Exit Point

[SqwkHappy]

 The exit point is not required for campaign missions. I verified this by playing another mission being careful to the read the target goals and complete them. I then purposefully skipped the Exit Point (after getting lost, stupid fields all look the same!) and landed with mission success and awards. You lose a few XP for not hitting all the waypoints, but nothing drastic, like 30-60 per waypoint, which nothing on the scale of things.

 

 This post was a result of a failure on my part to read my target goals and instead of attacking bombers, we attacked IL2s which is why the mission ended up a failure and for no other reason.

 

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 Has this been brought up before? I did a quick search and found a few threads but nothing in regard to the Exit Point waypoint.

 

 On flying an Expert difficulty mission in the single player campaign I was returning to base on bingo fuel. I used landmarks to get me a straight line to home base and landed but it didn't count as a landing because I didn't go to the Exit Point first. I find this frustrating because my team was able to shoot down most of the attack planes, as well as the entire fighter escort, but I earned maybe 100 exp for it because I didn't go through the Exit Point before landing at my base.

 

 I have a few choice words for the person who decided I can't have a successful mission without flying through a waypoint first. After landing I parked and realized I received no successful landing message and looked at the map and waypoints and could only sum up because I missed the Exit Point, my flight is basically a failure. I would have taken off, hit it and come back but I had enough fuel for maybe a two minute flight and it would have taken more time than that.

 

 So I did a successful intercept, successful landing at home base, but it's a failed mission. You gotta be kidding me.

Edited February 29, 2016 by [MYK]Mikeypro83

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

how many threads are you going to start on this topic?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/?p=336452

 

its still being tuned..

[Feathered_IV]

I know.  It's a terrible idea, inspired by I don't know what.  Something seen in a console game probably.  The person in charge of SP gameplay has some very misinformed ideas of what is fun.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

So, I'm not an SP guy but you should keep two things in mind. The intent of the campaign was originally to act, in part, as a replacement for a dedicated training program. The other thing is; navigation and waypoints are vital to military aviation. Hitting your outbound waypoints is the difference between linking up with your escorts or avoiding known flak emplacements. Hitting your return waypoints, much of the same and not dying a lonely frozen death after crashing somewhere in the Steppes.

 

As others have said, PWCG is probably more what you are looking for.

[SqwkHappy]

how many threads are you going to start on this topic?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/?p=336452

 

its still being tuned..

 

....That's a question in another thread for devs to read and possibly answer, and be used as a form as user feedback. This thread, that is actually a thread, is for other pilots to discuss. Sorry if I confused you there for a minute. All is well.

Edited February 28, 2016 by [MYK]Mikeypro83

[SqwkHappy]

So, I'm not an SP guy but you should keep two things in mind. The intent of the campaign was originally to act, in part, as a replacement for a dedicated training program. The other thing is; navigation and waypoints are vital to military aviation. Hitting your outbound waypoints is the difference between linking up with your escorts or avoiding known flak emplacements. Hitting your return waypoints, much of the same and not dying a lonely frozen death after crashing somewhere in the Steppes.

 

As others have said, PWCG is probably more what you are looking for.

 

...Forgive me if I'm slow to catch up here. The whole "campaign is meant for new players" is a brand new concept to me because 1. RoF doesn't do that (_except_ the obvious training missions..)  2. IL2 didn't do that.

Every predecessor sim I've played to this current sim has provided campaigns for _everyone_. So it is confusing coming into this with everything seemingly all topsy-turvy. Be gentle with me here.

 

 ..About the waypoints, now I understand all that. But how many times do you think a mission was counted as a failure only because an exit point wasn't followed when a pilot found himself alone and bingo fuel so he straight-lined it home? I'd bet, and I'm not a gambling man, but I'd bet that number is near or at zero..

 

...I'm still not convinced that PWCG is good enough to adopt. I will give it another try, but my first couple attempts were crash  ridden and then load times took no less than five minutes for a mission, and I kept flights and numbers low.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Comparisons with other sims doesn't really work here. They tried something different with this sim. Whether it was a success or not is debatable. (I don't view the campaign/unlocks favorably BTW.) They also tried some gaming elements which didn't go over well at all. Nonetheless, as above, it is used as a training element and hitting the exit point gives you considerably more XP for your effort.

Edited February 28, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Mac_Messer]

I have close to 70 sp sorties, 60 of them on expert difficulty and never had I to hit the Exit Point to complete the mission. From my pov the mission is always completed when the objectives are met and reaching Exit Point. and reaching Exit Point is irrelevant here. Even in escort Bomber missions the objective is to bring them to bomb their targets and TASK COMPLETED sign appears and I can go home without caring about them.

 

This is apparent especially at later stage of the campaign since the Nazis are surrounded and I have to nurse my 109 though routes chosen only by me and not by mission generator which wants me to fly over 2 enemy AFs and into the center of enemy AC patrols.

