Game play:Kill Distribution?

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Just a quick couple of question? In Rise of Flight how are kills and partial kills awarded in Multiplayer.

 

In the original Il2 series it basically came down to the last person that got rounds on the plane got the kill. This led to Shoulder-Shooting and Kill-Stealing and al sorts of ant-social behaviour and arguments!

 

In IL2-CoD depending on the damage caused by an attack Pilots are awarded partial kill percentages. This fostered team work and the problems of SS and KillStealing disapeared over night.

 

How does Rise Of flight deal with the distribution of kills?

 

What are peoples preferences for the New Upcomming Il2-BOS?

 

 

Cheers!

Edited December 17, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[PeterZvan]

Rise of flight has the same issue of last bullets going in before terminal damage are the ones which get the kill.

So if for instance someone is more or less out of control and about to crash - people can still get the last bullet in an get the kill.

I personally than make double sure that most of my kills are proper from the word go - pilot kill or flamer or something.

I would prefer the damage delt attribution of kills -  but I would not like partial kills. I much prefer full kill confirmations but based on who did the most damage.

[Logan]

I would like to see the reverse, guy that gets the bounce/ first shot would get the kill, even if the plane is going down and someone swoops in for a last shot. I bet not so many will cut in front of you in a dogfight to shoot your kill.

The down side would be if your first shot doesn't do much damage or any at all then your kill isn't yours. Maybe there is a way to code it so IF you are first and do damage you get it, if not the next guy that does damage gets it.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Logan

[PeterZvan]

The problem than is that perhaps you are the first guy that gets one or two bullets in which basicly have no effect. Than the guy you attacked shots you down and your team mate than dogfights with him and eventually shoots him down. But the kill would be attributed to you in that case.

I dont see that working out - that is why the person who did the most damage should get the kill.

[Logan]

Agreed, I just hate "the last guy to shoot gets the kill". Its just a bad way to handle it. It might be a code thing I don't know about. That's why most IL2 '46 severs had a no kill stealing policy, mine included. If you were going in for the kill..as he was smoking and going down I would not chase and shoot.

[AdlerAngriff]

That would indeed be a welcome change

 

Also it would be interesting to implement partial kills in the sp. If it wouldn't be too much of a hassle. I remember watching Battle of Britain and one Bitish pilot got like 1/3 of a kill. I also remember in Il2:FB one patch......only kills that were confirmed were recognised. Kills with witnesses.

[AndyJWest]

Actually, in multiplayer at least, it's a bit more complicated. The in-game 'kills' are assigned to the 'last bullet' (as far as I'm aware, anyway), but there is more information than that available to the server, which can be logged for later statistics compilation by external software - where kills can be assigned differently. Take a look at some of the details available on the Syndicate stats for a busy mission yesterday: http://www.stats.syndicatesquadron.org/mission/2001/ The main page gives an overview. but if you look at details for an individual pilot and flight, you can see 'damaged' and 'wounded' events - potentially at least allowing a better scoring system. See this example for what I mean: http://www.stats.syndicatesquadron.org/sortie/239738/

 

 

[=IRFC=Jorri]

In RoF, a kill is determined often when the plane is still in the air, if the plane receives critical; damage (engine breaks, wings fall off). If the plane is shot after this moment, that does not matter for who gets the kill: the one who does the critical damage gets the credit.

 

That  does mean that someone can damage a wing for 9%, and another plane finishes it off, then that last plane will get the kill.

 

But if a third plane then dives after the crashing one and fires more bulets into it, this doesn't matter.

 

In the end, the first guy failed to finish him off, and the second guy succeeded...so somehow the credit is correct.

 

There are also assits, but I'm not sure how they work and I don't think they even appear on the scoreboard.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

What I dislike is being counted as a kill after getting hit and struggling to get the plane back to base for some time, and landing succesfully.It makes you think 'why bother' and just dump the plane for a new one. It fosters an arcade attitude to playing.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

+1

 

Even if they have to push the plane away with a bulldozer, If you've landed safely at a friendly airfield it should only count as  'damaged'  not a  'destroyed!' (Kill)

Edited December 17, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[=69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP]

ROF generates comprehensive stats files, more complex that IL2 1946 and far more complete than Clod. At 69.GIAP we developped a parser to simplify stats collection and analysis for online campaigns.

 

Now if I remember right a kill is awarded when the damage done to the enemy means that it can no longer sustain level flight under its own power. So if you are first to put one bullet in the engine which gives that condition you get awarded the kill even if someone later kills pilot or explodes the plane, however ROF continues tracking the progress of the pilot and plane so enemy might get a kill award but you might land safely in friendly territory.

