at this flight record [Download Link].

 

The next video is how long I need to wait to catch up to a Lagg-3 at Level Flight. The Focke is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 G-2 and the Bf-109 G-2 is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 F-4. Indeed it feels a like a brick..........

 

What you say to this flight record. I did my best to reproduce what is maybe wrong with the Focke now.....

 

[Download]

http://www111.zippyshare.com/v/Uao0boxz/file.html

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

16. Fw 190 A-3 aerodynamic characteristics corrected to meet the now available data (in short, its fineness ratio was reduced a little while its climb rate at high altitudes increased somewhat);

Right, but it seems to me that people are running in a circle. FW-190 is terrible to fly after update -> FM is wrong -> My experience is that its very unpleasent now -> Fix bad FM -> ...

But there must be some data that were presented to Han which prompted such change, so first thing imo should be trying to find whatever data were used and their verification. 

[Turban]

I made the test yesterday and forced this what I normally not do. What I newer expected that a Mig-3 has a speed boost like a Mig-29. I am not joking. The last seconds from the video you see how the Mig-3 lost his speed from the dive and now he kicks in the Mig-29 boost to speed up his Mig-3 very quickly to catch up at Level Flight. What you can see clearly if you look at this flight record [Download Link].

 

The next video is how long I need to wait to catch up to a Lagg-3 at Level Flight. The Focke is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 G-2 and the Bf-109 G-2 is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 F-4. Indeed it feels a like a brick..........

 

What you say to this flight record. I did my best to reproduce what is maybe wrong with the Focke now.....

 

[Download]

http://www111.zippyshare.com/v/Uao0boxz/file.html

 

 

I have to say, your post perfectly illustrates the level of this discussion: 

 

 

First track : "Lagg faster than a FW OMG !!" 

 

We see a FW, catching up on a Lagg, in a straight horizontal line. In 1 minute, the FW gains 200 meters. So the FW is catching up. At a "normal" rate.

We don't know what was  the situation before. It doesn't show.  Was the FW out of a climb? Was the Lagg out of a dive ??

 

Anyway, nothing, nothing wrong at all.

 

And when the Lagg was diving after seeing the FW probably... FW pilot didn't follow, but if he had he would have caught up easily.

 

Second track : "MIg 3 = Mig 29 OMG RUSSIAN BIAS "

 

FW in a straight horizontal line. Mig 3 diving here and there, going faster.

 

The migs are diving , you're going horizontal, ofc they'll be faster.

 

Then the real funny part :

 

FW is on deck going in a straight fast line. Mig3 behind can't catch up and loses ground.    

 

Then the FW ace pilot pushes full rudder (keeping it till the end) , losing 100 km/h + in the process.(Down to 450 or less IAS)  Guess what, the Mig 3 catches him.

 

Edit: I actually wonder why the full rudder? Deliberate attempt to slow the plane down and get killed ??? I mean, that full rudder maneuver is what you do to loose speed, so why do it with a Mig3 on your 6 ??

 

 

 

It's so disingenuous,  it's really hard to believe you guys are serious.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Turban

[Livai]

First track : "Lagg faster than a FW OMG !!"

 

We see a FW, catching up on a Lagg, in a straight horizontal line. In 1 minute, the FW gains 200 meters. So the FW is catching up. At a "normal" rate.

We don't know what was the situation before. It doesn't show. Was the FW out of a climb? Was the Lagg out of a dive ??

 

Anyway, nothing, nothing wrong at all.

 

And when the Lagg was diving after seeing the FW probably... FW pilot didn't follow, but if he had he would have caught up easily.

Lagg-3 was do a Level Flight. I was +- 500m higher than the Lagg-3. The Lagg-3 comes from my 9 o clock side and was around +- 2km away from me I need to do a hard turn with dive to get behind the Lagg-3. Lost speed to +- 300 km/h. Then to go a little lower than the Lagg-3 how the flight record show to not get seen by the Lagg-3 pilot.

Start a small climb where I get the feeling I am close enough to shoot at him.

 

The video start where I am +-1km away from him. I made this video become this pilot made me a favor to fly a unchange Level Flight. I get the feeling I fly a Bf-109 G-2 not a Fw-190 A-3. Why? because a Bf-109 G-2 take the same time to catch up.

 

BTW I not started to dive after him because I was sure he crash anyway.

