Ju-88 Discussion/Tips-and-tricks

[Asgar]

they're all internal. EVERY source i've every seen states 28x50 internal. all three racks are within the rear bomb bay

external rack wouldn't work, how are bomb bay doors suposed to open if a rack is blocking them?

Edited February 9, 2016 by I./JG3_Asgar

[Dutchvdm]

I'm not sure about the last two bombs in the second rack. The images seem to be different on this topic. On the image below all the 10 bombs are carried internal.

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by martijnvdm

[Monostripezebra]

   Oddly enough, the Ju 88 has American roots. It was designed by a USA citizen Alfred Gassner and W. H. Evers who had spent time in the United States working for American aircraft manufactures. Both were employed by Junkers to design the new bomber and work was initiated on January 15, 1936. The prototype was scheduled to be completed in nine months and the inaugural flight of the Ju 88V1, which bore the civil registration D-AQEN, was flown on December 21, 1936, by Junkers chief test pilot FlugkapitänKinderman. Upon completion of the prototype, Alfred Gassner returned to the United States and W. H. Evers was pushed to the side and never given any official recognition for his part in the creation of the aircraft.

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Head of design was Zindel. Contrary to the original RLM-design contract, Zindel plans for larger then 50-kg bombs and with a larger wing area of 52m2 and get´s into trouble for that with the Junkers-GD Koppenberg. With Zindels high workload, Koppenberg then contracts Gassner, who is austrian national and Evers, german&american national, both working at Fairchild. Zindel stays head of design and Gassner&Evert share the role of "Typenleiter und Betreuer für die termingerechte Durchführung der Detailkonstruktion" which looks like trouble at first, but they quickly get along with Zindel. There are some wild myths out, that the two "alone constructed the 88 and a ju-85 (which never existed as official project)" but those things are pretty much disproven by the documents and the fact that the design discussion for the Ju-88  also called EF-59 predates their work begin at Junkers.

 

In 1937 the decision is made to make the Ju-88 a divebomber, B. Baade gets made head of typedesing, Ju-87 engineer H. Pohlmann is the responsible for divebreaks and recovery automation while Evers is the responsible for coordination between the Ju-88 team and Pohlmans divebomber team. Gassner and his wife do not return from his christmas holiday in the US that year and later become US-nationals. In 1939 with the start of the Ju-288 programe under Baades lead, Schilling becomes head of type-design for the Ju-88. Everts responsibilities have changes more and more into production and he has changed workplace from construction to the office for serial production. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[Bando]

Sometimes it amazes me how much knowledge there is in the community about these things.

Awesome read.

 

They could easily make a great movie about this. Some story to tell.

 

Thanks Dak and Zeebra.

[xvii-Dietrich]

There are some wild myths out, that the two "alone constructed the 88 and a ju-85 (which never existed as official project)" but those things are pretty much disproven by the documents and the fact that the design discussion for the Ju-88 also called EF-59 predates their work begin at Junkers.

 

So, the Ju 88 design predates the work of Gassner?

 

Gassner and his wife do not return from his christmas holiday in the US that year and later become US-nationals.

 

And then, in any case, Gassner only became American after his work on the project?

 

Hmm... that would be like saying the V2 rockets were built by an American, because von Braun later emigrated there.

 

In light of these arguments, it all seems a bit silly then to claim that the Ju 88 is an American aircraft.

[Dakpilot]

 

So, the Ju 88 design predates the work of Gassner?

 

 

And then, in any case, Gassner only became American after his work on the project?

 

Hmm... that would be like saying the V2 rockets were built by an American, because von Braun later emigrated there.

 

In light of these arguments, it all seems a bit silly then to claim that the Ju 88 is an American aircraft.

 

 

William Heinrich Avers: born 1884 moved to USA  at 17 in 1901 started the first airline in the world in St Petersberg Florida 1913  and was designing/building his own aircraft up to 1912 afterwards working for the Benoist A/C Company in St Louis...That is a fairly big American connection/background to me, was also a great friend of Glen Curtiss

 

Alfred A Glassner: Chief Engineer Fokker Corporation America 1928-31 designer of Fokker F-11 U.S. built Flying boat. Left to be designer at Fairchild Aircraft Company, credited with Fairchild P-91, after leaving Fairchild started own business Glassner Associates .INC also had a career at Duramold Aircraft Company in 30,s USA, again a fairly large U.S. connection

 

They are credited as designers of JU-88 when on secondment to Junkers pre war due to their experience on stressed skin metal aircraft, skills Junkers Company needed, Hugo Junkers died 1935 (think JU-52 design) I am only going on what i have read

 

I never stated the JU-88 was an American aircraft, where I come from when you put a wink after a comment it generally means it is to be taken as a joke and not an absolute fact

 

Fact remains I think they can both be considered fairly American

 

