How do you guys manage the P-40?

[MrKultteri]

I'm having some issues flying the P-40 as I don't seem to be able to sustain a turn sometimes. It just falls from the sky. This can't be right or I'm doing something wrong so I'm asking you guys if you happen to have any tips or tricks to make full use of the bird

[Asgar]

use the search function please. we had the same topic like two weeks ago.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21271-anybody-find-success-dogfighting-p-40/

 

Please lock

edit: added link

Edited March 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[MrKultteri]

use the search function please. we had the same topic like two weeks ago.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21271-anybody-find-success-dogfighting-p-40/

 

Please lock

 

edit: added link

Well seems that the thread is mostly composed of flight model discussion, not the dogfighting itself

[Asgar]

yes...flight model they also talk about how to fly it and you didn't ask about dog fight you said you can't keep it in the air...do as they say and it will stay in the air

 

or to make it short ugly and honest..."I don't seem to be able to sustain a turn sometimes" I'd say the problem is not the plane but the person sitting behind the stick 

Edited March 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[ACG_pezman]

I'm having some issues flying the P-40 as I don't seem to be able to sustain a turn sometimes. It just falls from the sky. This can't be right or I'm doing something wrong so I'm asking you guys if you happen to have any tips or tricks to make full use of the bird

 

Don't mind Asgar, he is a good guy but very direct. 

 

As to your question, Asgar has a point about not being able to sustain a turn being pilot error.  If you can't sustain the turn you are making then the turn is too hard.  You have to ease up on the elevator until you can regain control.  This is how the P-40 is, being a heavy aircraft with an awful center of gravity, it takes a huge toll on the aircraft's performance.

 

The cure to this is always altitude, or stored energy, because the ailment is low energy.  So you have to take your bird high up and dive onto your targets, the excess energy makes the aircraft a very stable gun platform and removes the horrible nose wobble you see at lower speeds.  This nose wobble is another ailment of the awful COG.  Take care not to move your elevator (or any control surfaces) to drastically when zooming back up to altitude as the P-40's energy retention is not that great.  And the engine being very fragile doesn't help it there either since you have to be very shrewd about when to use your combat and emergency power.

 

Now, with excess energy the P-40 becomes a very capable turn aircraft for one, maybe two, turns only.  So choose wisely when to spend your energy because it takes a long time to get it back, and if your are engaged, then you wont be able to unless your target is unable to fight.  So, this brings us to the inevitable end for most P-40 drivers; low, slow, and on the deck.  This is when most of us really start to flop because the maximum turn performance of the P-40 in this range is just awful as well.  You can't turn tight enough to prevent a shot on you and if you attempt to you will stall in the process which usually leads to death if you are low.

 

So here, in my opinion, the saving grace of the P-40 is it's roll and slow speed.  If you combine the tepid turn rate of the P-40 with it's very good roll rate and it's slow speed, you can make most of your opponents overshoot you quite easily without allowing for a shot on you.  I wouldn't really recommend attempting to shoot at them when they pass because that will eat any energy you have, and the odds of getting a hit are low.  However if the opportunity for a good chance to get a shot does arise, take it, but I would concentrate more on heading to friendly lines and aircraft to get help.

 

Climbing in the P-40 is an affair, so make sure to trim the aircraft out for climb and reduce your radiators to something like 30-40%.  This will reduce drag and allow you to climb a bit better, and in the P-40 every bit helps.  Don't worry about overheating in the climb with the radiators shut partially, the aircraft can cool it's engine and oil very quickly and 30-40% open is way more than enough to provide ample cooling at slower climb speeds.  Besides, that radiator flap is basically an air-brake it's so un-aerodynamic.  

 

It's a tough aircraft to fly but rewarding when done right.

[MrKultteri]

yes...flight model they also talk about how to fly it and you didn't ask about dog fight you said you can't keep it in the air...do as they say and it will stay in the air

 

or to make it short ugly and honest..."I don't seem to be able to sustain a turn sometimes" I'd say the problem is not the plane but the person sitting behind the stick 

Well I never said that it wasnt me being a bad pilot. just asking for advice on how to get the max power at a certain altitude for example mixture settings and also what is the best way to climb it to altitude...

[Asgar]

Don't mind Asgar, he is a good guy but very direct. 

 

yes, i'm very german that way :D 

 

anyway. one last tip from me. remove the gunts.n do' take extra ammo and don't take more than 300liters of fuel. makes the whole thing a lot easier to handle

 

climbing, keep it at 2400 rpm and manage the throttle so your manifold pressure is 40. (the higher you get the higher you can throttle)

Edited March 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[MrKultteri]

Don't mind Asgar, he is a good guy but very direct. 

 

As to your question, Asgar has a point about not being able to sustain a turn being pilot error.  If you can't sustain the turn you are making then the turn is too hard.  You have to ease up on the elevator until you can regain control.  This is how the P-40 is, being a heavy aircraft with an awful center of gravity, it takes a huge toll on the aircraft's performance.