 

 

Second track : "MIg 3 = Mig 29 OMG RUSSIAN BIAS "

 

FW in a straight horizontal line. Mig 3 diving here and there, going faster.

 

The migs are diving , you're going horizontal, ofc they'll be faster.

 

Then the real funny part :

 

FW is on deck going in a straight fast line. Mig3 behind can't catch up and loses ground.

 

Then the FW ace pilot pushes full rudder (keeping it till the end) , losing 100 km/h + in the process.(Down to 450 or less IAS) Guess what, the Mig 3 catches him.

 

Edit: I actually wonder why the full rudder? Deliberate attempt to slow the plane down and get killed ??? I mean, that full rudder maneuver is what you do to loose speed, so why do it with a Mig3 on your 6 ??

 

It's so disingenuous, it's really hard to believe you guys are serious.

I did not push the full rudder? Not sure what you mean exactly? Did nothing just 100% full throttle. I did not seen any tracers from the enemy guns or heared impact hits. I was thinking there is nobody behind me anymore. But still I hold my unchanged Level Flight with Full Power.

Suddenly the plane started to wobble from any reason and getting unstable?. Not from a hit or a damage? My Engine was fine. This was not the problem. But why the plane get unstable during a Level Flight. I never had this before and something what I never expected.

[SR-F_Winger]

IMHO they should just delete MP, leave only AI germans in and label it "chicken shoot the german". Since that it whats its degenerating towards right now.

 

and this post http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=345869

 

2. This forum is provided by 1C-777 Ltd. as a courtesy and its usage is a privilege and 1C-777 Ltd. reserves the right to ban any member temporarily or permanently for any reason at any time. Any penalties listed below for violations of the rules are guidelines only and forum administration may take additional action if they feel it is warranted. Use of the forum is not connected to usage of the game and access to this forum is not guaranteed to users as a consequence of purchasing the game.

 

17. Spreading false or harmful information about the product is prohibited and will be deleted by forum administration. Claiming ignorance of the subject to justify harmful or obviously untrue info will not be tolerated.

 

18. Claiming that FM is incorrect without the required proof and starting a flame thread based on such claim is prohibited.

The form for an FM claim consists of:

• short but consistent description of the claim;
• link to a reference and to a specific part of such reference that describes correct behaviour of a disputed element/situation;
• game track record and the list of conditions used to recreate disputed element/situation.

Exception to this rule: FM discussion

 

Permanent ban on entry.

[Caudron431]

 

 

 

I did not push the full rudder? Not sure what you mean exactly?

In your video check the instruments. The ball is far to the left side. Could be a bug related to recording though...

[Turban]

Lagg-3 was do a Level Flight. I was +- 500m higher than the Lagg-3. The Lagg-3 comes from my 9 o clock side and was around +- 2km away from me I need to do a hard turn with dive to get behind the Lagg-3. Lost speed to +- 300 km/h. Then to go a little lower than the Lagg-3 how the flight record show to not get seen by the Lagg-3 pilot.

Start a small climb where I get the feeling I am close enough to shoot at him.

 

The video start where I am +-1km away from him. I made this video become this pilot made me a favor to fly a unchange Level Flight. I get the feeling I fly a Bf-109 G-2 not a Fw-190 A-3. Why? because a Bf-109 G-2 take the same time to catch up.

 

BTW I not started to dive after him because I was sure he crash anyway.

 

 

 

I did not push the full rudder? Not sure what you mean exactly? Did nothing just 100% full throttle. I did not seen any tracers from the enemy guns or heared impact hits. I was thinking there is nobody behind me anymore. But still I hold my unchanged Level Flight with Full Power.

Suddenly the plane started to wobble from any reason and getting unstable?. Not from a hit or a damage? My Engine was fine. This was not the problem. But why the plane get unstable during a Level Flight. I never had this before and something what I never expected.

 

 

 

 

Well, I can't see the rudder pedals. In the video.

 

But it actually brings an interesting point. Your rudder is mismanaged pretty much the whole video. You can see the FW is "wiggling is ass" around, and when we get to see the rudder indicator it's always off.

 

Rudder is very important. 

 

Anyway, at the end you got damaged to the rudder and the wing. I don't see the pedals, but if it wasn't you that put the full rudder than it comes from your damaged controls.

