RLM70 & 71 confusion

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

For some odd reason there are endless of colour variantions for both RLM 70 Schwarzgrün and RLM 71 Dunkelgrün floating around. By that I referr to book scans, colour charts, scale models, and even restored museum pieces, which show up significant colour variations. It's sth bugging me for long so I spend some time searching for some "plausible" refferences and compare them.

 

Here's the Hex-numbers for the colours (links lead to the source):

 

Simmers Paint Shop: RLM70: 292c25

                                  RLM71: 414439

 

Humbrol:                    RLM70: 424437

                                  RLM71: 585743

 

RLM Colour Table:    RLM70: 282c25

                                 RLM71: 414539

 

Taking various refferences such as pictures of restored (or to be restored) machiens (Hendon Stuka, Heinkel) as well as original WW2 images I semi-scientificly sampled my own versions of both RLMs:

 

Self Sampled:          RLM70: 343730

                                RLM71: 46483b

 

Here's what they look like on a sample sheet:

 

Skin viewer and ingame* colour comparison (warning large images):

 

 

 

 

 

*ingame images made with these settings: Preset High, SSAO disabled, HDR enabled, gamma = 0.9, no SweetFX. Skins are without alpha channels.

 

The Simmer's Paint Shop versions are very similar to the RLM Colour Chart and have great colour contrast while both the Humbrol as well as my self sampled version show less contrast and appear more "yellowish".

 

My question and the whole point behind this topic is, which colour variation is more realistic? I know there are great skinners and scale modelers in the comunity that for sure could give helpfull advise concerning colours. If the "winner" is found I'm planning to go over all my skins and set it as a standard, which is why I'm interested in getting it right.

 

PS: If you have other sources or refferences you find suitable feel free to post them.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Original_Uwe]

I think they are all probably spot on.

Paint color varies from batch to batch at a factory level, not to say anything of front line paint shops.

I quite like your mix though, very nice.

EDIT: I like these as well: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_germany.htm

Edited March 23, 2016 by II./JG53_Uwe

[Zargos]

Sorry to add more confusion in your conversation, but ... here is the chart I use for my RLM 70/71 skins :

 

 

That doesn't mean I'm right ! What is the most important to me is that the skin looks "real" in the game.

 

Of course it's important that the color chart is as closer to the reality as possible.

The point is that no one knows what the reality actually was ... Do you know some one who really saw a RLM70 with his eyes and rember it exactly ?

Did some one discovered and old and unused RLM70 bucket ? I don't think so.

All we have are old and aged aircraft parts ... are we sure that more than 60 years had left the color unchanged ?

Reality ?

I should say "realities" because the paintings were certainly manufactured in different worshop, each on using certainly different pigments ... so a given RLM color should change from one manufacturer to another !

Then you also have to take in consideration the effect of the weather conditions on the painting ... rain, abrasion, temperature. So many things that could have changed the original color !

 

Ha ! If only Photoshop had existed at the time ! I would have been so simple : just get the RGB values and that's done !

Well, WWII occured to early for skinners !

Edited March 23, 2016 by UF_Zargos

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Well, WWII occured to early for skinners !

That's quite true

 

I may have forgotten to mention this in the initial post so it might have made a different impression. What I'm looking for is not "the one and only" colours which render everything else as inaccurate. Infact, if I apply my finish to the He-111 shown in this example, colours already appear slightly different.

 

In some cases however I've seen significant variations like turquoise-tint RLM71 and the ingame RLM70, which appears more to be a dark brown/grey rather than green.

 

Of course my goal is to make skins look pretty ingame. "Factory fresh" colours don't look realitsic. I've worked with so many tones of RLM70 and 71 by now that i can't really make my mind up about it, especially the RLM71.

 

Anyway, thx for posting your refferences Uwe & Zargos. WIll check how that goes.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Zargos]

Of course my goal is to make skins look pretty ingame. "Factory fresh" colours don't look realitsic. I've worked with so many tones of RLM70 and 71 by now that i can't really make my mind up about it, especially the RLM71

 

The same for me.

Neverthelss, as far as I'm concerned, the chart I've posted here is the one I'm going to use for my skins to come.

But since I'm curious, I'll certainly try some of the chart proposed by 5tuka and Uwe.

Edited March 23, 2016 by UF_Zargos