Will you miss the bombers on MP servers?

[Lusekofte]

The one and only reason for me preferring this sim before COD and DCS is the fact that I do not like flying fighters. I just do not see the point.

I want a defined job to do and do it, I am a crane operator in real life, I build stuff. I need to see progress, and the end of the built in order to be interested. Flying fighters well if you shoot down one , there will come another, never ending story.

 

Anyway, When this game was new, fighters attacking me needed only a bullet or two to shoot my wing off, BUT I needed only to hit it 4 times to disable it. Kind of balanced.

In COD a fighter need to empty there gun in order to shoot down a bomber, and you need to be clever to hit a fighter enough to make it RTB, Balanced.

BUT the gunners call out about the fighter long before you are able to spot it, this is important. It give you a chance. This small chance is why you fly. 

Now, the gun effectiveness of a fighter is the same, but the gunner do not react in time to defend you at all. We getting fewer, and to be honest I will reduce my activity down to friday night bomber event. It is totally meaningless flying a slow fat target and it shows in the servers.

 

I am sick of the constant bitching about sniper gunners from fighter jockeys, the times my gunners manage to shoot down a fighter , it is me who do it, and most of the time the 109 pilot leave server, instead of giving me that pleasure, but one thing is for sure, he will complain about the gunner efficiency somewhere. Well now it is rock bottom, and if you want fat targets flying, it got to be AI because you will soon find that none fly them anymore

Edited January 29, 2016 by EG14_LuseKofte

[Y-29.Silky]

False.

 

I just had a 3 bomber formation last night (Thursday night) in a stuka, Pe-2, and IL-2. Few of us got kills from AI gunners, AI gunners because we hold tight formations. Our job is not to jump from pilot seat to rear gunner, our job is to hold formation and concentrate on the objective; AI gunner and any escorts, it's their job to protect us, when a fighter attacks us, we hold tight formation so he receives a wall of lead. The only time it took a "bullet or two" is when we fly He-111 but even then, we don't take 4000kg bombs to make us the easiest targets around.

 

Especially the many 109 Werhaboos in this game need to re-read their Blonde Knight book because even Hartmann says the Pe-2s were dangerous and quite frankly I think he even went dry shooting up an IL-2 who kept flying.

 

As for when bombing with German aircraft, the escorts get bored and leave, that's where the tight formation is needed most.

[Livai]

BTW someone called Bombers to be the Terminator..... Because they shot accurate all enemy fighters down? Bombers are harder to shoot down because players replace the AI Gunners if they hear them shooting. AI gunner start to fire now from long range around 800m. There are some clever bomber pilots who set his plane to Auto Level flight if they hear the AI gunner start to shooting at someone and take control over this AI Gunner to shoot better enemy fighters down.

[Jade_Monkey]

I think a lot of fighters complain about sniper gunners but the reality is that they attack straight from behind, where all the gunners are pointing, and think they will never get hit. When they do get shot (to their absolute surprise), they come to the forum and whine.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Jade_Monkey

[Lusekofte]

I have endured the non active gunners for some times, you got this bug that you do not get response from the gunners since forever, but somehow they did work, out of 4 flights only one time did the gunner do anything and it was too late to react, @ Silky, calling false is [Edited], there are issues and you know it. So why run the earned of the developers. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Bearcat
Profanity

[Stig]

Yes, the AI crewmen should call out enemy planes, just as they did in the real thing.

 

And we want you to keep flying bombers in MP.   

[Lusekofte]

I am just frustrated, I cannot stay away. But all this time they almost make a homerun, almost. It is always this little thing missing to make it great

Edited January 29, 2016 by EG14_LuseKofte

[Original_Uwe]

How many other bombers in your formation?

Because frankly-flying alone in a bomber is, as it should be, suicidal.

[Stig]

There will always be a 'little thing missing  to make it great' for someone, somewhere. 

 

However, i do agree that AI reacting with some semblance of realism is important for immersion. 

[Lusekofte]

How many other bombers in your formation?

Because frankly-flying alone in a bomber is, as it should be, suicidal.