 

If you don't see tracers it's probably because afaik they removed tracers on some guns.

 

Anyway, you lost 100+ km/h, that's why the mig caught up with you. Not because it's a Mig 29 in disguise.

 

Regarding the Lagg part, from what you explain there is nothing wrong with the FW catching up at an approcimate 200m/min. You were not going at full speed the whole time, he probably was. 

 

Anyway, don't make such hyperbolic statements unless you really have something to back it up, because so far your claims on the Lagg 3 and Mig 3 seem vastly exagerated if not just plain false ....

Edited April 4, 2016 by Turban

[Turban]

Also... you lowered your flaps at some point when the 2 mig 3 were right behing you ...

Maybe the plane isn't that broken it's just.. not used in the best possible way... 

 

In your video check the instruments. The ball is far to the left side. Could be a bug related to recording though...

 

 

I don't think so. You can see the plane's behavior matches the ball's behavior.

 

One thing I'm wondering about is the representation of the Rudder itself. It never moves. Not sure if it's because it doesn't render in tracks or if it just wasn't used at all.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Turban

[Livai]

In your video check the instruments. The ball is far to the left side. Could be a bug related to recording though...

 

Thanks for the info.

 

It looks for me to be a bug. This was the frist time that I get a problem something like that where the plane is not that damaged where I can expect the wooble thing. Learned something new to change my tactics again.

 

Well, I can't see the rudder pedals. In the video.

 

But it actually brings an interesting point. Your rudder is mismanaged pretty much the whole video. You can see the FW is "wiggling is ass" around, and when we get to see the rudder indicator it's always off.

 

Rudder is very important. 

 

Anyway, at the end you got damaged to the rudder and the wing. I don't see the pedals, but if it wasn't you that put the full rudder than it comes from your damaged controls.

 

acers it's probably becauIf you didn't see tracers it's might be because afaik they removed tracers on some guns.

 

Anyway, you lost 100+ km/h, that's why the mig caught up with you. Not because it's a Mig 29 in disguise.

 

Regarding the Lagg part, from what you explain there is nothing wrong with the FW catching up at an approcimate 200m/min. You were no going at full speed the whole time, he probably was. 

 

Anyway, don't make such hyperbolic unless you really have something to back it up, because so far your claims on the Lagg 3 and Mig 3 seem vastly if not just plain false ....

 

If you take a closer look to the Mig video you see clearly that the Mig-3 lose ground and suddenly for no reason my plane start to wooble and unstable to control not from shoots or some parts break off from my plane. The Mig-3 start to catch up where I have problems to control my plane. The Mig-3 shoot from very close range where I still wonder why my plane wooble and is unstable to control it. Short said I did nothing just a Level Flight with 100% throttle to gain some distance what I everytime do and never had problems with it. 

 

If you not see my rudder or other parts what you like to see is because I play with a Xbox One Elite Controller!

 

And about the Lagg-3 video +- from my feeling it feels to long to catch up if I look at the distance counter from the video. For a Bf-109 G-2 it feels right not for a Focke

[Livai]

Also... you lowered your flaps at some point when the 2 mig 3 were right behing you ... Maybe the plane isn't that broken it's just.. not used in the best possible way...

 

Combat Flaps to decrease the turn time same how the Yak-1 do?  I used it for a short time. Only for the turn. Nothing wrong here. Only my elevator get some hits. BTW the hits from the Mig at this moment did not hit directly were the power from the rounds or bullets is not critical. It looked more that the hits were HE rounds. And did the elevator broken during the hard turn? No! Did the elevator broken during the Level Flight? No again!.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Superghostboy

[DD_Arthur]

Right, but it seems to me that people are running in a circle. FW-190 is terrible to fly after update -> FM is wrong -> My experience is that its very unpleasent now -> Fix bad FM -> ...

But there must be some data that were presented to Han which prompted such change, so first thing imo should be trying to find whatever data were used and their verification. 

 

I think they have made changes to the FM using the best available data.  Seems reasonable.

 However, I think these changes have had unintended consequences for the '190's overall flight model.  I don't think the devs intended to give us these more aggressive, earlier stall characteristics that we now have.

 

Perhaps we can get Han to give it a vigorous work out and when he gets himself into an inverted flat spin he might agree that we have a problem.

