Going back to old IL-2 Sturmovik

[Lt_Tomonaga]

And here is my courteous, without disrespect, comment for the design team.

You guys are charging a ton of money for a flight sim (and its modules) that's amazing in visuals, but is years away from becoming an enjoyable, complete package.

How can I spend $70 on the next "great expansion" if I don't believe in the product.

Will wait a few years and come back again. I know things will change by then.
 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lt_Tomonaga

[LLv24_Zami]

Life is full of choices.

 

I think this product is very enjoyable, in fact so much that it takes all my simming time. Definitely worth the money compared to the time I have spent with it. But both opinions are just as right.

[Finkeren]

I sometimes miss the endless choices and great semi-dynamic careers of IL2-1946.

 

But now, whenever I go back, I just can't enjoy it anymore. It's too simplistic, too ugly, too scripted in AI, FM and DM. 

 

We'll never have the sheer amount of content of the original IL2 for this sim, but content-wise we're already well under way, and this is absolutely your best sim-option if you're into realistic WW2 flying - no contest.

 

I don't begrudge people who decide against BoS/BoM, I get it's not perfect and it's doesn't have something for everyone, but don't pretend you have better options elsewhere.

[SharpeXB]

I like how people feel the need to post online about how they can never be satisfied by anything.

 

Good bye and good riddance. You overestimate your importance. Posting statements like you've done here doesn't help anyone or further the hobby.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

I accept your point of view while I dont agree with you. 

 

I also think the game takes a hefty price HOWEVER as we all know this is a small community and to keep the sim games coming I am ready to pay the price. I also think that the price is alright because the devs communicate a lot, are overall nice guys from what I ave seen, have a passion for their games and do an awesome job with their products and I have had a ton of fun and met awesome people that I love to play with via the game 6./ZG26 = <3

 

We also get a lot of sales and I dont think it will take a long time until BOM gets on sale since its almost completed

Edited February 6, 2016 by 6./ZG26_McKvack

[Feathered_IV]

Giving your reason when leaving is good, as it can often provide valuable customer feedback.  I hope you will continue to enjoy the old Il-2 and come back when you feel the time is right.

[216th_Peterla]

I respect opinion of the OP but I must disagree. Is the most enjoyable sim I ever played. And is cheap. That's my opinion.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Peterla

[Bussard_x]

This sim is generations ahead of the original IL-2 back from 2001. But yes I liked the campaign set up in the original.

[andyw248]

Same here. For me immersion is a combination of flight model, scenery, weather engine, sounds, damage modeling, and - more than anything - different planes exhibiting different sensations of flying. Haven't really found that elsewhere.

[Danziger]

I think there would be a lot more content if they were more open to modders and third party content. Look at all the missions and SP campaign material that has come about. Not to mention the maps. Just imagine the tanks and planes that could be added. Or cockpits to make AI planes flyable.

[Rjel]

The Internet. Ain't it grand?

[andyw248]

 

 

I think there would be a lot more content if they were more open to modders and third party content.

 

Well, x-plane for example has a very open modding concept but what can you do if the foundation is lacking some essential features? For example, in BoS/BoM we have:

• Excellent ground handling (even though some people think there are issues, at least the sim itself does have a dedicated ground handling model, and any issues are treated as bugs that may or may not be fixed)
• Universal scenery modeling (this goes beyond the concept of having some generic modeling that covers the world, and then some 3rd parties coming in to model a few airports with better detail. In BoS/BoM we have both - details at the airstrips, and excellent scenery when we fly low anywhere)

[CUJO_1970]

Sorry, but there is no going back.

 

People forget that it took many years and tremendous community input to make the old IL/2 what it is today. This dev. team is moving at a good pace, implementing a consistent stream of new content.

 

This title has a way to go...but I'm here to stay.

[BMW801]

I have had many,many hours of entertainment and escape with this sim.

I love history, epecially Eastern front, and this sim has been immersive and fun, especially with PWCG.

I have more than received my money's worth with the number of hours I have enjoyed this product.

Especially when you think about how much it costs just to take your family to the movies these days

[ShamrockOneFive]

Sometimes it seems dispassionate but I have to count my hours of enjoyment with the title versus the price I've paid. At this point I'm down in the neighborhood of $1/hr for BoS and BoM... and BoM isn't even out yet. Or I can go to the movies for $7/hr (typical movie being $14 and two hours long). So the price does seem high but the replayability is pretty much infinite at this point.