 

I know it is suisidal , but with clouds to dive down to it is survivable if you just know they are coming, if you have vision like a fighter there is no problem, but in most bombers you have no rear view, it is too late if your gunners do not work. I fly with other bombers when I see them, but with little to non activity on TS it is hard to find wingmen. My squad is cod based so that is not a option. I can live with bad odds, that comes with the territory, I like the fact that you can be attacked , it would be boring other wise, but you should have a little tad of hope to survive

[wtornado]

How many other bombers in your formation?

Because frankly-flying alone in a bomber is, as it should be, suicidal.

I could fly all night in my HE-111 alone and not see one Russian fighter.

 

Go to target bomb and fly back and only worry about flak.

 

With the amount of people flying 109's it was suicidal to fly a Russian fighter.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Do not fly alone and hold formation like others said. I was some time gunner and died fast because bomber pilot was trying aerobatics to prevent bee hit.

Edited January 29, 2016 by tomcatqw

[Sokol1]

...but with clouds to dive down to it is survivable if you just know they are coming, 

 

Be what some recently videos are showing in MP servers, dive in clouds will be in vain.   

[Fern]

False.

 

I just had a 3 bomber formation last night (Thursday night) in a stuka, Pe-2, and IL-2. Few of us got kills from AI gunners, AI gunners because we hold tight formations. Our job is not to jump from pilot seat to rear gunner, our job is to hold formation and concentrate on the objective; AI gunner and any escorts, it's their job to protect us, when a fighter attacks us, we hold tight formation so he receives a wall of lead. The only time it took a "bullet or two" is when we fly He-111 but even then, we don't take 4000kg bombs to make us the easiest targets around.

 

Especially the many 109 Werhaboos in this game need to re-read their Blonde Knight book because even Hartmann says the Pe-2s were dangerous and quite frankly I think he even went dry shooting up an IL-2 who kept flying.

 

As for when bombing with German aircraft, the escorts get bored and leave, that's where the tight formation is needed most.

 

I miss flying in these formations with you guys. It may be time to come fly again.

[Y-29.Silky]

I miss flying in these formations with you guys. It may be time to come fly again.

Yes you do Fern! We just finished a few minutes ago haha, had those formations of 6-8 again. Few stuka raids but AAA kept annihilating our whole flight so we took the HE-111's up to 4-5000m, that's always fun.

[kestrel79]

When do you guys usually fly? Any US friendly times? I would love to fly bomber formations with some other people sounds like fun!

[ACG_pezman]

When do you guys usually fly? Any US friendly times? I would love to fly bomber formations with some other people sounds like fun!

If you don't mind Russian aircraft you should check out the 71st. We are NA based and fly everything. Always looking for people to team up with. We also fly German too when the team numbers permit.

 

www.il2aceshigh.com

[[TWB]80hd]

There has to be a balance for AI gunners on bombers... 

 

Making a high-speed, high-deflection pass on a bomber should not result in your plane being ruined very often, if you are hit at all.

 

On the other hand, fighters camping out on your 6 should be ruined... 

 

Neither of the alternatives to the above are fun for anyone involved.  Bombers should be hard to kill unless you're a great pilot with great gunnery.  Fighters should be hard to hit unless you make it easy for a gunner.  Having your flight ended by a golden BB is frustrating no matter what you are flying.

[Wandalen]

Enig med deg KuseLofte.

I love to fly bomber in server with a mission objective, i.e destroy targets. I also notice the gunners dont get up in the the seat before the enemy plane has passed and its to late.

But i find it more frustrating to brop a 2000kg bomb 50cm from a tank and see it keep on going without a scratch.

 

~S~

[Livai]

Did someone tested this new patch 1.108 http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/20876-joint-voluntary-invisible-planes-testing-initiative/

I notice changes to the AI gunners. Now they shoot from 1000m at you

[BSS_Tintin]

Just a thought; do you command the gunners to open fire as early as possible as well as give them permission to fire at will?

I am thinking about these commands...

