Russians instakill !?

[Dutchvdm]

I can't back up the number, but i can imagine that jumping out of a single seat fighter was quiet doable. But i have to say that i was shocked about the numbers of Bomber Command crews. Changes of escaping out of a Lancaster where less then 20%.

 

Grt Martijn

[Wulf]

Well I had another look around the web but I can't find anything to suggest my 80% casualty rate for Fighter Command so I'm at that point of doubting my memory.

 

The best casualty figures for Fighter Command that I can find are total deaths of about 7,400 (Michael Varely).  I don't know what that would represent as a percentage of total FC pilots but probably not 80%.

 

I found some interesting numbers for German day fighter pilots killed.  Sundin and Bergstrom suggest 8,500 killed, 2700 missing and 9700 wounded.  

 

Just as a matter of interest I also note that of the 220 German pilots listed by Mike Spick as having destroyed 60+ enemy aircraft, 112 were listed as killed or missing in action. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I can't back up the number, but i can imagine that jumping out of a single seat fighter was quiet doable. But i have to say that i was shocked about the numbers of Bomber Command crews. Changes of escaping out of a Lancaster where less then 20%.

 

Grt Martijn

 

That's right. Same goes for B17 and B24. Around 13% (that's a number i have actually seen in a source). Those aircraft have been pure deathtraps.

As for the single-seaters, most of them have been "pretty comfortable"(within the circumstances) to get out, the 190 with it's blow-off canopy probably as good as it can get. The only single seater i heard to be difficult to get out is the Airacobra, due to it's side doors. It happened a lot that pilots hit the tail, and got injured or unconscious=dead. But still under 50% as far as i can remember. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

If it only worked for everybody

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

That's right. Same goes for B17 and B24. Around 13% (that's a number i have actually seen in a source). Those aircraft have been pure deathtraps.

As for the single-seaters, most of them have been "pretty comfortable"(within the circumstances) to get out, the 190 with it's blow-off canopy probably as good as it can get. The only single seater i heard to be difficult to get out is the Airacobra, due to it's side doors. It happened a lot that pilots hit the tail, and got injured or unconscious=dead. But still under 50% as far as i can remember. 

What about the Hawker Typhoon?

Were the Bomber guys dead by enemy fire, did they lack parachutes or was there simply no way out for them in time when plummeting from 20 000 ft?

How can the Loss Rate be this high?

 

What was the Loss Rate for Pilots of Il-2, Stuka and other Light Bombers and their Gunners? Il-2 gunners didn't seem to have the longest of Life-Spans. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The bomber problem came from the way crew members were supposed to bail out.

 

While the fighter/attack pilots and gunners had a pretty simple task at hand (open/jettison the cockpit, stand up and let the airflow do the job/throw out the door and roll out for the P-39), bomber crews had to make their way to the nearest escape point. You can imagine how hard it was to walk/crawl towards a tiny hatch inside a juggernaut that is spinning madly, burning like a torch and sometimes with injuries slowing you down.

 

This problem wasn't just an Allied bomber one, if you look at Soviet memoirs you see that most of the time Junkers and Heinkel crews went down with the plane.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

The problem with what this has digressed to try and calculate is that there is just such a huge amount of variables and uncertainty.

[Mac_Messer]

Lots of nonesense here. This is not a MP exclusive bug, so ping and upload speed should have nothing to do with it.

 

Clearly the audio engine has issues with hits, not hearing your plane's but hearing your target's.

I fly 95% of the time offline and once I`m closer than 50m, the sounds of hitting the enemy plane in front of me are of the same volume when my plane gets hit. Made me check my six in panic quite a few times when engaging another plane and not once I was shot at.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I fly 95% of the time offline and once I`m closer than 50m, the sounds of hitting the enemy plane in front of me are of the same volume when my plane gets hit. Made me check my six in panic quite a few times when engaging another plane and not once I was shot at.

Feature for two years.

[Dakpilot]

I fly 95% of the time offline and once I`m closer than 50m, the sounds of hitting the enemy plane in front of me are of the same volume when my plane gets hit. Made me check my six in panic quite a few times when engaging another plane and not once I was shot at.

 

 

It is a known and acknowledged limitation of FMOD sound engine, it has always been that way from the beginning, FMOD has similar issues in other games. It is very widely used

 

Without changing/re-writing the entire sound engine (unlikely) it will remain a 'feature' however some other sound issues are network or hardware/settings related

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[VBF-12_Snake9]

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya: "They keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means."

I remember the first time I saw one of the devs refer to the blinking skins as a feature of the game.  I took a good while to chuckle.  Since then it's been a joke in the squad.  Ahh, I got the CTD feature again.  There goes the invisible/static plane feature.  There goes my wing.  Must of been the sound feature.       

