I can not fly Russian aircraft ..I need some help !!

[Madigan]

Hey guys, I've been trying for months to give or find a way to start any Russian aircraft optimally anyone knows of a tutorial or directly I can explain how to set the engine of Russian aircraft in order to play ever since the multiplayer mode Soviet side without screwing up ..? Thank you very much and greetings from Valladolid (Spain)

[Guest deleted@50488]

Holla!

 

What exactly do you find difficult?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

You mean on start-up?

 

If it is, you need to set the fuel mixture to 100% before pressing 'E'.

 

Once the engine is done starting, open both radiators (or inner cowl shutters for the La-5 and I-16), make sure propeller pitch is up to 100% for take-off and start taxiing.

[Madigan]

Ok .. thanks guys.

[ACG_pezman]

Russian engines are not that hard to operate.  You never see a combat mode or emergency mode on them because they weren't designed with them.  As such having your engine at 100% throttle and 100% RPM is technically ok.

 

Having said that, just make sure not to overheat your engine and you are golden.  Some aircraft like the La-5 and I-16 have a boost that can add serious power down low, however this would be akin to an emergency mode.  You have to watch out for overheating when using boost because it will happen fast if your speed gets too low.

 

The Mig-3 has a boosted mode when you have 100% throttle, or if you use the mixture, when you have 100% mixture.  The point is, in boosted mode or running boost make sure to watch your engine temps and keep them under control and you will be fine.  In every other Russian aircraft (not speaking about the Il-2 which I haven't flown but twice) just make sure not to overheat the engine, water, or oil.  As long as your engine is cool you are golden.

[NN_Elanion]

Help here perhaps for the Yak ? https://youtu.be/0GsY3GkuS4E?list=PLnyigzFtHeNquPvKFr3mazkk_VK0JpxUw

Good flight.

[Madigan]

Nice Guys..( THX )

[Asgar]

almost correct, 

lean (blue) is fuel saving
blue orange is ideal power   and
rich (orange) is not fuel efficient, not optimal performance but helps cooling down the engine

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

not optimal performance

I don't think that is modeled in the game. I get "perfect" performance with full rich all the way up to the moon

[Asgar]

well, i was explaining how planes work. if the devs don't know that, not my problem   

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Well they said this was modeled back in alpha so I hope it's still the case. I agree though that there's little to no gain for leaning the mixture in the Yak and Lagg from what I've tested (even when flying with "orange-bluish flame setting"). Heat increase is minmal either unless you're down to 65% at below 2000m.

 

The easiest and most efficient way to operate russian aircraft is takeoff with everything at 100%, while climbing reduce RPM and throttle by ~10% (to prevent overheating) and leave cooling rads wide open. In combat you can close rads down to half and increase power for short periods (5min). As long as you manage your temps there's nothing you can do wrong (exceptios are the Mig and La-5 with forsazh injection).

Edited February 25, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Bando]

The color of the exhaust flames is a great way to determine the right mixture.

But I cannot see them in flight (except for the I16).

It's damn difficult for me to see what the instruments are to determine the right mix.

If I take off and climb, what do I watch to set the mixture right?

I did ask this question abaot 5 times on these forums, never got a straight answer. As a result, I'm still struggling or I think "ef it" and leave it at 100%.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Adjusting mixture according to alt - should get max RPMs ? This is how it's work in ROF But in BOS there are diffrent engines and there is proppeler pitch. I lean mixture to reduce fuell consumption not to get best performance - becose is hard to tell looking at gagues.

Edited February 25, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Adjusting mixture according to alt - should get max RPMs ? This is how it's work in ROF But in BOS there are diffrent engines and there is proppeler pitch. I lean mixture to reduce fuell consumption not to get best performance - becose is hard to tell looking at gagues.

That's how it works for fixed pitch propellor planes. On constant speed propellor equiped planes the pilot has to watch the manifold pressure. From what I heared this is onlys the case above 4km in the Yak so leaning it below that altitude is not nessecary.

If I take off and climb, what do I watch to set the mixture right?

Talking about reality 100% is correct. The possible loss of performence is (if present) neglible and you can always use extra cooling. As for the Yak it reaches it's highest topspedeed with 100% mixture below 2000m to it seems to be th most powerfull setting.

[Brano]

Adjusting mixture according to alt - should get max RPMs ? This is how it's work in ROF But in BOS there are diffrent engines and there is proppeler pitch. I lean mixture to reduce fuell consumption not to get best performance - becose is hard to tell looking at gagues.