 

The cure to this is always altitude, or stored energy, because the ailment is low energy.  So you have to take your bird high up and dive onto your targets, the excess energy makes the aircraft a very stable gun platform and removes the horrible nose wobble you see at lower speeds.  This nose wobble is another ailment of the awful COG.  Take care not to move your elevator (or any control surfaces) to drastically when zooming back up to altitude as the P-40's energy retention is not that great.  And the engine being very fragile doesn't help it there either since you have to be very shrewd about when to use your combat and emergency power.

 

Now, with excess energy the P-40 becomes a very capable turn aircraft for one, maybe two, turns only.  So choose wisely when to spend your energy because it takes a long time to get it back, and if your are engaged, then you wont be able to unless your target is unable to fight.  So, this brings us to the inevitable end for most P-40 drivers; low, slow, and on the deck.  This is when most of us really start to flop because the maximum turn performance of the P-40 in this range is just awful as well.  You can't turn tight enough to prevent a shot on you and if you attempt to you will stall in the process which usually leads to death if you are low.

 

So here, in my opinion, the saving grace of the P-40 is it's roll and slow speed.  If you combine the tepid turn rate of the P-40 with it's very good roll rate and it's slow speed, you can make most of your opponents overshoot you quite easily without allowing for a shot on you.  I wouldn't really recommend attempting to shoot at them when they pass because that will eat any energy you have, and the odds of getting a hit are low.  However if the opportunity for a good chance to get a shot does arise, take it, but I would concentrate more on heading to friendly lines and aircraft to get help.

 

Climbing in the P-40 is an affair, so make sure to trim the aircraft out for climb and reduce your radiators to something like 30-40%.  This will reduce drag and allow you to climb a bit better, and in the P-40 every bit helps.  Don't worry about overheating in the climb with the radiators shut partially, the aircraft can cool it's engine and oil very quickly and 30-40% open is way more than enough to provide ample cooling at slower climb speeds.  Besides, that radiator flap is basically an air-brake it's so un-aerodynamic.  

 

It's a tough aircraft to fly but rewarding when done right.

Thanks for the tips! One thing though, what is the best possible settings to sustain a climb and do you have any idea on how to adjust the mixture up at different altitudes. I know that you can check the manifold pressure to get teh maximum amount but if you would have something out of memory it would be greatly appreciated

yes, i'm very german that way :D 

 

anyway. one last tip from me. remove the gunts.n do' take extra ammo and don't take more than 300liters of fuel. makes the whole thing a lot easier to handle

 

climbing, keep it at 2400 rpm and manage the throttle so your manifold pressure is 40. (the higher you get the higher you can throttle)

Allright thanks. Haha, well I'm finnish so I should be even more direct but I am not

[Asgar]

i don't think you can get much more direct than German. I don't like you -> Blitzkrieg   

about the mixture. i usually set it to 75% works. you shouldn't have to set anything. because the mixture only has 3 settings in the P-40  cut off (i think), auto lean, auto rich

Edited March 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[ACG_pezman]

Thanks for the tips! One thing though, what is the best possible settings to sustain a climb and do you have any idea on how to adjust the mixture up at different altitudes. I know that you can check the manifold pressure to get teh maximum amount but if you would have something out of memory it would be greatly appreciated

 

yes, i'm very german that way :D 

 

anyway. one last tip from me. remove the gunts.n do' take extra ammo and don't take more than 300liters of fuel. makes the whole thing a lot easier to handle

 

climbing, keep it at 2400 rpm and manage the throttle so your manifold pressure is 40. (the higher you get the higher you can throttle)

^^This.

 

Climbing at 2600RPM (the second green line) isn't a good idea.  The prop is turning to fast and is actually adding drag to your aircraft so ease it up like Asgar said, you will find a sweet spot.  This also applies to dives as well, lower prop RPM for two main reasons:

1. If the prop is turning too fast it will add drag preventing your quickest acceleration in a dive.
2. If the prop is turning, as you dive faster the prop RPM will increase.  This makes your engine's crankshaft turn faster as well, and if you go beyond the RPMs the engine can handle you will blow it.  So lower prop RPM and engine manifold pressure in a dive to prevent blowing your engine.  Increase both carefully when you are pulling out of the dive, throttling up either RPM or manifold pressure to quickly can also blow your engine.  While I'm at it, don't even look at your engine because this can cause it to blow as well.

I don't really mess with the mixture in the P-40 (or any aircraft except the Mig) that much.  A rich mixture is good for cooling so I tend not to mess with it.  A good operating range for the P-40 seems to be around 11,000 feet (3352.8m), this allows you to be very liberal with the throttle while controlling the emergency power with the prop RPM.

