It's maybe just me....

[BraveSirRobin]

Reason why the Devs are welcomed better in the Russian forums is maybe, that no Russian aircraft has ever underperformed in this Sim.

 

Actually, I think there are lots of people complaining about the P-40 underperforming.  And before you say that the P-40 isn't Russian, it has a red star painted on the side of it.

[ACG_pezman]

1. We spent 20 bucks for it

2. that's not the point

3. It's the difference in roll rate. IRL, with the 190 you'd win every scissors fight, that was the way to go..in the game, that doesn't work like it should - just one of many possible examples

 

Apart from that. People like you, who game the sim, or at least see it as game with things like "balance factor" etc, will never understand people like me, who don't care how good or bad a certain plane is concerning "game balance". I fly the Lagg, or even the I16 regularly, so i don't need anybody to tell me such nonsense. All that i care about is that all aircraft have the performance, including everything thats imporatant for combat, of their real life counterparts. I don't care if this or that is better. I want them to be like they were in real life. And if we would have the 262 in game, which could slaughter everything else, i would still complain if it wouldn't match at least roughly the real aircraft in terms of performance. 

And the 190 is one of 3 aircraft in this Sim right now, that's way off. (ignoring the fact right now, that no aircraft in the game is behaving like it should in every department - engine limitations and high alt performance)

 

Manu, before I say anything else I want you to know that I respect you as a virtual pilot and a person, especially for all the work you have done for Saturday Night Bomber Flights.  Now, what follows isn't personal so please don't feel like I'm attacking you:

 

All I am saying is that the product we have is about as close as we can get without a new engine for the game.  In order to fix the problems with the 190 it will require a lot of work.  If you change it's climb rate at a range of altitude (the lag zone) you change it's climb rate, in this game and apparently DCS, in every altitude as well.  So, the issue of the 190 climbing too slow from about 1200m - 2700m can be fixed, but the aircraft would have a hugely disproportionate climb rate below 1200m and above 2700m.  Probably on par or better than the F4.  Why?  Because they aren't changing a few values that limit the aircraft, you are changing the aircraft, for lack of a better term.  So, what we have now isn't bias or shitty dev work, it's the compromise that we all talk about: As historically accurate as possible.

 

Also, I don't game this sim.  Do I use flaps in the Yak?  Hell yeah I do.  But I never use them above 300kph because they become counter-active to my energy retention needs.  That and you can turn just as well at those speeds without flaps as you could at slower speeds with flaps.  Still, how am I supposed to shoot down any German aircraft if I don't retain my energy to catch it?

 

 

You couldn't be more far from truth regarding DCS World... which uses a BeT-like FDM just like Il-2 BoS ...

 

Well, now that makes me sadder for DCS because I don't think it can emulate flight like BOS can.  But thank you for the correction, I didn't know that.

 

 

Oh god...here we go again. Posts like these are the real reason why the devs are reclutant to release their sources used for the fw190.

 

 

No, you wouldn't win every scissors fight irl. And..uhm...so just because you are not able to out scissor every opponent online, automatically means that the FMs are broken..yeah, heard that a few times before. "in the game, that doesn't work as it should" Im sorry, but it works just as it should, just like IRL; a yak pilot or a spit pilot who knows what he is doing can make the fw190 overshoot in a scissors fight pretty easily.

 

 

Yes.  This is true about scissoring.  However, let us remember that any person who told Stalin something he didn't want to hear usually died.  So, I believe that they are using official sources for the data, and if these sources are from WWII Soviet Russia, I believe the scientists and engineers would be wary to show any real disparity between their aircraft and the Germans.  Don't believe me?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Rychagov  Go ahead, check it out.  That poor soul tried to tell Stalin the truth.  Anyway, the HP output for the Soviet fighters matches the data that the Russian Museum of Aviation (or something like that) has on record.  If those same engineers preformed the tests on downed German aircraft, they might just fudge the numbers a bit to make things look more like the pilots fault.  If this is true that could explain the exceptional performance we see in Soviet fighters in this game. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

No Russian would argue about German aircraft underperforming. If a Russian finds a thing he doesn't like, i.e. Russian aircraft not performing like he wants, he will rather find a lot of people supporting him, but no one will speak against him, because there is no "other side".