 

People are free to do what they like but since BoS came out I've spent less and less time with IL-2 1946. It was a great thing that held my interest for essentially a decade but this is definitely next gen in basically every way. The content depth is less right now but I have hopes for the future and I'm willing to spend some more money as time goes on as long as the content quality continues to hold and increase.

[Dakpilot]

I really do think people forget how much the original IL-2 cost back in the day when compared to inflation adjusted prices now

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[BlitzPig_EL]

True Dak, but even then, the original seemed like a bargain,  whereas BoS/BoM just seems too expensive, at least to me.

 

The original was very compelling as it was just so much better than anything that came before it.  BoS/BoM just isn't grabbing me the same way.

I try to like it, but when I turn on the computer for some fun time, BoS/BoM is not what I go to first, or second, or even third now, unlike IL2 where I couldn't wait to get home from work to play it till the wee hours on a work night.  

I wish it were different, as I truly miss "flying",  and I wish I had a better explanation than I have for my lack of desire to play it, but there it is.

 

So I can sympathize with the OP.   I too hope that in time this becomes "the one", but for now, well, I'll just keep checking in and see how it goes.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

That sounds more like something with you rather than the sim.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Silas

[Guest deleted@1562]

BoS is way beyond IL2 in the sim and visuals department. To me it feels as this sim is becoming more and more like IL2 gameplay wise -  the only feature I'm missing now is an easy way to have coop missions.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

And here is my courteous, without disrespect, comment for the design team.

 

You guys are charging a ton of money for a flight sim (and its modules) that's amazing in visuals, but is years away from becoming an enjoyable, complete package.

 

How can I spend $70 on the next "great expansion" if I don't believe in the product.

 

Will wait a few years and come back again. I know things will change by then.

 

 

I don't agree that BoS/BoM is too expensive. So far i spent around 20ct/h, which will decline even more in the future. I know only a handful games, let alone media overall, that gave me that good of a price/performance.

Years away from becoming enjoyable? I think the most fun you can get out of any Sim, regardless the Genre, are role-play style dynamic multiplayer campaigns. I am participating in those, and have participated in those in a lot of different sims. Assetto Corsa, Arma3, RoF, 1946, CloD, BoS, so quite a variation. And while i have issues with all of these games (well maybe apart from Arma, which is - regarding Infantry simulation - pretty much flawless), i somehow enjoy BoS the most. Don't ask me why, but that's how it is. And i know quite a few other "sim devotees" who feel the same. So i think "years away from becoming enjoyable" is very very subjective.

Edited February 7, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm quite surprised people actually think 50-70 dollars for a game is somehow a lot these days. I had to pay 30 for a (like new) second hand copy of Sonic All-Stars racing for PS3, an old console, and I don't regret it - it's easy mindless fun. All the new games for PC or consoles (from legacy ones like the PS3 and XB360 to the PS4 and XB1) are priced in the same range or higher, and as most people say it's cheaper than dinner at most restaurants except for fast-food chains and the local Turkish Pizza-Kebab place that charges 8 dollars for the best pizza you'll ever eat (those in Sweden will understand ).

[BlitzPig_EL]

But it's not $50 to $70 for the game...

 

It's $80 for each new bit of content.  In essence they are charging a Gold Release Level price for what really are just DLC expansion packs.  To have the game totally up to date would be $160, and half of that is still just a release candidate,, and the other half is so limited in scope, and fraught with issues that there is no fun in it.

 

Oh well, I see this thread got moved to a place of obscurity, no use even trying to give constructive input.

[LLv24_Zami]

But it's not $50 to $70 for the game...

 

It's $80 for each new bit of content.  In essence they are charging a Gold Release Level price for what really are just DLC expansion packs.  To have the game totally up to date would be $160, and half of that is still just a release candidate,, and the other half is so limited in scope, and fraught with issues that there is no fun in it.

 

Oh well, I see this thread got moved to a place of obscurity, no use even trying to give constructive input.

No, that is valid point if you are not interested of playing it. 

 

I don`t even know how much time I`ve spend with BoS. Let`s say that is 500 hours which is serious under estimate in my case. So 160 divided with 500 is 0.32€/hour. I don`t know about you but you can`t get anything here with that price.