 

I really can't believe that the changes they've made were actually intended to give us what we've got at the moment.

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Well, as I'm lurking in the post, I'll stir it up, I mean contribute something.

 

I think the performance may be being judged from two seperate approaches. The first being those who are happy to drop to 300kmh and extend flaps, and then the second being those who wouldn't go so slow except in a pressed knife fight, but prefer higher speed, patient maneuvers and make the most of the high speed control. It seems to me if you favour the first you will dislike the recent change, but if you are the latter it is less of an issue, if any. Problem is I don't think anyone is going to convince or agree with the other! Perhaps just put any complaints in the FM place is the only way forward if you feel there is an issue.

 

Mildly related to this thread: I read a book recently ( that obviously makes me sooooo knowledgeable), in it a German pilot referred to the 109 as being a fine racehorse, but the 190 as a cart horse capable of doing hard work. Also that 190s would attack the bombers whilst 109s flew high cover (late war). Interesting, I thought; and perhaps supports my point that the 'goodness' of the 190 changes depend really on what you expect and how you want to use it.

Good point Chief!

 

Also there's already a thread about the 190 FM here with some aero engineers involved: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21001-fw-190/page-12

 

[DD_Arthur]

Good point Chief!

 

Also there's already a thread about the 190 FM here with some aero engineers involved: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21001-fw-190/page-12

 

 

I think the opinion of some of the "aero engineers" posting in the FM sub-forum should be treated with caution.  Especially the one's who don't own the game.

[Grancesc]

 

...You guys are too excessives and keep talking in hyperboles. It's hard to take you seriously.  Planes have flaws. The FW has flaws too. Sudden stall on abrupt AoA changes is one of them. It's documented and all.

 

Since you won't accept that and just keep calling the current FW a piece of sh*t it's really hard to think you're reasonable and willing to assess things seriously and look beyond your agenda of having a flawless plane....

 

@Turban

Don’t you notice how implausible your statements are? How can you make so unqualified comments without having (virtually) flown the FW before and after the 1.201 update? How can you accuse the majority of the people writing in this thread as being untrustworthy when you haven’t yourself made the slightest contribution to improve the relevant FM? You have no clue of what you speak. [Edited]

 

Knock of the personal comments.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Bearcat

[Turban]

Combat Flaps to decrease the turn time same how the Yak-1 do?  I used it for a short time. Only for the turn. Nothing wrong here. Only my elevator get some hits. BTW the hits from the Mig at this moment did not hit directly were the power from the rounds or bullets is not critical. It looked more that the hits were HE rounds. And did the elevator broken during the hard turn? No! Did the elevator broken during the Level Flight? No again!.

 

Use of flaps on a FW for low speed turn fight ? Probably not the best technique on a FW, no ?

 

You clearly have damage to your vertical stabilizer and wing. What does the elevator have to do with this ? If not from your input, the plane wobbling obviously comes from that.

 

And that is what caused to Mig 3 to get close again after you got away the first time. Not because the mig is too fast.

 

If you don't get proper control because you use an Xbox controller, maybe blame the Xbox controller, not the devs, not the FM. Do you really expect a FW can be flown well with a console controller ? 

 

 

 

 

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

I made this thread cos i was disappointed by the non-ability to escape soviet fighters like before which looked more correct imho

 

but i 'm a bit surprised so many peoples speaks about his stall caracteristic...

Of course it's worse than before but if you stall in a 190, it means that your joystick is not set correctly or that you turn far too much and don't use it properly. Simple as that for me as i don't stall unless being damaged

 

 

 

 

 The Focke is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 G-2 and the Bf-109 G-2 is 10 km/h faster than a Bf-109 F-4. Indeed it feels a like a brick..........

 

G2 faster than F4. LoL. It's the opposite

 

Offline speed tests still shows the same speed as before but something else changed to allow Yak and MiG's to stay on 190 tail's and then shoot it down after a long pursuit.

Can we see informations used to modify 190 FM somewhere on this forum, I'd like to understand...

Edited April 4, 2016 by 64sTomio

[Livai]

Use of flaps on a FW for low speed turn fight ? Probably not the best technique on a FW, no ?

 

You clearly have damage to your vertical stabilizer and wing. What does the elevator have to do with this ? If not from your input, the plane wobbling obviously comes from that.