 

I reach Action Point, enemy spawns, I damage two-three aircraft or destroy some ground targets and always mission is accomplished no matter which route I return.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mac_Messer

[LLv24_Zami]

Mac_Messer is right. No need to go through exit point if you fly straight back to your airfield.

[SqwkHappy]

I have close to 70 sp sorties, 60 of them on expert difficulty and never had I to hit the Exit Point to complete the mission. From my pov the mission is always completed when the objectives are met and reaching Exit Point. and reaching Exit Point is irrelevant here. Even in escort Bomber missions the objective is to bring them to bomb their targets and TASK COMPLETED sign appears and I can go home without caring about them.

...

I reach Action Point, enemy spawns, I damage two-three aircraft or destroy some ground targets and always mission is accomplished no matter which route I return.

 

..Hm. Your experiences make this topic more interesting... In the mission that frustrated me, I reached the action point, and got the message for that. We found fighters, took them out, then found il2s, took most of them out until everybody ran out of ammo, then I stayed back alone to empty my ammo, then straight-lined home bingo fuel, but I never remember receiving a task complete message or anything like that.

 

  Maybe because I did endurance mode instead of short making exit points required? Do you fly endurance or short? (I can't remember if endurance is the word but I'm 80% sure it is.)

 

 This applies to Zami's post as well... Are you guys flying endurance or short?

Edited February 28, 2016 by [MYK]Mikeypro83

[SqwkHappy]

You can blame unlocks for this weird design decision. If you could finish your mission by landing after the initial combat - people would probably land on snow somewhere nearby and be done with it. So restrictions are in place... god forbid someone will cheat and will unlock the locked skins!

 

 I just wanted to reply to this only to point out that I landed at my home base, not in the middle of a farmer's field. I would never advocate a no-effort approach as a success. Also, I don't mind the unlocks myself. I know they're not "realistic" per se, but I like to "earn" stuff, and it's not like the planes don't work without them.

[LLv24_Zami]

..Hm. Your experiences make this topic more interesting... In the mission that frustrated me, I reached the action point, and got the message for that. We found fighters, took them out, then found il2s, took most of them out until everybody ran out of ammo, then I stayed back alone to empty my ammo, then straight-lined home bingo fuel, but I never remember receiving a task complete message or anything like that.

 

  Maybe because I did endurance mode instead of short making exit points required? Do you fly endurance or short? (I can't remember if endurance is the word but I'm 80% sure it is.)

 

 This applies to Zami's post as well... Are you guys flying endurance or short?

Might be a bug. Is it one particular mission or happens every time? 

 

I always fly full missions.

[SqwkHappy]

Might be a bug. Is it one particular mission or happens every time? 

 

I always fly full missions.

 

 I've only had it happen once. Every previous mission landing at home base was enough to get mission complete. I'm about to fire up il2 and find out.

[LLv24_Zami]

 I've only had it happen once. Every previous mission landing at home base was enough to get mission complete. I'm about to fire up il2 and find out.

Ok. Sounds like some kind of bug. Just make a new mission.

[Mac_Messer]

..Hm. Your experiences make this topic more interesting... In the mission that frustrated me, I reached the action point, and got the message for that. We found fighters, took them out, then found il2s, took most of them out until everybody ran out of ammo, then I stayed back alone to empty my ammo, then straight-lined home bingo fuel, but I never remember receiving a task complete message or anything like that.

 

  Maybe because I did endurance mode instead of short making exit points required? Do you fly endurance or short? (I can't remember if endurance is the word but I'm 80% sure it is.)

 

 This applies to Zami's post as well... Are you guys flying endurance or short?

No, I flew only first 10 in short, rest is fulltime missions.

 

If mission objectives aren`t met, you might have a problem with gaining XP. Sometimes even when I don`t do nothing and stich around Action Point, the base calls me back and TASK COMPLETED sign appears. Although sometimes nothing happens.

[SqwkHappy]

..So I flew another mission and this time I did a good look at the briefing and noticed the goal being something like "damage at least two attack planes or down one attack plane for completion."

 

..What I don't remember is what the target goal was for the mission this thread is about. But now that I think about it, we were probably meant to intercept bombers, as our approach height was 4000m. And attack plane intercepts tend to be flown around 500m. So now I conclude we were meant to hit bombers, completely missed them, and failed the mission for that reason.

 

..I humbly beg for forgiveness and have removed my post in questions for devs as I did post in the heat of the frustration of a failed mission I thought I was successful with. It happens. I hope nobody died in the making of this thread.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Takes a big man to admit his mistakes in public. Cheers

[Y-29.Silky]

I remember on several occasions I'd have a very successful mission, reach the Exit Point, then instantly sniped by AAA for 0xp. Pissed me off. Thank God for premium.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I personally don't like the fact you have to fly through the exit point.