 

I have a lot of games which are very good but there`s just nothing that drives me to play them. BoS is different case for me. I anxiously wait for updates and dev diarys. I play it almost every day. I think it is the best sim out there. But people are different, I can understand your POV because I experience the same thing in many other games. Just opinions, nothing wrong with that 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Zami

[Nocke]

To create something like BOS is a LOT of work (=money), there us not too many people buying it, and I would happily pay twice the current price if that way I can help to ensure there will be a sim like this to enjoy 10 years from now. Its an investment into the future. And if you cant afford it just wait for the sales. I sincerely dont believe the developers are getting rich at the current pricing, on the contrary, I am afraid it might come to a point where they cant continue.

And that is to be avoided a any cost

[Lt_Tomonaga]

I really do think people forget how much the original IL-2 cost back in the day when compared to inflation adjusted prices now

 

Cheers Dakpilot

That's besides the point. The original IL-2 did not charge so much money for the updates. This is why it had a loyal following, because the players felt the company was loyal to them.

 

The customers care more about company loyalty than they care about the latest visuals.

 

Proof is in the fact that we are still playing updated versions of Total Air War or Falcon 4.0 even though those products are 15 years old. With proper updates, those vintage products look incredibly good.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Lt_Tomonaga

[LLv24_Zami]

That's besides the point. The original IL-2 did not charge so much money for the updates. This is why it had a loyal following, because the players felt the company was loyal to them.

True, original Il-2 did not cost so much. But that was 15 years ago. Since then the prices on everything has multiplied, at least where I`m living. And you can`t compare prices of these to the big company main stream games IMO. 

 

I am just glad that someone makes these sims these days.  I doubt they are gold mines for the developers.

[SharpeXB]

Flight sim games are about 60x the amount of work today compared to the original series.

That figure is from Luthier. So it's impossible today for a flight sim to have the scope of features those old games had, they were just so much easier to make.

That's besides the point. The original IL-2 did not charge so much money for the updates. This is why it had a loyal following, because the players felt the company was loyal to them.

 

The customers care more about company loyalty than they care about the latest visuals.

 

Proof is in the fact that we are still playing updated versions of Total Air War or Falcon 4.0 even though those products are 15 years old. With proper updates, those vintage products look incredibly good.

Will wait a few years and come back again. I know things will change by then.

 

Wow those few years sure went by quickly.

[Lt_Tomonaga]

Wow those few years sure went by quickly.

What do you mean, do you want me to disappear from the forums forever? That's kind of rude.

 

I'm playing other sims, that's all,  but I'm not disappearing from the forums. I want to watch the developments and read about the updates. IL-2 ver. 2 is a promising product, it's just not ready for consumption.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Lt_Tomonaga

[Ace_Pilto]

Inflation...

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I love the FM, ground handling and general feel of flight. It's superior to the other sims in my opinion. I know the cost seems high but ti's actually not far off much bigger titles like Elite or the really terrible 25 hour long AAA console ports that are released.

 

You get hundreds of hours from a sim like this and the cost is quite low per hour but if people don't like it then they shouldn't buy it I suppose....all I will say though is in 5-10 years time when all the flight sim companies are gone don't complain because we had a chance to keep them alive. There seems to be little desire for complicated 'games' anymore from what I can see, most companies are catering for dummies nowadays.

 

Finally our demographic is very old compared to most other games....take a look at the polls, I don't think WW2 is so interesting to younger generations like it was for my age group.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Finally our demographic is very old compared to most other games....take a look at the polls, I don't think WW2 is so interesting to younger generations like it was for my age group.

 

But then if you look at it Call of Duty was rooted in WW2 and attracted all the youngsters, same for Battlefield, Medal of Honour and other franchises. They did in the end turn to 'zoinks spekopz in Irakistan aginst da Rasians' but they enjoyed a long life as WW2 games.

 

Also, even if the hi-fi crowd hates it one cannot deny that War Thunder lives as proof that kids enjoy WW2 aviation, even if it comes in a very dilluted package. Checking some stats online I see they can garner upwards of 30,000 players online at the same time, quite a feat for a) a flight simulator and b) a WW2 game. Now the joy of it is that once people want that little extra, they start seeing the cracks in WT and look for the next step which today is Il-2. It's hard to see WW2 aviation going out of business - we're talking about fast, loud and mean machines without missiles or radars that need you to go in close and personal to shred the enemy with the most personal weapon in aerial warfare, the gun.

 

If to look at it that way flying WW2 fighters is the combination of Need For Speed and Counter-Strike

[SharpeXB]

What do you mean, do you want me to disappear from the forums forever?

You're the one who's subject line said you're leaving the game.