 

Categorically wrong actually, you'd be surprised There is an insane amount of people who speak Russian and like to fly German aircraft, and who are very quick and eager to argue the very same points that are argued here (roll rates, climb rates, max. speeds at altitude vs. sea level vs. in summer vs. in winter, etc. In fact the issue of people flying Soviet aircraft and popping their head way out of the cockpit was solved because of a very long and heated discussion there where a Russian-speaking member make tests using carboad cutouts that resembled the backrest on the Yak-1 and La/GG-5/3.

 

'Tis but an illusion that Russian-speakers are like-minded, my friend. Pop into a Russian server in 1946 for example and you'll often find the Axis team with 14 versus 4 Soviet, I went online today and sneaked past the lines in a Pe-2 while the only other guy playing Soviet was on a La-5 fighting 4 at once. Russian speakers are not little like-minded robots, you know

 

EDIT: P3zman, the Rygachov case is not so black and white. He was demoted and shot not because he called Soviet aircraft flying coffins (which by the way is not something a commander would say, and any Soviet or Russian state or military leader from the Imperial times until now from Suvorov to Zhukov to Stalin would at the very least demote the fellow -  particularly when some parts of the front are getting good results in these so-called coffins, SB notwithstanding), but because of the disastrous performance of the Soviet Air Forces in most fonts, this mostly caused by an inflexibility in the organisational and command chain that prevented less savvy commanders from adapting to the realities of the front, the inability to follow some directives which could have minimised the disaster (like one sent by STAVKA two days before the invasion which directed all regiment commanders to promptly disperse and disguise aircraft to avoid having the air force destroyed on the ground, only implemented partially) and so on. Not saying most of these people were not scapegoats, but it was not a case of upsetting Stalin by saying things but rather upsetting Stalin by seeing defense line after defense line crumble, even in times which were not their fault. For comparison, at around the same time General Konstantin Rokossovsy sent a message to STAVKA saying his supplies were not enough, the troops were demoralised and accused the top brass of putting him in an unfavourable position. The reaction was pretty mild - to put it in one line, Zhukov just told him 'suck it up buttercup' and that was that. Another example is here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Novikov#Second_World_War), Rygachov's long-term successor, who was very stern with both Stalin and Zhukov and managed to put the Soviet Air Forces in a position to fight the Luftwaffe and its allies over Stalingrad.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Lucas_From_Hell

[Bearcat]

I know people have said it before but... A multiplayer lobby and some other things like the ability to sort by game type (Normal vs Expert for example) might help to make things more community oriented. I think that's the barrier to getting people into multiplayer.

I spent tons of time in 1946 MP but with BoS it's been about 95% single player. And I'm loving that just fine. The AI is challenging and less predicable than in the older game. Really made some strides there event if it's quirky sometimes.

 

+1

 

Co-op and a working lobby would do a lot to draw in people and keep the ones who are here engaged.

I really think the next project on this series should involve:

 

1. A lobby

2. Proper co-op mode

3. Full integration of PWCG into the sim

In addition to 10 new planes and a map ofc

 

+2

 

It's a transitional period between two generations.  Les Grognards are getting too old to fill out CFS multiplayer and young people have a severely reduced interest in a type of gaming so academically time-consuming and unforgiving.

An important step would be to include a dynamic persistent multiplayer campaign in the base game.  Relying on players to make their own fun to such an extent simply isn't realistic anymore on top of the commitment already required simply to understand how to operate the aircraft.

You'd have to live in one hell of a vacuum to think that the roll rate on a single aircraft is responsible for a low multiplayer population.

 

I agree.. There are a lot of factors why MP is what it is.. and the devs can only address some of them.. The others are related to just the way things are today.

 

Aaaaaaand this has turned into a discussion about the Fw-190 and DCS

 

Judging by the current advances made in the FM department and elsewhere, there is a pretty big commitment to remedy any parts of the game which were in some way off reality, even if slightly. Now all one needs is a good measure of patience. With that in mind I'm sure each aircraft will slowly get closer and closer to reality.