 

As far as manifold pressures and RPM go for cruising, I like to run my engine with "max continuous" settings.  I tend to listen to the engine and prop pitch and adjust them to what I feel sounds good, as if I were driving a car (manual transmission).  If my prop RPM is my transmission, then I choose the RPM depending on what I want to do.  If I'm cruising around I'll run about 2250-2500RPM with a manifold pressure of no less than 32, usually around 37, sometimes 39.  It really just depends on what you want.  Just don't put the manifold pressure above 39 and RPM above 2600 unless you are in combat at any altitude. 

 

Other than that just practice with it, you can only get better.

Edited March 20, 2016 by 71st_AH_p3zman

[Jizzo]

4 settings for mixture: off , autolean(cruise fuelsaving) , autorich(setting for normal flight and combat) , fullrich (setting for damaged engine)

[Monostripezebra]

The way BoS modeles flight, weight has a tremendous influence on energy retention.. for me the key to flying the P40 is reducing weight. leave out 2 guns and DON`T take that extra ammo...

 

 

 

just for fun, fly it at extreme low weight to see a different P40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdFeEa-EG8

[ACG_KaiLae]

It doesn't help that BOS models the engine settings too low, either.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The dirty capitalist pigs unfortunately printed Operating Manuals that pleased the Insurance Companies and Flight Schools much more than the Pilots in actual Combat and just translated those into russian.

 

Normal Combat Power allows for 27-29 Seconds for a complete Turn, at 70" that reduces to 18-19 Seconds, Climb improves from ca. 2100ft to far above 3600ft/min, even 4000ft/min at some altitudes and Top Speed at Sea Level raises from barely 480kph to well above 585kph

(which makes it by far the quickest ingame aircraft for 2 minutes)

Power Settings are very important for Handling as well. 

 

Han was actually so nice to provide their sources, which include mainly Training Manuals.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21234-p-40-engine-settings-i-found-them-bit-weird/?p=340319

 

Same Thread, Our Counterpoint to raised official Limits through Combat Experience of 15+5 Minutes at 45"@3000 and WEP of 5 Minutes at 56"@3000

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21234-p-40-engine-settings-i-found-them-bit-weird/?p=340352

 

If the Devs Decide to introduce a combined Combat (15m) + Takeoff Power (5m) of 45" at 3000rpm of 20 Minutes+Recovery and Emergency of 5 Minutes at 56" and 2 Minutes of 70+" the P-40 would suddenly become a very potent aircraft for low altitudes, and most likely not even overpowered. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[BlitzPig_EL]

I think most of us are aware of the letter from Allison to the US Army Air Corps that documents the overboosting of the V1710 by US and Commonwealth forces.

 

They were getting 1500bhp at low levels with the engines being reliable.

 

The peacetime training limits we have currently would never have caused engine failures, PERIOD.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Just because I can...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cloyd]

Troublemaker!

 

[img_gratuitous_arcadey_p-40_pic]

[/img_gratuitous_arcadey_p-40_pic]

Edited March 22, 2016 by Cloyd

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Nice document EL but in many ways it shows the issues regarding the combat and emergency power ratings we have in game. I imagine that pilots of all air-forces broke the rules because they knew 1 minute in emergency wouldn't blow your engine just like driving your car hard don't blow it......these limits were obviously put in place to keep engine overhaul at a manageable level. Many RAF pilots talked about 'going through the gate' and some of them stated they didn't care about limits because they were more concerned about surviving than damaging the engines.

 

I think all aircraft limits we have in game are way too strict but at the same times they're trying to be fair by implementing engine blows after X time in emergency so they cannot be accused of bias etc. I imagine the so called emergency could be run for many minutes in all aircraft but at some point the devs have to have a rule and this is the one they decided on. If an engine would blow up after being run 100% for 1 minute then I doubt the manuals would even allow it.

[Jade_Monkey]

Nice document EL but in many ways it shows the issues regarding the combat and emergency power ratings we have in game. I imagine that pilots of all air-forces broke the rules because they knew 1 minute in emergency wouldn't blow your engine just like driving your car hard don't blow it......these limits were obviously put in place to keep engine overhaul at a manageable level. Many RAF pilots talked about 'going through the gate' and some of them stated they didn't care about limits because they were more concerned about surviving than damaging the engines.

 

I think all aircraft limits we have in game are way too strict but at the same times they're trying to be fair by implementing engine blows after X time in emergency so they cannot be accused of bias etc. I imagine the so called emergency could be run for many minutes in all aircraft but at some point the devs have to have a rule and this is the one they decided on. If an engine would blow up after being run 100% for 1 minute then I doubt the manuals would even allow it.

I completely agree with you, but right now the p40 is just... A turd

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Well currently the P-40 has WEP at 3000 rpm  at any manifold pressure when no document mentions this.

Edited March 22, 2016 by RoflSeal

[BlitzPig_EL]

Troublemaker!

 

[img_gratuitous_arcadey_p-40_pic]

[/img_gratuitous_arcadey_p-40_pic]