 

It is then down to the campaign builder to decide how to interpret these results and award points.

 

Here is an example of a mission stats after analysis

 

 

REPORT OF SELECTED RESULTS:

Mission ID = YankeeDoodle12v2-1918.10.21-9:30:0

Lines in mission log: 2354
SETTINGS:
All settings reported in log: OFF

Finish Flight only landed: ON
Map: Main

=-=-=-=-= Players and Their Fates =-=-=-=-=-=
There were 16 player positions.

9 Entente:
=69.GIAP=TUSHKA piloting a Bristol F2B (F.III) for USA landed at 11:05:19 at Souilly airfield
=69.GIAP=OZABO piloting a Bristol F2B (F.III) for USA landed at 09:41:06 at Souilly airfield
=69.GIAP=OZABO piloting an S.E.5a for USA landed at 09:44:00 at Souilly airfield
=69.GIAP=REDVO piloting an S.E.5a for USA landed at 11:07:31 a good way from Gengoult Toul airfield
=69.GIAP=OZABO piloting an S.E.5a for USA did not take off, surviving to fight another day
=69.GIAP=VLADI piloting a Bristol F2B (F.III) for USA did not take off, surviving to fight another day
=69.GIAP=VLADI piloting a Bristol F2B (F.III) for USA landed at 10:16:54 within sight of Sivry
=69.GIAP=OZABO piloting an S.E.5a for USA landed at 11:06:10 at Souilly airfield
=69.GIAP=VLADI as a Bristol F2.B gunner for USA survived safe and sound

7 Central Powers:
LvA***Jojo piloting a Pfalz D.IIIa for Germany landed at 11:20:25 a good way from Entente trenches
LvA***Pod piloting a Halberstadt CL.II 200hp for Germany landed at 11:05:45 at Sivry airfield
LvA***Biggles piloting a Fokker D.VIIF for Germany landed at 11:09:41 at Sivry airfield
LvA***Jumper piloting a Fokker D.VIIF for Germany suffered serious injuries at 11:08:07 at Sivry airfield
JaVA_KEBEN piloting a Fokker D.VIIF for Germany suffered minor injuries at 11:01:56 near Central Powers trenches
LvA**RoodeDuivel piloting a Fokker D.VIIF for Germany landed at 11:04:01 at Sivry airfield
LvA***Van Eyk piloting a Pfalz D.IIIa for Germany landed at 11:21:02 a good way from Entente trenches

=-=-=-=-=-= Shooting and Bombing Accuracy =-=-=-=-=-=
There were 16 player positions.

9 Entente:
pilot =69.GIAP=TUSHKA shot 570 bullets with 0 hits for 0.00% accuracy and dropped 12 bombs with 12 hits for 100.00% accuracy
pilot =69.GIAP=OZABO shot no bullets and dropped no bombs
pilot =69.GIAP=OZABO shot no bullets and carried no bombs
pilot =69.GIAP=REDVO shot 8 bullets with 0 hits for 0.00% accuracy
Note: =69.GIAP=OZABO has no player-mission-end data, so assume no ammo expended
pilot =69.GIAP=OZABO shot no bullets and carried no bombs
Note: =69.GIAP=VLADI has no player-mission-end data, so assume no ammo expended
pilot =69.GIAP=VLADI shot no bullets and dropped no bombs
pilot =69.GIAP=VLADI shot 1391 bullets with 105 hits for 7.55% accuracy and dropped 9 bombs with 9 hits for 100.00% accuracy
pilot =69.GIAP=OZABO shot 471 bullets with 127 hits for 26.96% accuracy
gunner =69.GIAP=VLADI shot 572 bullets with 134 hits for 23.43% accuracy

7 Central Powers:
Note: LvA***Jojo has no player-mission-end data, so assume no ammo expended
pilot LvA***Jojo shot no bullets and carried no bombs
pilot LvA***Pod shot 136 bullets with 25 hits for 18.38% accuracy and dropped 4 bombs with 4 hits for 100.00% accuracy
pilot LvA***Biggles shot 532 bullets with 229 hits for 43.05% accuracy
pilot LvA***Jumper shot 596 bullets with 16 hits for 2.68% accuracy
pilot JaVA_KEBEN shot 652 bullets with 73 hits for 11.20% accuracy
pilot LvA**RoodeDuivel shot 480 bullets with 102 hits for 21.25% accuracy
Note: LvA***Van Eyk has no player-mission-end data, so assume no ammo expended
pilot LvA***Van Eyk shot no bullets and carried no bombs

=-=-=-=-=-= Losses =-=-=-=-=-=
There were 43 losses.