 

That being said - like in every sim unfortunately - there has been a good amount of poison set aside for the devs lately, which at least to me feels really out of place. People accusing developers of some kind of bias, calling them arrogant/a-holes/incompetent and whatever gives, saying the game is s*** or broken because of minor aspects like FM details on either side... An attitude that makes the average 13 y.o. X-Box kiddo who goes play CoD with the standard salute "whts up u fgts" look like an educated gentleman.

 

Ya think....

 

I think a lot of guys became really disillusioned with the FW 190s really crappy roll-rate (and the frinkin bar) and just abandoned the game in droves.  It had an effect much like the Highland Clearances.

 

LMAO!! The bar... the frikin bar... LMAO!! I had a UBI flashback there for a hot second... 

 

 

I can tell you the reason. First of all, noone apart from the former Soviet states speaks Russian. Meaning, you have all likeminded people together. No Russian would argue about German aircraft underperforming. If a Russian finds a thing he doesn't like, i.e. Russian aircraft not performing like he wants, he will rather find a lot of people supporting him, but no one will speak against him, because there is no "other side".

I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming, or a German plane underperforming.

Whereas in the English Forum we have both sides. People from Eastern Europe, USA or France, also Russians who hang out in both Forums, who fancy Russian planes over German ones due to various reasons. So anytime a FM related topic gets discussed, you have both sides involved, no matter how clear something is wrong (or right), you'll always find that biased people, that they will fight against it, get personal, and the stuff is derailing. 

Reason why the Devs are welcomed better in the Russian forums is maybe, that no Russian aircraft has ever underperformed in this Sim.

 

 Do you realize how condescending that statement is? That is just assuming that every Russian VP (Virtual Pilot) will fly Russian... Why? If you recall Oleg Maddox himself preferred to fly 109s... so that whole notion that Russians prefer to fly Russian and don't care about German aircraft FM issues is just nonsense.

 

It also is a not so veiled attempt to promote that whole "Russian bias" line of reasoning .. and that... is a no fly so please end this line of discussion.

 

I think that if  the devs are welcomed more in the Russian forums (I don't know. I don't speak or read Russian) it is probably more due to language than anything else.

[URUAker]

Well in the Uruguayan night (GMT -3) you have a few days when its almost empty but generally you have maybe 50 - 60 ppl online, some days more some days less (from the very few times i go online). WOL being the most populated server.

I really like the FW, yes I think roll rate should be better, but overall it feels prety much like the A3 from 1946, I think BOS´s A3 retains energy better and accelerates better.

I have been succesfull in the FW fighting every fighter type from the red side, of course FW is more challenging than 109 but i like it that way.

What i mean is, of course there are things to look into, but not so much as to break the game or change the experience

[Dakpilot]

I can tell you the reason. First of all, noone apart from the former Soviet states speaks Russian. Meaning, you have all likeminded people together. No Russian would argue about German aircraft underperforming. If a Russian finds a thing he doesn't like, i.e. Russian aircraft not performing like he wants, he will rather find a lot of people supporting him, but no one will speak against him, because there is no "other side".

I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming, or a German plane underperforming.

Whereas in the English Forum we have both sides. People from Eastern Europe, USA or France, also Russians who hang out in both Forums, who fancy Russian planes over German ones due to various reasons. So anytime a FM related topic gets discussed, you have both sides involved, no matter how clear something is wrong (or right), you'll always find that biased people, that they will fight against it, get personal, and the stuff is derailing. 

Reason why the Devs are welcomed better in the Russian forums is maybe, that no Russian aircraft has ever underperformed in this Sim.

 

Strange that you imply that all Russians must be biased towards Russian aircraft,  and yet no Germans can be biased to German aircraft because all they want is historical accuracy?

 

Seriously you need to get off this Soviet State, likeminded mentality line, it is pretty insulting to lump millions of people together with only one sort  thought as if they were assimilated by the Soviet borg.

 

basically you are saying anyone who speaks a language similar in origin to the country of the Dev's must be as biased as them

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[BraveSirRobin]

I can tell you the reason. First of all, noone apart from the former Soviet states speaks Russian. Meaning, you have all likeminded people together. No Russian would argue about German aircraft underperforming. If a Russian finds a thing he doesn't like, i.e. Russian aircraft not performing like he wants, he will rather find a lot of people supporting him, but no one will speak against him, because there is no "other side".