WW1 planes didn't have superchargers

The rule of exhaust flame color check is nice,but in most cases impossible or very awkward to perform from enclosed cockpit.

 

For Klimov engine, fully forward position means ideal mixture up to 4k.Leaning only above 4k to adjust mixture according to decreasing volume of air = 4k is limit for 2nd supercharger gear to sustain air supply as on ground level.

[Bando]

So, basically, leave the mixture at 100% until 4000 meters of altitude and then slowly lean it.

Is that correct?

And is this for all Russian engines or the Klimov engines only?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yeap i do lean yak mixture starting at 4000 up.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

So, basically, leave the mixture at 100% until 4000 meters of altitude and then slowly lean it.

Is that correct?

And is this for all Russian engines or the Klimov engines only?

 

Klimov only. Mig3 has a way higher "full throttle altitude", however i don't know the precise mixture system in the Mig. In the Mig you basically use 100% like the boost button in the La5..military power. Apart from that, i think 55% are for continuous. However, i don't know if that applies for any altitude.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

In mig-3 you can fly at 100% mixture at all alts and reduce only prop pitch or throttle to prevent entering boosted mode, it's right?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

In mig-3 you can fly at 100% mixture at all alts and reduce only prop pitch or throttle to prevent entering boosted mode, it's right?

 

Probably yes. I was just saying, what i learned from the Technochat. When you make an airstart which is continuos power for all aircraft, the mixture sits on 55%, regardless the altitude. If you pull it forward to 100%, the technochat says "boosted mode". But i guess you can also prevent the so called boosted mode with less pressure/rpm.

[andyw248]

In mig-3 you can fly at 100% mixture at all alts and reduce only prop pitch or throttle to prevent entering boosted mode, it's right?

 

Probably yes. I was just saying, what i learned from the Technochat. When you make an airstart which is continuos power for all aircraft, the mixture sits on 55%, regardless the altitude. If you pull it forward to 100%, the technochat says "boosted mode". But i guess you can also prevent the so called boosted mode with less pressure/rpm.

 

Actually, in the MiG-3 the mixture lever controls boost. For non-boosted operation the mixture lever should be at about half (there is a mark). The idea is somewhat similar to American planes of the era which had mixture settings like "auto rich", "auto lean", etc. So in the MiG for all normal operation you leave mixture at half, and set power with your throttle. If you need boost you push mixture to max.

 

Also, taking off in the MiG is much easier when the mixture lever is in the half position (no boost)

Edited February 25, 2016 by andyw248

[Brano]

So, basically, leave the mixture at 100% until 4000 meters of altitude and then slowly lean it.

Is that correct?

And is this for all Russian engines or the Klimov engines only?

Mikulin AM-35 in MiG has single-stage supercharger with rated altitude of 6000m.

 

In La-5 Shvecov M-82A the rated altitude is:

1st supercharger stage 2060m

2nd supercharger stage 5400m

 

Numbers are not absolute,they will differ a bit +/- depending of outside temperature. As a simple rule,just follow MP,if it starts to drop,change supercharger gear.

[Madigan]

Thanks guys for your explanations ..

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I tested the lagg (plane I fly) at 5k or 6k, if you play with mixture you gain a womping 1kph maybe 2 if you wait a few minutes. Not worth the movement of my hand. Full mix unless you are saving fuel.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Beware mixture implementation is buggy at the moment so things might not work properly. You can cruise in your Lagg or Yak with 0% mixture setting atm (solar power mode engaged?) for ultimate fuel saving

 

Hopefully they'll look at this again in time.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Did some simple test for the lagg tonight. (since it seems the campaign xp is not working)  I tested the mixture effects at five different altitudes.  It seems they have adjusted things a little from last time. 

 

2000m flames always blue

3000m  flames changed red to blue at 96% mixture

4000m flames changed red to blue at 98% mixture

5000m flames changed red to blue at 78% mixture

6000m flames changed red to blue at 60% mixture

 

It is interesting to note that while the color of the flames changed at different altitudes, there was still no improvement in RPMs, Manifold pressure, or top speed.  So from a performance stand point there is no need to adjust the mixture from full rich.  Again this was the lagg I tested.  So unless you just like seeing the pretty colors of the flames, leave it at full mix.  I do not know if this effect was accurate in real life, but it is the way it is modeled currently in this game. 