 

And that is what caused to Mig 3 to get close again after you got away the first time. Not because the mig is too fast.

 

If you don't get proper control because you use an Xbox controller, maybe blame the Xbox controller, not the devs, not the FM. Do you really expect a FW can be flown well with a console controller ? 

 

 

 

 

Let me correct: "  Two Migs get some hits on me no damage effects or side effects are noticeable. I do my Level Flight with 100% Throttle. The Migs shoot and miss me. The Migs lose ground. Still shoot and miss. No impacts are seen on my plane. What I said everytime I not heard impact sounds so I was sure I am out of range. Still continue my Level Flight with 100% Throttle. For a undefined reason my plane start to wooble and is unstable. Something what is not right. My plane was not unstable at the moment where I get the hits and made the hard turn with a dive over 500 km/h. To be correct. Nothing break off my plane only a 20mm hole is to see where the rudder is but not on the rudder itself and the plane fly normal. No more hits are seen or heared on my plane. Suddenly after some time is to see that my plane wooble and is unstable what is unnormal during a simple Level Flight. The Mig catch up open fire from close range hit my vertical stabilizer and wing! The only logic answer is a game bug nothing more.

 

Use Combat Flaps with a dive speed over 500 km/h. There is nothing wrong.

 

I see you take my answer personal and blame me for my Hardware and something else. Give me money and I can go buy better Hardware what you think is needed for this game to have some fun.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Always the same story.

 

A discussion between those who fly the plane mainly and noticed the difference and his influence.

 

Those who fly the plane once per century "no difference for me everything is fine lolilolz learn to fly stop turnfighting".

 

And finally... those who do not even possess the plane ingame, but apparently know it better than everyone. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ze_Hairy

[von_Tom]

 

It'd be nice if folks avoided hyperbole and stuck to quantifiable errors and factual FM reports no matter whether they fly the 190 a lot or not.

 

Enough has been said already - let those that can do the testing and present their findings. Then let the engineers figure out if the FM has a problem and only then can the devs respond.

 

Simples

 

von Tom

[Willy__]

 

Always the same story.

 

A discussion between those who fly the plane mainly and noticed the difference and his influence.

 

Those who fly the plane once per century "no difference for me everything is fine lolilolz learn to fly stop turnfighting".

 

And finally... those who do not even possess the plane ingame, but apparently know it better than everyone. 

 

 

+1

 

Basically a TL;DR of the entire thread.

[BraveSirRobin]

 

Always the same story.

 

A discussion between those who fly the plane mainly and noticed the difference and his influence.

 

Those who fly the plane once per century "no difference for me everything is fine lolilolz learn to fly stop turnfighting".

 

And finally... those who do not even possess the plane ingame, but apparently know it better than everyone. 

 

 

Maybe you should start a FW190 fanboyz forum.  No girlz allowed.

[von_Tom]

 

 

@ Superghostboy

 

Sometimes damage is taken but the effect takes time to show, like a weakened wing that comes off in a high G turn. Maybe that's what happened.

 

von Tom

[Hoots]

Damage can occur some time after it was initially inflicted, you mention a hit near your rudder, this could have caused no immediate damage but as your speed increased the load also did and eventually broke something. To be honest the Devs test this using robot pilots and you're testing it on an open server using an Xbox controller, it's not the most accurate of methods.

 

Edit, sniped by Von Tom

Edited April 4, 2016 by Hoots

[Livai]

Damage can occur some time after it was initially inflicted, you mention a hit near your rudder, this could have caused no immediate damage but as your speed increased the load also did and eventually broke something. To be honest the Devs test this using robot pilots and you're testing it on an open server using an Xbox controller, it's not the most accurate of methods.

 

Edit, sniped by Von Tom

 

It is hard to say what it was at the end. Maybe or maybe not. The 20mm hole was not on the rudder itself (that part that move). It is really hard to say a bug or a damage that needed some time to be noticeable. A Ping problem? Inputlag? A lot Question.

 

On a another sortie my left elevator was shoot down and the wing damaged from a 23mm or 37mm Lagg-3 Cannon. There was no wooble or unstable thing. Even after the dive. I managed to get home and to land. This time I was really damaged. Thats why I was that much wonder from a few not critical hits get unstable after some time and where I get on the another side critical hits I am still stable and are able to fly home. 

 

Sort said I had there more luck.