I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming, or a German plane underperforming.

Whereas in the English Forum we have both sides. People from Eastern Europe, USA or France, also Russians who hang out in both Forums, who fancy Russian planes over German ones due to various reasons. So anytime a FM related topic gets discussed, you have both sides involved, no matter how clear something is wrong (or right), you'll always find that biased people, that they will fight against it, get personal, and the stuff is derailing. 

Reason why the Devs are welcomed better in the Russian forums is maybe, that no Russian aircraft has ever underperformed in this Sim.

 

This looks like an excellent explanation for why your complaining about the German aircraft should be ignored.

[Porkins]

I honestly don't know enough about aircraft performance to tell if the Russian planes are OP, or if the 190 is under performing.

 

But if the Russian aircraft are OP, then I would echo p3zman's point. The devs probably used largely Russian historical research and source material in modeling the performance capabilities of the planes. If so, then it would not surprise me at all if the official docs somewhat overrated Russian performance. You don't have to live in a police state to have some institutional bias influence your research when comparing domestic technology to that of a hated foreign foe. And it just so happens that the folks who did the Russian data did live in a police state where people were killed for reporting bad news. 

[BraveSirRobin]

I honestly don't know enough about aircraft performance to tell if the Russian planes are OP, or if the 190 is under performing.

 

But if the Russian aircraft are OP, then I would echo p3zman's point. The devs probably used largely Russian historical research and source material in modeling the performance capabilities of the planes. If so, then it would not surprise me at all if the official docs somewhat overrated Russian performance. You don't have to live in a police state to have some institutional bias influence your research when comparing domestic technology to that of a hated foreign foe. And it just so happens that the folks who did the Russian data did live in a police state where people were killed for reporting bad news. 

 

That also applies to the data that was used for the German aircraft.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Strange that you imply that all Russians must be biased towards Russian aircraft,  and yet no Germans can be biased to German aircraft because all they want is historical accuracy?

 

Seriously you need to get off this Soviet State, likeminded mentality line, it is pretty insulting to lump millions of people together with only one sort  thought as if they were assimilated by the Soviet borg.

 

basically you are saying anyone who speaks a language similar in origin to the country of the Dev's must be as biased as them

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

This is the 100th time you put words into my mouth i never used, to discredit me. Never getting old.

I have never said all Russians are biased towards Russian aircraft.

I have never said all Germans want historical accuracy.

I have never said that there is no German biased towards German aircraft

I have never "lumped millions together"

I have never said that either the Devs are biased towards their country, nor "anyone" who speaks the language.

Absolutely ludicrous and laughable what you try to imply. Can't get any more obvious that your only goal, with every comment towards me, is that you try with any means and tools to discredit me, making up some huge nonsense. Please, go troll elsewhere. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

Do you realize how condescending that statement is? That is just assuming that every Russian VP (Virtual Pilot) will fly Russian... Why? If you recall Oleg Maddox himself preferred to fly 109s... so that whole notion that Russians prefer to fly Russian and don't care about German aircraft FM issues is just nonsense.   It also is a not so veiled attempt to promote that whole "Russian bias" line of reasoning .. and that... is a no fly so please end this line of discussion.   I think that if  the devs are welcomed more in the Russian forums (I don't know. I don't speak or read Russian) it is probably more due to language than anything else.

WTF is wrong with you people...seriously. Is it so hard to read properly what i write?? I also never said anything of that stuff you are making up right now. I have never said, that Russians only fly Russian aircraft, or nonsense like that. This has absolutely nothing to do with FM issues. Nothing. I am flying the Yak regularly, and i still want it's flaps fixed. I have never said anything about "Russian bias".

But what's obvious, that most of the time people here dismiss issues about Russian FMs, are coming from former Soviet nations (or "Afrika"   )

Please stop for once putting wrong words in my mouth...just read carefully what i am writing. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Actually, I think there are lots of people complaining about the P-40 underperforming.  And before you say that the P-40 isn't Russian, it has a red star painted on the side of it.

Yeah, i opened a topic about it....

Still, it's not a Russian aircraft.

[LukeFF]

This is the 100th time you put words into my mouth i never used, to discredit me. Never getting old.

I have never said all Russians are biased towards Russian aircraft.