 

 

so after the P-40 we have a second US aircraft in the game  

 

To suggest a JU-88 is American is about as sensible as saying the Spitfire was German, I really cannot understand why so many of you are getting your panties in such a bunch 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Monostripezebra]

William Heinrich Avers: born 1884 moved to USA  at 17 in 1901 started the first airline in the world in St Petersberg Florida 1913  and was designing/building his own aircraft up to 1912 afterwards working for the Benoist A/C Company in St Louis...That is a fairly big American connection/background to me, was also a great friend of Glen Curtiss

 

Alfred A Glassner: Chief Engineer Fokker Corporation America 1928-31 designer of Fokker F-11 U.S. built Flying boat. Left to be designer at Fairchild Aircraft Company, credited with Fairchild P-91, after leaving Fairchild started own business Glassner Associates .INC also had a career at Duramold Aircraft Company in 30,s USA, again a fairly large U.S. connection

 

They are credited as designers of JU-88 when on secondment to Junkers pre war due to their experience on stressed skin metal aircraft, skills Junkers Company needed, Hugo Junkers died 1935 (think JU-52 design) I am only going on what i have read

 

I never stated the JU-88 was an American aircraft, where I come from when you put a wink after a comment it generally means it is to be taken as a joke and not an absolute fact

 

Fact remains I think they can both be considered fairly American

 

 

To suggest a JU-88 is American is about as sensible as saying the Spitfire was German, I really cannot understand why so many of you are getting your panties in such a bunch 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Beyond passport possession, whether someone emigrating is "american" or not is probably a judgement that really depends on the perspective of the judging person and claims to "national fame" more then on the perspective of the judged one.

In the relativly small aviation comunity of the world one can find many crosslinks, also especially between junkers employees and russia and in the end, the facts stand for themselves. Gassner and Evers wouldn´t have been given a headstart in their junkers career if they hadn´t been good engineers as well as if they had been truely considered american by the german authorities, in fact both had the required passport as well as enough heritage to fit the "race bias" but at least in the case of Gassner it seems that exactly that bias attitude of the german authorities seems to have made him an american very quickly. That he simply doesn´t return from christmas holidays in the year 1937 and becomes american has likely not only to do with his dislike for Dessau, but also to do with the what happened in that year: the beginning of fully state lead expropriations leading up to the progroms of ´38. And he wouldn´t have made a career in the US if had not been seen as american there. Evers however chose to stay with the Junkers company.

 

Interesting to note, is that the "stressed metal skin"-experience is not really an explanation for a concretizing overall aircraft design job on a plane, whose general layout had allready been chosen... In fact, Junkers had built straight skinnend aircraft before, which are less well known like the Ju 90 and at the time of Ju-88 design layout the time for the famous "junkers skin" was over. I planly think, it has like been wrongly atributed in the literature because of the iconic nature of the corugated skin.

 

The story behind that famous corrugated skin is one of successful marketing: It starts in WW1, where Junkers was building planes for the harsh frontline conditions where in 1918 extreme airfield conditions and repairability where of high value. The first straight-metal planes with steel alloys where quickly replaced by duraluminum corrugated skin ones: a simple but genius solution to weight, production complexity and repairability.

But Junkers always dreamt of airliners. When after WW1 german aviation was in a downfall, he knew he could not fairly compete in british, french or US-dominated markets. In order to build aircraft, he had to sell aircraft. He could only do so, in new, unxplorered markets (like china for instance) where there was little to no infrastructure and ruggedness and repairability would be the more important sales arguments then speed and fuel efficiency. That is where skin comes in: the F-13 could open previous inexisting markets because it could operate with virtual infrastructure-less airfields and even in the harshest of environments like flying for gold mines in papua new guinea you could repair wrecked planes with simple tools of a blacksmith. The whole concept then stayed with junkers airplanes even a while after it had outlived it´s usefullness, as changing tooling and all that is costly and it had become an image factor. But it is not that there where not othere straight-skinned planes or very advanced low-weight-high-strenght designs, albeit that was the domain where Messerschmidt was the marketleader

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[Asgar]

he, what's wrong with Dessau?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Not to mention the Ju-86, which was regarded a formideable and very modern bomber back in the mid 30s.

 

The reason Junkers kept going with courugated skin on later designs like the Ju-52 was simply to save material (a key thing in a country that suffered from material shortages after losing a war) and worktime. The courugated skin made the hull somewhat stable enought so it didn't require a lot of interiour construction to hold together and leaving more room for the passenger area.

 

There was also the treaty of versaille that prohibited germany to build aircraft exeeding predetermined speed and size limits. Even if the courugated skin took away some speed on Junkers aircraft of the time like the Ju52m3, it didn't really matter because they were not allowed to be faster anyway.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

If ju-88 is American the moon landings were German

Edited February 11, 2016 by [TBC]AeroACE

[Dakpilot]

Not to mention the Ju-86, which was regarded a formideable and very modern bomber back in the mid 30s.