 

 

Well I'm not a technical person, but I know how to "game the game" I guess you say.     It's been a long assumption that to get the best performance up high out of a WWII plane was too find that point at which the flames change from red to blue.  That is your sweet spot, and you get the most out of the engine in that sweet spot.  In other games you could actually see a difference in RPMs and speed up high, (ROF being one) when you found that sweet spot.  You controlled your engine mixture better up high than your enemy and the fight was yours.  So it was a important tool in other WWII sims.  This one it seems not so much.   

 

Just tested the La5.  It's seems nothing has been done to this plane mixture wise.  It always changes at 88%. 

 

2000m flames changed red to blue at 88% mixture

3000m  flames changed red to blue at 88% mixture

4000m flames changed red to blue at 88% mixture

5000m flames changed red to blue at 88% mixture

6000m flames changed red to blue at 88% mixture

 

Again no performance increase by leaning mixture. 

 

As you can see this is from November 2014.  I have no idea if they have changed anything since then.  My guess is not.  I always leave at full mix.  If someone wants to test now.  Go for it.  I don't think there will be difference.  I could be wrong though.  

[Bando]

I tested the lagg (plane I fly) at 5k or 6k, if you play with mixture you gain a womping 1kph maybe 2 if you wait a few minutes. Not worth the movement of my hand. Full mix unless you are saving fuel.

 

I can live with that!

Thx

[Brano]

There is a problem known since begining in behaviour of Klimov above 4k. Using vysotnyi korektor (russian term for mixture lever) = hight adjuster looks like being automated above 4k.There is almost no difference when you move it from full to min position.No visual effects like smoke from exhaust,vibration of the engine and such. Coupled with supercharger on 2nd stage seemingly keep pumping the air above 4k as it was still at 4k. 

 

 According to A.T.Stepanec book about exploatation of Yak fighters with M-105PF engines,if vysotnyi korektor is not used properly above 4k,the loss of speed can by significant (50-70km/h). Pilots were supposed to observe those visual signs mentioned above = smoke from exhausts,vibration of engine,to utilize vysotnyi korektor and lean fuel volume according decreasing air volume supplied by supercharger. There was a simple procedure to setup correct mixture at high altitudes. Pilot leaned the mixture untill rpms started to oscilate (too lean) and then pushed lever of vysotnyi korektor a bit forward to stabilize rpm and have ideal mixture for given altitude.

 

 If you dont do this,your mixture becomes over riched = more fuel then air (getting worse the higher you climb),which leads to rough running of engine,loss of power (speed),might damage spark plugs and even lead to predetonations.

[Bando]

Thanks Brano. It is not in game implemented, is it?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Thanks Brano. It is not in game implemented, is it?

 

No it isn't. That's also the reason, why the Yak/Lagg starts overperforming over 4k, more and more the higher it flies.

Edited February 26, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

If memory serves me right they were looking into adding pre-detonation to Il-2 sometime. Perhaps that will make things fit in smoother

 

The old Il-2 had that if memory doesn't fail me. Take the Yak-1 to above 3900m and the whole plane shook like a tractor, making a horrible noise and blowing smoke from the exhaust.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

If memory serves me right they were looking into adding pre-detonation to Il-2 sometime. Perhaps that will make things fit in smoother

 

The old Il-2 had that if memory doesn't fail me. Take the Yak-1 to above 3900m and the whole plane shook like a tractor, making a horrible noise and blowing smoke from the exhaust.

 

Yes it has. Since i started 1946 only after BoS, i was shocked the first time i noticed that. Shocked, and at the same time amazed, that such an old sim, which is by a lot of people in here regarded as "inferior to BoS in terms of FM fidelity" has that modeled, why BoS is completely lacking that feature.

[Caudron431]

Yes it has. Since i started 1946 only after BoS, i was shocked the first time i noticed that. Shocked, and at the same time amazed, that such an old sim, which is by a lot of people in here regarded as "inferior to BoS in terms of FM fidelity" has that modeled, why BoS is completely lacking that feature.

But still these people are right when they say, with all the respect IL2 1946 well deserves, that it is really inferior in terms of FM fidelity. So many things are simplified in this (awesome) sim.

In fact there is no reason to be shocked: IL2 was build from the start as a WW2 sim (and has evolved through more than a decade of patches and modifications) while BOS uses a modified WW1 one and this implies that the work on it would follow a different path: all the WW2 related FM features would not be there from the start, and this is why we have to wait until the engine is modified. IL2 BOS BOM engine is still WIP even if it is already advanced.

Eventually, in a very short time, the original IL2 will be completely obsolete. And there won't be no shame in that.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Yak9Micha