I have never said all Germans want historical accuracy.

I have never said that there is no German biased towards German aircraft

I have never "lumped millions together"

I have never said that either the Devs are biased towards their country, nor "anyone" who speaks the language.

Absolutely ludicrous and laughable what you try to imply. Can't get any more obvious that your only goal, with every comment towards me, is that you try with any means and tools to discredit me, making up some huge nonsense. Please, go troll elsewhere.

You really need to reread what you posted above, because you really are coming across strongly with the Russian Bias argument. You are the one, after all, who wrote, "I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming, or a German plane underperforming."

Edited February 10, 2016 by LukeFF

[II./JG77_Manu*]

You really need to reread what you posted above, because you really are coming across strongly with the Russian Bias argument.

No i don't. It's crystal clear that most Russians rather tend to be biased towards their own aircraft, same as majority of US people are biased towards their aircraft, and Germans towards theirs. Probably the same about cars, football teams, and other stuff. If you dismiss that point, you live in a fantasy world. 

 

 

after all, who wrote, "I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming

 

show me a topic in the Russian Forum talking about the problems with the Yak flaps, or the Yak high alt performance, and i am truly amazed (doesn't mean that it's impossible)

 

It was a completely normal assumption i made. After all, if there would be discussions about FMs in German Forum, i am pretty sure there would be almost no people dismissing issues about certain planes. Only normal, that in the Russian one it's the other way round. 

You people all have way to much imagination i guess...

Edited February 10, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[BraveSirRobin]

Yeah, i opened a topic about it....

Still, it's not a Russian aircraft.

 

So the big red star is a ruse?

 

BTW, I have no idea why you think people are putting words in your mouth about Russian bias.  Maybe it's a language thing, but you are clearly saying that you think there is a Russian bias.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

So the big red star is a ruse?

 

BTW, I have no idea why you think people are putting words in your mouth about Russian bias.  Maybe it's a language thing, but you are clearly saying that you think there is a Russian bias.

I can paint a big red star on a Focke Wulf, that doesn't make it a Russian aircraft either. 

Like already explained, there is bias in every country. Getting tired about that discussion

[BlitzPig_EL]

Back on the subject of this post...

 

You want to see a vibrant and well populated multiplayer?

 

Here is what you need:

 

1. A Mission Editor that is easier to use than the developers tool we currently have.   There are a whole lot of people that used to make missions on a regular basis for original IL2 that don't want to deal with the overly complex ME we currently have.

 

2.  The ability to host games on our own machines without the necessity of running a separate dedicated server, and having to get keys, and permission from the dev team to do so.

 

3.  A real game lobby.

 

4. A new theatre of operations.

 

5. Fix the ground handling, the global FM issue with instability, and the stunningly poor implementation of engine limits.

 

6. A more accessible price structure.

 

Cover those bases and you can bring people back to the sim.

 

Ignore them and be happy with the tiny numbers we currently have online. 

[BraveSirRobin]

I can paint a big red star on a Focke Wulf, that doesn't make it a Russian aircraft either. 

Like already explained, there is bias in every country. Getting tired about that discussion

 

But it was flown by Russian pilots.  Why would the game developer possibly be biased against it?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

But it was flown by Russian pilots.  Why would the game developer possibly be biased against it?

Why should the Devs be biased against it? Are they? Not that i know   what are you making up again

[BraveSirRobin]

 Are they? Not that i know   what are you making up again

 

You're the only one here claiming that they're biased.  

[II./JG77_Manu*]

You're the only one here claiming that they're biased.  

please don't tell me you are serious. This gets better and better

before you embarrass yourself even more. Point out where i claimed that the Devs are biased 

Edited February 10, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[BraveSirRobin]

please don't tell me you are serious. This gets better and better

 

Completely serious.  You went on this long rant about how they're biased.  Are you now pretending that that did not happen?

I can tell you the reason. First of all, noone apart from the former Soviet states speaks Russian. Meaning, you have all likeminded people together. No Russian would argue about German aircraft underperforming. If a Russian finds a thing he doesn't like, i.e. Russian aircraft not performing like he wants, he will rather find a lot of people supporting him, but no one will speak against him, because there is no "other side".