 

It should work like the first waypoint i.e. Its optional.

 

Don't get me wrong its brilliant if u want to fly a short mission but landing at base after fulfilling mission criteria without flying through the exit point should also be valid

[LLv24_Zami]

I personally don't like the fact you have to fly through the exit point.

 

It should work like the first waypoint i.e. Its optional.

 

Don't get me wrong its brilliant if u want to fly a short mission but landing at base after fulfilling mission criteria without flying through the exit point should also be valid

Agreed. All that exit/action point stuff should be removed.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

you don't have to; I get with in 6k and then its success mission, then I end. 

[SqwkHappy]

I personally don't like the fact you have to fly through the exit point.

 

It should work like the first waypoint i.e. Its optional.

 

Don't get me wrong its brilliant if u want to fly a short mission but landing at base after fulfilling mission criteria without flying through the exit point should also be valid

 

 

Agreed. All that exit/action point stuff should be removed.

 

 

I've edited the original post to retract my previous statement because new information came to light. As in: I messed up. Exit Point is not required for mission completion.

Edited February 29, 2016 by [MYK]Mikeypro83

[Dakpilot]

I bet the Luftwaffe in operation Bodenplatte wish they had used Entry and Exit points   

 

(referencing the popular 'myth' that 30% were shot down by friendly fire) regardless of the disputed numbers it was a significant amount due to the 'secrecy' and poor communication of flight routes

 

If they just replaced "Action point " with 'target/Objective' and " Exit point " with 'waypoint' it would all seem more reasonable

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LLv24_Zami]

 

If they just replaced "Action point " with 'target/Objective' and " Exit point " with 'waypoint' it would all seem more reasonable

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Agreed, just by naming those differently would be much better.

[Y-29.Silky]

I bet the Luftwaffe in operation Bodenplatte wish they had used Entry and Exit points

Ha, Y-29 was an Exit Point for many of them.

[Mac_Messer]

I remember on several occasions I'd have a very successful mission, reach the Exit Point, then instantly sniped by AAA for 0xp. Pissed me off. Thank God for premium.

Heh, I wanted to unlock everything for my 3 LW fighters. Took me approx. 27 hours to complete, which I did in say 1,5 months time.

 

In some missions flying LW you don`t have to do much besides flying and still get 240EXP.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I had this bite me in the ass today, short mission, intercepted a flight of Emils with my LaGG-3 and co., shot down two of them and crippled the last one enough to forget about it and go home. I'd taken a few hits to the fuel tank in the process, and took too long chasing the last Emil before making it smoke (blame the mission for suggesting me to take the 37mm gun with its 20 bullets, leaving me with the UBS only in the end, never leaving without my ShVAK again). I started heading home, fuel gauge straight in the middle, reduced power not to burn through it, everything fine so far. One minute passes and the fuel gauge is at its last quarter. Another minute and it's 1/8th. I'm barely halfway there when the engine starts coughing. A tree line appears ahead, I try to dodge it and throw the engine controls forward but they respond poorly. I clip a bloody tree and the prop stops - shortly after that I belly land, having to 'cancel mission' with the green 'mission complete, go home' laughing at me.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

I feel you. 

 

Happened to me too many times. 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I still feel just getting to home base should be valid with out going anywhere near exit point. But at the same time the exit point should be there if you want a short mission.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 The exit point is not required for campaign missions. I verified this by playing another mission being careful to the read the target goals and complete them. I then purposefully skipped the Exit Point (after getting lost, stupid fields all look the same!) and landed with mission success and awards. You lose a few XP for not hitting all the waypoints, but nothing drastic, like 30-60 per waypoint, which nothing on the scale of things.

 

 This post was a result of a failure on my part to read my target goals and instead of attacking bombers, we attacked IL2s which is why the mission ended up a failure and for no other reason.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 Has this been brought up before? I did a quick search and found a few threads but nothing in regard to the Exit Point waypoint.

 

 On flying an Expert difficulty mission in the single player campaign I was returning to base on bingo fuel. I used landmarks to get me a straight line to home base and landed but it didn't count as a landing because I didn't go to the Exit Point first. I find this frustrating because my team was able to shoot down most of the attack planes, as well as the entire fighter escort, but I earned maybe 100 exp for it because I didn't go through the Exit Point before landing at my base.

 

 I have a few choice words for the person who decided I can't have a successful mission without flying through a waypoint first. After landing I parked and realized I received no successful landing message and looked at the map and waypoints and could only sum up because I missed the Exit Point, my flight is basically a failure. I would have taken off, hit it and come back but I had enough fuel for maybe a two minute flight and it would have taken more time than that.

 

 So I did a successful intercept, successful landing at home base, but it's a failed mission. You gotta be kidding me.

Don't beat yourself up. I've definitely made some rants around here and eaten some crow shortly thereafter.