 

The reason Junkers kept going with courugated skin on later designs like the Ju-52 was simply to save material (a key thing in a country that suffered from material shortages after losing a war) and worktime. The courugated skin made the hull somewhat stable enought so it didn't require a lot of interiour construction to hold together and leaving more room for the passenger area.

 

There was also the treaty of versaille that prohibited germany to build aircraft exeeding predetermined speed and size limits. Even if the courugated skin took away some speed on Junkers aircraft of the time like the Ju52m3, it didn't really matter because they were not allowed to be faster anyway.

 

Am sure you did not mean to say the JU-52 was a later design, it pre dated the 86 and was really a continuation of much earlier types, JU 52/1 single engine and its predecessors 

 

while it is very true that it continued in production longer, until fittingly 1952 under licence

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Sure the term "later" was more related to Junkers WW1 creations. After WW1 Hugo Junkers didn't want to design any military aircraft ever again, although after his death in 1933 (apparently that was form my memory, seems I was wrong..) the company, now under new leadership, seeked for military contracts again.

 

Just saying the courugated skin on the Ju-52 was not a sign of lacking development or craftmanship, it's the result of the circumstances under which those machines were designed, constructed and flown. I've had the chance to see 2 Ju52 from close up and while it kind of looks solid from a distance it's a very rough and flimsy construction if seen from close. It's hard to believe those machines could take the stress of civil aviation of that time not to mention flying in combat during WW2.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Dakpilot]

I only got to fly in a JU-52 once but never got the chance to take the controls unfortunately, knew a couple of the pilots quite well, though have lost contact years ago

 

not really sure the new 'leadership' of Junkers were seeking military contracts though...that part of Junkers history is a bit sad

 

• 1933 Nazi Government demands control of Junkers patents and companies under threat of high treason charges 
• 1934 Junkers placed under house arrest at Bayrischell and founds Research Institute Prof. Junkers GmbH.
• 1935 Dies under house arrest during negotiations to cede remaining stock and interests in Junkers.
• 1935 Therese Junkers cedes control of interests to Third Reich at a fraction of their true worth.

 

He was a fascinating man and a true 'engineer' in the purest sense his long difficulties (fights) with Mr Fokker make interesting reading and history

 

Brief overview

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Junkers

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited February 11, 2016 by Dakpilot

[Sokol1]

Actually you can buy a corrugated "Junkers".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POqTFLzmGm0

http://www.rimowa-f13.com/

[Dakpilot]

Interesting, I was not aware of that project, first flight planned for March 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Monostripezebra]

well, to be fair, the rimova F-13 doesn´t share too many features with the original F-13 from different wing shape, modern tail and differen canopylines to the radial engine..  But there are other reproductions in work, too.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Is there any difference in terms of bomb-load compared to the A1 in the A4? 

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Another question: Can the 88 use the 20mm guns that the He-111 can use? 

[Asgar]

not that i'm aware off. unless you're talking about heavy fighter modifications

btw. what do you guys think. Beta this week and release next week?

Edited February 15, 2016 by I./JG3_Asgar

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I wish and hope for a release at the end of this week after a very short beta period.  Given how the developers have stressed the difficulty of modelling this particular aircraft, though, I doubt it will come true.

[Dakpilot]

One thing I always forget about the JU-88 until I see another picture is how 'comfy' the cockpit is

 

 

Looking forward to this one 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Asgar]

well. they mentioned that pretty much everything was done in the Dev blog 2 weeks ago

[ShamrockOneFive]

well. they mentioned that pretty much everything was done in the Dev blog 2 weeks ago

 

They are getting closer but I'm not sure if we'll see it so quickly:

 

"Ju-88 exterior model, flight physics and armament are finished and we are working on cockpit instruments and audio at the moment." and "Today we're assembling Ju 88 A-4 cockpit consisting of 4 crew stations. Required animations are being made right now. We plan to have working quick mission mode for Moscow map by the end of this month and start campaign beta-testing in early March."

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/page-4

 

Sounds like some serious work still ahead. I'd say 3-4 weeks before we're trying out the Ju88A-4. Still exciting

[Asgar]

no. the Ju will come in February. that's what they always said. the Ju has nothing to do with the Map

[Gunsmith86]

Another question: Can the 88 use the 20mm guns that the He-111 can use? 

 

Yes there are two verisons of the A4 with MG FF. One has a fixed forward fireing MG /FF in the gondola which is fired by the pilot this was the most used variant.

 

 

The other has a movable MG FF which can be fired by bombardier or pilot if it is set to a fixed position.

The two MGs on the picture are a fieldmod that i have not seen on any other pictures.