I would be amazed, if you find any topic in the Russian forum claiming that a Russian plane is overperforming, or a German plane underperforming.

Whereas in the English Forum we have both sides. People from Eastern Europe, USA or France, also Russians who hang out in both Forums, who fancy Russian planes over German ones due to various reasons. So anytime a FM related topic gets discussed, you have both sides involved, no matter how clear something is wrong (or right), you'll always find that biased people, that they will fight against it, get personal, and the stuff is derailing. 

Reason why the Devs are welcomed better in the Russian forums is maybe, that no Russian aircraft has ever underperformed in this Sim.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Completely serious.  You went on this long rant about how they're biased.  Are you now pretending that that did not happen?

And where did i say again that the Devs are biased?

[BraveSirRobin]

And where did i say again that the Devs are biased?

 

You're claiming that the reason there is no complaining about the Russian aircraft on the Russian forum because they are biased.  Guess what?  The developers aren't complaining about any of the aircraft.  And they happen to be Russian.  It's not a huge logical leap to see that you're claiming that the developer is biased.

Edited February 10, 2016 by BraveSirRobin

[II./JG77_Manu*]

You're claiming that the reason there is no complaining about the Russian aircraft on the Russian forum because they are biased.  Guess what?  The developers aren't complaining about any of the aircraft.  And they happen to be Russian.  It's not a huge logical leap to see that you're claiming that the developer is biased.

I am claiming that the reason there is no complaining about Russian aircraft is, that i think that most Russians are okay with a certain Russian aircraft maybe overperforming a little. Would probably be the same with any other country.

The rest is pure imagination from your wild fantasy.

But i see, Dakpilot had success with his campaign, at least finding one weak-minded character to manipulate, to jump on his train against me, the "Russian-hater". I am out of this discussion, getting boring.

Edited February 10, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[Bando]

Geez guys, a little less tension would be nice.

 

Conversations like these are good, but the tone at the moment is getting this locked in not time for silly reasons IMHO.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Geez guys, a little less tension would be nice.

 

Conversations like these are good, but the tone at the moment is getting this locked in not time for silly reasons IMHO.

You are right mate, apologies. I just don't like it, if i get put words into my mouth i never used, and see them presented as fact to discredit me. 

That's probably the very worst kind of badmouthing and manipulating there is. Normally you'd see that kind of stuff in American election campaign 

[LukeFF]

 

 

Normally you'd see that kind of stuff in American election campaign

 

There you go again... 

[BraveSirRobin]

But i see, Dakpilot had success with his campaign, at least finding one weak-minded character to manipulate, to jump on his train against me, the "Russian-hater". I am out of this discussion, getting boring.

 

The problem here is not Dakpilot.  The problem is logic.  Logic is not your friend.

[Asgar]

he's Bavarian...they hate logic and simply kill it with beer 

[Jade_Monkey]

Someone forgot to take the medication today.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Time to open the rads - the way this engine is going it'll either overheat or lock up pretty soon

 

Anyhow, I think both the sim and its players are in a transitional phase still. New features are getting added and in the meantime players are slowly but surely getting the hang of things. 15 years in the first Il-2 got people used to how things were there (like the ME, HL and its Coops) but soon enough the new possibilities present here (like the browser control for troops experimented with by coconut) will be unravelled. Coops and such are in the pipeline as said by the devs.

[IVJG4-Knight]

I've recently played a little il2 bos after a long break because of performance problems(i don't have the strongest pc either), work ,etc.

 

I've concluded the following :

 

Russian aircraft are not op ? The person that thinks this hasn't played the original il2 . Even the early marks La5s had insane performance. 

 

The damage model for the 20mm cannon on the german fighters(That i think is accurate compared to what i read ) is stronger than the 30mm cannon on the DCS 109.There are rare situations where the opposite is true (1 in 100). 

 

It's just sure there are problems but BOS is the most "balanced" ww2 sim i know.

Edited February 10, 2016 by IVJG4-Knight

[II./JG77_Manu*]

he's Bavarian...they hate logic and simply kill it with beer 

oh dear, that's a broad generalization..anti-Bavarian bias? 

[Asgar]

no, simply some humor to get you guys cooled down a bit

 

 

It's just sure there are problems but BOS is the most "balanced" ww2 sim i know.