The Entente suffered 16 losses:
10:05:01 a British Wagon_Pass (Wagon)
10:05:22 a British G8 (Train)
10:05:51 a British Wagon_Pass (Wagon)
10:07:44 a British Wagon_Pass (Wagon)
10:07:46 a British Wagon_Pass (Wagon)
10:11:51 a British Wagon_Pass (Wagon)
10:16:49 an American Bristol F2B (F.III) (noname)
10:18:43 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
10:18:43 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
10:19:44 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
10:54:36 an American thornycroftaaa (Vehicle)
11:18:09 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
11:18:31 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
11:19:05 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
11:19:39 a British Leyland (Vehicle)
11:20:15 a British Leyland (Vehicle)

The Central Powers suffered 27 losses:
10:12:22 a German thornycroftaaa (Vehicle)
10:15:14 a German Wagon_PlatformEmptyB (Wagon)
10:15:14 a German Wagon_PlatformEmptyNB (Wagon)
10:15:15 a German Wagon_G8T (Wagon)
10:15:15 a German G8 (Train)
10:15:15 a German Wagon_PlatformMk4 (Wagon)
10:15:39 a German Wagon_PlatformNB (Wagon)
10:15:39 a German Wagon_PlatformA7V (Wagon)
10:15:39 a German Wagon_GondolaNB (Wagon)
10:16:26 a German Wagon_BoxNB (Train)
10:16:26 a German Wagon_BoxNB (Train)
10:16:27 a German Wagon_G8T (Train)
10:16:27 a German G8 (Train)
10:16:49 a German HotchkissAAA (Vehicle)
10:19:58 a German HotchkissAAA (Vehicle)
10:36:33 a German thornycroftaaa (Vehicle)
10:37:50 a German Wagon_BoxNB (Train)
10:37:57 a German thornycroftaaa (Vehicle)
10:37:59 a German Wagon_BoxNB (Train)
10:38:28 a German thornycroftaaa (Vehicle)
10:39:44 a German HotchkissAAA (Vehicle)
10:40:52 a German Drachen (Aerostat)
10:41:54 a German Quad Searchlight (search light)
10:41:54 a German GBR Searchlight (GBR Searchlight)
10:58:59 a German Fokker D.VIIF (noname)
11:03:48 a German Fokker D.VIIF (noname)
11:08:07 a German Fokker D.VIIF (noname)

=-=-=-=-=-= Mission Event Chronology =-=-=-=-=-=
There were 68 Notable events during this mission.
Here are all except the landings by dead pilots:

09:30:00 Mission Start
09:42:26 =69.GIAP=REDVO took off a good way from Pierre Morains airfield
09:42:26 =69.GIAP=REDVO landed at Souilly airfield in friendly territory
09:47:50 LvA***Biggles took off from Sivry airfield
09:47:57 JaVA_KEBEN took off from Sivry airfield
09:48:05 LvA**RoodeDuivel took off from Sivry airfield
09:51:55 LvA***Pod took off from Mars-la-Tour airfield
09:52:07 LvA***Jumper took off from Mars-la-Tour airfield
09:52:38 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA took off from Souilly airfield
09:56:33 =69.GIAP=VLADI took off from Souilly airfield
10:00:19 LvA***Van Eyk took off from Mars-la-Tour airfield
10:00:22 LvA***Jojo took off from Mars-la-Tour airfield
10:03:10 =69.GIAP=OZABO took off from Souilly airfield
10:03:20 =69.GIAP=REDVO took off from Souilly airfield
10:05:01 LvA***Biggles destroyed a Wagon_Pass (Wagon) a good way from Verdun
10:05:22 LvA**RoodeDuivel destroyed a G8 (Train) a good way from Verdun
10:05:51 LvA***Biggles destroyed a Wagon_Pass (Wagon) a good way from Verdun
10:07:44 LvA***Biggles destroyed a Wagon_Pass (Wagon) a good way from Verdun
10:07:46 LvA***Biggles destroyed a Wagon_Pass (Wagon) a good way from Verdun
10:11:51 JaVA_KEBEN destroyed a Wagon_Pass (Wagon) a good way from Verdun
10:12:22 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a thornycroftaaa (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:15:14 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_PlatformEmptyB (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:14 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_PlatformEmptyNB (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:15 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_G8T (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:15 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a G8 (Train) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:15 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_PlatformMk4 (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:39 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_PlatformNB (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:39 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_PlatformA7V (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:15:39 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_GondolaNB (Wagon) a good way from Puxieux
10:16:26 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a Wagon_BoxNB (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:16:26 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a Wagon_BoxNB (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:16:27 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a Wagon_G8T (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:16:27 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a G8 (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:16:49 a HotchkissAAA (Vehicle) was destroyed within sight of Sivry
10:16:49 a HotchkissAAA shot down a Bristol F2B (F.III) (noname) within sight of Sivry
10:16:54 =69.GIAP=VLADI survived a forced/crash landing within sight of Sivry in friendly territory
10:18:43 LvA***Pod destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) within sight of Entente trenches
10:18:43 LvA***Pod destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) within sight of Entente trenches
10:19:44 LvA***Pod destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) within sight of Entente trenches
10:19:58 a TurretBristolF2B_1 destroyed a HotchkissAAA (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:36:33 =69.GIAP=OZABO destroyed a thornycroftaaa (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:37:50 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Wagon_BoxNB (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:37:57 =69.GIAP=OZABO destroyed a thornycroftaaa (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:37:59 =69.GIAP=VLADI destroyed a Wagon_BoxNB (Train) within sight of Sivry
10:38:28 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a thornycroftaaa (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:39:44 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a HotchkissAAA (Vehicle) within sight of Sivry
10:40:52 =69.GIAP=OZABO shot down a Drachen (Aerostat) near Sivry
10:41:54 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a Quad Searchlight (search light) within sight of Sivry
10:41:54 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA destroyed a GBR Searchlight (GBR Searchlight) within sight of Sivry
10:54:36 LvA***Biggles destroyed a thornycroftaaa (Vehicle) at Verdun airfield
10:58:59 a thornycroftaaa shot down a Fokker D.VIIF (noname) near no man's land
11:01:57 JaVA_KEBEN survived a forced/crash landing near Central Powers trenches in neutral territory
11:03:48 a thornycroftaaa shot down a Fokker D.VIIF (noname) at Sivry airfield
11:04:01 LvA**RoodeDuivel survived a forced/crash landing at Sivry airfield in neutral territory
11:05:19 =69.GIAP=TUSHKA landed at Souilly airfield in friendly territory
11:05:45 LvA***Pod landed at Sivry airfield in neutral territory
11:06:10 =69.GIAP=OZABO landed at Souilly airfield in friendly territory
11:07:31 =69.GIAP=REDVO landed a good way from Gengoult Toul airfield in friendly territory
11:08:07 a HotchkissAAA shot down a Fokker D.VIIF (noname) at Sivry airfield
11:08:08 LvA***Jumper survived a forced/crash landing at Sivry airfield in neutral territory
11:09:41 LvA***Biggles landed at Sivry airfield in neutral territory
11:18:09 LvA***Van Eyk destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) a good way from Entente trenches
11:18:31 LvA***Van Eyk destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) a good way from Entente trenches
11:19:05 LvA***Van Eyk destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) a good way from Entente trenches
11:19:39 LvA***Van Eyk destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) a good way from Entente trenches
11:20:15 LvA***Van Eyk destroyed a Leyland (Vehicle) a good way from Entente trenches
11:20:25 LvA***Jojo landed a good way from Entente trenches in enemy territory
11:21:02 LvA***Van Eyk landed a good way from Entente trenches in enemy territory

Report generated in 1.8 seconds

 

If anyone is interested in online campaign building and analysis contact me on www.69.GIAP.com

 

However I can assure you that you can get far more out of ROF stats than you could out of Clod (unless you did a lot of C# programming).  

 

 

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Looks interesting

 

ATAG has made Cod scripts that can extract the damage to individual target components and systems. Which is always fairly interesting combined with the Partial kills. At the end of a mission you can see which parts of the kill were yours!

 

Cheers!

[Hunty]

I prefer the CLOD way were the kills are shared out sort of like a kill assist plus this will eliminate the shoulder shooters. Many times as a boom and zoom pilot ive had kills stolen by some turn fighter that just entered the fight and puts the last round down on the bandit when i have done most of the hard work.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Hunty

[DD_Arthur]

The RoF system I find slightly confusing still.  I have been "shot down" several times in a two seater due to engine damage yet able to fly on.  Whilst flying on I have been attacked again, jumped into the rear gunner seat to fight off my assailant and then been awarded a kill and struggled on to land my 'plane.

 

I think a kill should be awarded when the 'plane crashes with substantial damage rather than a forced landing and if all this information is available as stats within the game then I would hope the game engine would be able to aportion a kill based on who did the most damage.