 

 

The MG FF was also used in that way on Ju 88 A13 and A14.

[Monostripezebra]

The other has a movable MG FF which can be fired by bombardier or pilot if it is set to a fixed position.

Ju88 MGFF.jpg

The two MGs on the picture are a fieldmod that i have not seen on any other pictures.

 

Any idea what the thing mounted above those mg is? Through the glasing?

[PapaFlo]

Hi Guys,

Han just postet the unkocks and possible payloads for Ju-88:

Unlock 1: SC 250 wing-mounted bombs

Unlock 2: SC 500 bombs

Unlock 3: SC 1000 bombs

Unlock 4: SC 1800 bomb

Unlock 5: SC 2500 bomb

 

Payload ID = 0

Unlocks Relation = -1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC250-4"

 

Payload ID = 1

Unlocks Relation = 1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC250-6"

 

Payload ID = 2

Unlocks Relation = -1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC50-28"

 

Payload ID = 3

Unlocks Relation = 5,-1,-2,-3,-4

Payload Name = "SC50-44"

 

Payload ID = 4

Unlocks Relation = -1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC250-4 + SC50-28"

 

Payload ID = 5

Unlocks Relation = 1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC250-6 + SC50-28"

 

Payload ID = 6

Unlocks Relation = 2,-1,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC500-4"

 

Payload ID = 7

Unlocks Relation = 12,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC500-4 + SC250-2"

 

Payload ID = 8

Unlocks Relation = 2,-1,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC500-4 + SC50-18"

 

Payload ID = 9

Unlocks Relation = 3,-1,-2,-4,-5

Payload Name = "SC1000-2"

 

Payload ID = 10

Unlocks Relation = 4,-1,-2,-3,-5

Payload Name = "SC1800-1"

 

Payload ID = 11

Unlocks Relation = 34,-1,-2,-5

Payload Name = "SC1800-1 + SC1000-1"

 

Payload ID = 12

Unlocks Relation = -1,-2,-3,-4,-5

Payload Name = "Empty"

 

Original Post can be found here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21045-payloads-list-dependences-unlocks/?do=findComment&comment=333139

 

 

 

Flo

Edited February 15, 2016 by papaflo

[Gunsmith86]

Any idea what the thing mounted above those mg is? Through the glasing?

Thats the MG/FF

[Dutchvdm]

Good to see that i wasn't right about the fueltanks

 

Grt M

[Asgar]

do i see correctly. there is a SC 2500 unlock, but no payload using it. or am i just too stupid to see it

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Unfortunately devs ignored all cool forward firing kits or modifications that the Ju88 used to have.

 

Big sad mistake

[ShamrockOneFive]

Unfortunately devs ignored all cool forward firing kits or modifications that the Ju88 used to have.

 

Big sad mistake

 

Were any of those kits used during the Battle of Moscow?

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Or the Battle of Stalingrad for that matter, given that the 88 serves for both modules.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Silas

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Sucks that we aren't getting any extra cool modifications  

[xvii-Dietrich]

Hi Guys,

Han just postet the unkocks and possible payloads for Ju-88:

{...}

 

 

That list was a bit difficult to take in. I've reformatted it to make it easier... at least for me.

 

  #0 -- 4 x SC250

  #1 -- 6 x SC250

  #2 -- 28 x SC50

  #3 -- 44 x SC50

  #4 -- 4 x SC250  +  28 x SC50     <--- Equivalent of Ju 88 A-1 max load in CloD

  #5 -- 6 x SC250  +  28 x SC50

  #6 -- 4 x SC500

  #7 -- 4 x SC500  +  2 x SC250

  #8 -- 4 x SC500  +  18 x SC50

  #9 -- 2 x SC1000

#10 -- 1 x SC1800

#11 -- 1 x SC1800  +  1 x SC1000

#12 -- Empty

 

 

Notable is the lack of SD bombs (i.e. armour-piercing). I also hope that MG upgrades, photo-recon cameras and extra fuel-tanks will also be options.

 

Although #11 is impressive, #5 and #7 have more kgs of explosive (using nominal weights, that is).

 

#3 and #5, in the right circumstances, could spread a lot of damage over so many targets.

Edited February 15, 2016 by xvii-Dietrich

[Dutchvdm]

You're forgetting payload 0. 4x 250 .

 

Grt M

[[DBS]El_Marta]

I hope we get a StuVi.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I think I can make out a StuVi on the DD photos

[Asgar]

nah, don't think so. Han denied it when i asked him a couple weeks ago. he said the Ju-88 will get only Revi

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm curious to see how will the Junkers handle strike, tactical level and dive-bombing tasks in crowded environments. It was no slouch by any means and it has quite a few guns to point around, but it's one hell of a big target for both fighters and AAA and it's decidedly less manoeuvrable than the Bf-110.