 

oxymoron much? ...war was never balanced. if a sim is balanced it's a bad sim

Edited February 10, 2016 by I./JG3_Asgar

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

no, simply some humor to get you guys cooled down a bit

to avoid even further misunderstanding. That was irony 

[Dakpilot]

Manu*, I think people will find there are loads of topics about Yak flaps on the Russian forum, that is where the test in Yak-52 originated from one of those topics.

 

The fact that you will not even consider that even such a topic could exists and wait to be 'amazed' if anyone found one, goes a long way to show your mindset 

 

The Russian forum guys also give the Dev's a hard time from what i have seen of translated posts, they are just not usually filled with transferred political nastiness

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[No145_Bunny]

We fly a brand new coop mission every sunday night (uk time) with 20+ pilots. Join us and see what we are all about! 

[Wulf]

1. We spent 20 bucks for it

2. that's not the point

3. It's the difference in roll rate. IRL, with the 190 you'd win every scissors fight, that was the way to go..in the game, that doesn't work like it should - just one of many possible examples

 

Apart from that. People like you, who game the sim, or at least see it as game with things like "balance factor" etc, will never understand people like me, who don't care how good or bad a certain plane is concerning "game balance". I fly the Lagg, or even the I16 regularly, so i don't need anybody to tell me such nonsense. All that i care about is that all aircraft have the performance, including everything thats imporatant for combat, of their real life counterparts. I don't care if this or that is better. I want them to be like they were in real life. And if we would have the 262 in game, which could slaughter everything else, i would still complain if it wouldn't match at least roughly the real aircraft in terms of performance. 

And the 190 is one of 3 aircraft in this Sim right now, that's way off. (ignoring the fact right now, that no aircraft in the game is behaving like it should in every department - engine limitations and high alt performance)

 

 

I share Manu's sentiments.  Manu is a true sim pilot.

 

Now, for the record, this is what arguably the most experienced (as far as German aircraft are concerned) WW 2 'British' test pilot (Eric Brown) had to say about the 190's roll-rate. 

 

"Decidedly the most impressive feature of the German fighter was its beautifully light ailerons and its extremely high rate of roll. Incredible aileron turns were possible that would have torn the wings from a Bf 109 and badly strained the arm muscles of any Spitfire pilot trying to follow. The aileron maintained their lightness from the stall up to 400 mph (644km/h), although they heavied up above that speed.

 

The elevators proved to be heavy at all speed and particularly so above 350 mph (563 km/h) when they became heavy enough to impose a tactical restriction on the fighter as regards pull-out from low-level dives."

 

Now, fire up the game and fly the various fighters.  What you'll notice is there's nothing at all that's even remotely remarkable about  the 190's rate of roll.  It's okay but not as quick for example as an I-16, (or the La-5 ) even at high (650 k/ph) speeds.  Obviously, I haven't read everything there is to read about the I-16, but nothing I have read about it suggests it had a simply 'amazing' rate of roll.  In fact, from what I've read, the I-16 wasn't even a stand-out in the maneuverability stakes during the Spanish Civil War.  It was noted for its speed, not its maneuverability.  It was out-maneuvered by other fighters during the SCW.

 

It could still perhaps be argued that Russian aircraft entering service in 1940-42 rolled better than their RAF counterparts (of the same period) and in some cases that may well be right- maybe- BUT that doesn't explain why the BoS/BoM Bf 109 rolls almost as well as a 190.   That is completely at odds with what Eric Brown found when he flew these machines and discussed their respective performances with other members of the WW 2 test pilot community.  The Bf 109 was never considered to be a stand-out roller within the RAF establishment - the FW190 was.

 

Now, if this problem relates to the BoS/BoM engine then that is what the devs should have told us.  If that is indeed the case I could accept that even though I wouldn't like it.  But I don't accept that a bunch of computer programmers with an interest in aviation actually know more about the roll rate of the 190 than test pilots like Eric Brown who actually flew the bloody thing.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Wulf

[ACG_pezman]

Just a guess, but I'm pretty sure Manu*'s primary language is not English. Pretty sure what we read and what he meant to write don't line up 100%. I don't think he thinks there is Russian bias, just trying to explain a concept he has. No need for hate.