 

Therefore people should be awarded a complete kill for doing more than, say, 75% of the damage or awarded half a kill along with someone else if the proportions were 60/40.  Someone who manages to register a couple of hits on a flaming plane on it's way down should not receive any credit.

 

Server or kill stats though are something I think we could do without really and would go along way to modifying online behaviour if we just didn't have 'em. 

[Hunty]

This is the new wings leaderboard and it shows how the points are worked out but i dont really fly for the leaderboard because it makes pilots greedy and i just fly for fun.

 

http://stats.newwingstraining.com/pilots/

[PeterZvan]

If a plane is flamed in RoF the kill registration will always be to hte person that flamed the plane - any hits later on dont count. Same goes for pilot kills, engine kills, explosion...

Its just the ones where the wings are more or less gone that get the last bullets in as the kill reciving plan (or if a plane spins in damaged, but not terminally - same goes there - last hits are the ones to whom the kill is registered)

I also really dont like the kills where there was a fuel leak or engine dying before landing or damaging the prop on landing.

Those dont count on the server parser made by Vaal BTW - there each kill has to be proper to count - best ones always are the pilot kills there.

I much preffer the server parser stats by Vaal anyway - much more information there - one can backtrack each sortie...

That is one really cool 3rd party mod which I hope will still work for BoS - or it will acctually be a part of the original install - if any dev is reading this, than please take that into consideration.

And Hunty just linked to the parser - tnx Hunty

[Caudron431]

What I dislike is being counted as a kill after getting hit and struggling to get the plane back to base for some time, and landing succesfully.It makes you think 'why bother' and just dump the plane for a new one. It fosters an arcade attitude to playing.

That's a good remark.

 

Personnaly i think that it is rather stats in general (and of course the greed that comes with)  that fosters an arcade attitude to playing.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Myself and the guys I fly with have always been perplexed at the RoF scoring system.

 

For example, the other night  I flew online in a DH 4 and never got close to the target before being shot down by a direct flak hit.  The mission then ended and I was awarded 200 points (as I recall) for getting shot down...   ?????

[=IRFC=Jorri]

I think you get some points even just for taking off

[BlitzPig_EL]

That is truly bizzare.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

They don't call us the "15 Minuters" for nothing! WOOF! Need to get some recognition!

 

 

Recently I've been focusing on ground attack more than air combat. Hopefully Ground Kills of mission objective will be suitably recognised.

 

It's something that previous IL2 titles have lacked when you pull up the ingame stats page.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[Mormac]

Please help me,how were shoulder shooters handled in the real war.What they need in the game when you put a round into the plane,it lights up with your name on it so nobody else will shoot at it so you will get the kill.I always thought the name of the game was shoot them down and cover your teams behind.Who cares about who gets the kill points.It is war you know.

  Cheers
 

 

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Please help me,how were shoulder shooters handled in the real war.What they need in the game when you put a round into the plane,it lights up with your name on it so nobody else will shoot at it so you will get the kill.I always thought the name of the game was shoot them down and cover your teams behind.Who cares about who gets the kill points.It is war you know.

 

  Cheers

 

 

 

I think you met them out the back door of the Officers Mess and gave them a bunch of fives!

 

Cutting in on another plane would be very dangerous and lead to colisions and friendly fire incidents.

 

In reality I think you'ld be co-ordinating the attacks and generally it was the wingmans job to be the eyes of their flight leader and to look after their back. If as a wingman you were in a better position to take a shot your partner would give you the go ahead and then cover you.

 

Also Partial kills were awarded.

 

In the end it all comes down to team work and if your team meet your objectives it a good day for all.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[Mormac]

Thanks that is what I was thinking

 

  Cheers  Thanks  Skoshi Tiger

[LoneRanger]

I know it's arcadish, but people always think in terms of rewards, especially since online-playing is logged in RoF and hopefully will be in BoS as well:

 

 

What about adding something like a Teammate-Saving-Bonus. e.g. if you clear your buddies six, then you get a bonus for it.

Or if you kill a bomber with bombs still loaded or the bomber has to release bombs and doesn't hit anything while under your fire, you get a bonus.

 

 

Now, I don't want a PopUp-Window like in BF3 or CoDuty, but think about a simple message triggered with "Thanks buddy" or something like that.

It would add to immersion and probably help teamplay.

[352nd_Wheels]

When v4.12m is released it should help with the Kill stealing in IL-2 1946.

 

Shared Kill

 

High Defintion (720):

Wheels

[ST_ami7b5]

In WT you (also) get points for hits, critical hits, kill assist (value depending on damage made IIRC).

Edited January 5, 2013 by Rinzai