 

They gots lots of features in this game.  

[Wulf]

What about the Hawker Typhoon?

Were the Bomber guys dead by enemy fire, did they lack parachutes or was there simply no way out for them in time when plummeting from 20 000 ft?

How can the Loss Rate be this high?

 

What was the Loss Rate for Pilots of Il-2, Stuka and other Light Bombers and their Gunners? Il-2 gunners didn't seem to have the longest of Life-Spans. 

 

 

Interesting point about the P 39 and Typhoon.  I don't know for a fact but commonsense suggests that the 'doors' on both aircraft must have been able to be jettisoned or alternatively, the top of the canopy must have been able to be jettisoned.  It would have been absolutely beyond the physical capabilities of any pilot to open one of the side doors of either aircraft at speed and then, holding the door open against the slipstream, get himself out of the aircraft.  And of course if that wasn't tough enough, a wounded pilot would have even less chance.  So, I suspect 'jettisonable'.

 

As for bomber crews; many of the combat stations in bomber aircraft of this period couldn't be manned while wearing a chute.  So at the point where the order is given to bail, these guys had to extract themselves from their combat station and then locate and hook-up their chute before making their way to an emergency exit.  As you can imagine, this would be bad enough in a stricken aircraft if the thing remained straight and level, but in a near vertical dive or spinning out of control like a top, on fire or in pitch darkness - well, good frinking luck mate, cos you're going to need it.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Wulf

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The Airacobra door could be jettisoned easily, you just had to move the appropriate lever, give it a light push and poof - it was gone. From what I've read the P-39 was safe to bail out so long as you did everything properly, but (like everything related to its existence) mistakes were costly, and in combat while on fire and wounded it can be hard to follow the little bailout guide step-by-step.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I have the data of every JG in the eastern front including every shot down aircraft, and every dead pilot(mostly from Ospreys). The 20% have been just a guess, i'd say between 10 and 30 to be sure. I didn't work myself through 1000 pages..but when you are reading those articles it becomes obvious, that most pilots survived(at least the first time) when their aircraft got shot. In real life you didn't wait till your wing falls off, or your aircraft disintegrates in mid-air. As soon as they figured that their aircraft is lost anyway, or their windscreen was spilled with oil (just two examples) they made sure to get out of there. And jumping out was pretty "safe" in a 109 or 190..incidents like HJ-Marseille's were pretty rare. Most 109/190 pilots death happened when they were at low alt, to low to jump out (<400m). PK's in their aircraft were a rarity.

Ur data is sweet and useful!! But!!

 

Please refer to it as some data and not DATA

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The Airacobra door could be jettisoned easily, you just had to move the appropriate lever, give it a light push and poof - it was gone. From what I've read the P-39 was safe to bail out so long as you did everything properly, but (like everything related to its existence) mistakes were costly, and in combat while on fire and wounded it can be hard to follow the little bailout guide step-by-step.

 

Pilot's hated it, at least when you look at some biographies..not too long ago i read an article about a Kobra ace, forgot unfortunately which one. He was asked about it's better and worse attributes, and after him the biggest downside was the bailout procedure told about multiple squadron members that got killed and injured in the process..

Edited March 13, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

From memory, Iskrin and Glinka were heavily injured because of it. It was one of those things that worked perfectly straight and level and when you followed the procedure to the last detail. Surprisingly from what I've read the bailout procedure was also safe when in those nasty flat spins. I cannot remember the aircraft now (I believe it was the T-6), pilots said bailing out was more dangerous than crashing with the aircraft because 9/10 times it would kill you with the stabiliser, and if you did eventually somehow manage to get out, if the aircraft was more or less level it would often loop around and hit you on the chute.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Just saw the thread today...

 

I've been flying the A-3, and today got at least 3 instant kills by an La-5 - always the same player who easily learned about my bad technique and lack of awareness ...

 

It has also happened when flying the La-5 instead :-)

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The AP ammo in the ShVAK does make the job easy. One of my first kills was like that too: 109 didn't see me, I positioned myself from below and aimed at the belly at an angle where the pilot would be hit. A short burst and a kill message showed up on the screen.

[Adler_]

The AP ammo in the ShVAK does make the job easy. One of my first kills was like that too: 109 didn't see me, I positioned myself from below and aimed at the belly at an angle where the pilot would be hit. A short burst and a kill message showed up on the screen.

Pretty interesting info! I might give that a try when approaching an Russian plane. See if I can down it faster

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Instakill never happened to me because 110s lose a wing in the first shot lol

[NN_RugbyGoth]

There is a thread in Bugs session for this matter of instakill with a video : http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21499-planes-are-now-hit-and-are-loosing-parts-no-reason/

Soon Madison should add his track