Weapons controls   Gunners: Fire at will Ralt 1 Gunners: Attack balloons Ralt 5 Gunners: Attack ground tgts Ralt 6 Gunners: Return fire Ralt 2 Gunners: Cease fire Ralt 3 Gunners: Cease heavy weapons fire Ralt 4 Gunners: Long attack distance Ralt 9 Gunners: Normal attack distance Ralt 8 Gunners: Short attack distance Ralt 7

 

I was made aware of the necessity to issue these commands a little while ago and in my experience the AI gunner do put up a decent defence...

I still get knocked down a lot though...  

Just my two pennies gentlemen.

 

Cheers

 

BSS_Tintin

[Lusekofte]

You need tout shoot at long range. Then you have a little time . There is not people on TS . So formations are hard to orginize

[Wulf]

So ... is actual 'gunnery' and physics involved when the AI open-up, or does the game engine just inflict damage on attacking fighters in certain scenarios?  If it's the former (and I assume it is), then in most respects, any fault/blame associated with being hit will rest with the attacking fighter pilot - except of course, if the game allows the AI gunners to shoot at angles that were simply impossible in RL.

 

 

Do not fly alone and hold formation like others said. I was some time gunner and died fast because bomber pilot was trying aerobatics to prevent bee hit.

 

If you fly bombers alone (for whatever reason) you'd be insane to continue flying straight and level when under concerted fighter attack.  In reality, you'd be shot down in very short order.  When flying in massed formation you'd hold your spot but even then, if your aircraft became the subject of a sustained attack, you'd be expected to skid and undulate in an effort to make the fighter's job as difficult as possible.  One of the immersion problems we have in the game is the inability of the AI air gunners to call out fighters as they come in and to direct the pilot when evasive action has become a matter of life and death.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Wulf

[LukeFF]

 

 

I notice changes to the AI gunners. Now they shoot from 1000m at you

 

That's nothing new. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Another friednly tip for bomber fellows is to reload all defensive weapons manually before takeoff. At least in older builds ai gunners always had to reload before shooting which they eventually did when an enemy appears.

 

The biggest enemy to me when flying a bomber is time. On servers like DeD expert it easily takes 45 min to fly a sole, well planed sortie.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Livai]

That's nothing new. 

 

Nothing new? And this! I did a Quick Mission where I start to land on my own airfield a enemy convoy was 2600m away. I get closer and closer to my runway ready to land on it and what I see bullets impacts on the runway coming from the enemy convoy. And once more. Why with the new .exe the AI gunner hit me from 800m range, MP Expert mode. I known the range where the shots from AI Gunner are very accurate but not at 700-800m. Long range sniper mode, Great. And what you say now?

[wtornado]

Guess everyone is an expert in expert mod.

 

By the way when bombers find you in this game in your HE-111

you rarely return home.

 

So it is fun to see the fghters not return home either.

Edited February 4, 2016 by WTornado

[Asgar]

Guess everyone is an expert in expert mod.

 

By the way when bombers find you in this game in your HE-111

you rarely return home.

 

So it is fun to see the fghters not return home either.

"i die so he has to die"...sry, but that's a not an argument. 

 

IL-2 is a simulation and German fighers didn't shoot down bombers with a K/D ratio of 1:1. If you perform slashing attacks the chance for the gunners to hit you should be minimal. If you sit on a bombers tail, fine it's your own fault you die

Edited February 4, 2016 by I./JG3_Asgar

[Sokol1]

From bomber pilot perspective, the (AI) gunners more gabby (Bonzaroy, Bonzaroy, Bonsaroy...) than shoot - when the gunsight is show is the player firing.

 

Record in DED (NORMAL).

 

But at least the argument that they don't detect enemy fighters is not true.

 

In this game gunners shoot only in fighters - don't know how they classify Bf 110, Pe-2, IL-2.

[Sokol1]

Answer about gunners refuse to work (in Russian forum):

 

- With silent (gunner) in multiplayer is not clear what to do, because it only (occur) on "occupied" servers, and then not always.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Sokol1

[SYN_Mike77]

This past Sunday a bunch of us were flying the flying boat in RoF.  We had multiple human gunners in each plane.  It was great fun and the Albies only approached in groups and then with care.  The best advice when flying bombers in BoS would be to get human gunners!