Bf-109 Colored numbers meaning

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Hey Guys

I am putting this here to ask all of the knowledgeable people in the community, if you can explain to me about the German Colored numbers on the Bf-109. I'm currently re-doing our Gruppe's skins to make the as historically accurate as possible. I have 2 Staffels. the 4th JG53 and now the 5th JG53. I understand about the colored theater bands but I'm not sure of their numbering system. Also was there 12 pilots per Staffel or 12 pilots plus 4 officers making it 16 total in a Staffel. 

 

Any info you guys can post or send me I would be indebted to you for a long time...Or I can just buy you coffee..

 

Thanks for your time....Salute!

[Brano]

http://modelingmadness.com/codes/codes.htm

[Vade]

12 Pilots in a "Staffel" includes the officers.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/pr/jg53/s4a.htm

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Thanks guys

but what about the numbers, sometimes I see colored numbers. Is that just another way to tell what staffel you belong to? Like the colors of the nose spinner and or the numbers...

[unreasonable]

Badger, it is in Brano's link near the bottom!

 

Generally for fighters white = staffel 1, red (later black) for staffel 2, yellow for staffel 3, blue for staffel 4. (Jabo and bombers had their own systems).

Edited January 26, 2016 by unreasonable

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Guys Im going to redo our skins to be historically correct, I would love your guys feedback to make sure that the marking and colors are correct. I would really love that if you guys can be helpful. Thanks again

[Brano]

4./JG53 is either :

a) II.gruppe 1st staffel=your fuselage numbers are white

b) I.gruppe 4th staffel=your fuselage numbers are blue

 

The choice is yours.

[unreasonable]

If you want to be super accurate, it could depend on the date. I do not have the right volume of the book on JG53, but generally adding a 4th staffel per group was done fairly late in the war - I am thinking late 1943 or even 1944.

 

4./JG53 had white in late 1942, so for BoS/BoM purposes that is probably your best bet. (See white 2 down the list here....)

 

http://luftwaffeprofile.blogspot.com/p/jg53-gustav-profiles.html

[Beazil]

Well, that at least covers me. 

[unreasonable]

Well, that at least covers me. 

 

Actually there is a 5./JG53 plane on that list as well (black numbers) and only a couple of planes from well into 1944 with staffel numbers and colours consistent with a 4 staffel per Gruppe organization. So 4=white and 5=black looks like your best bet.

 

 (Plus Fs on another page with the same result - nice selection of JG53 skins here). 

Edited January 27, 2016 by unreasonable

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Thanks unreasonable I had that same link good stuff there! But didn't the 5th Staffel have red or black numbers too. Here's a page from one of my books.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by 4./JG53_Badger

[unreasonable]

Thanks unreasonable I had that same link good stuff there! But didn't the 5th Staffel have red or black numbers too.

 

 

 

Red was regulation earlier in the war for the second staffel in each gruppe (so usually 2,5,8) but discarded in favour of black quite quickly in practice because of the potential for confusion with allied markings.

 

The 1943 regulations specified black for the second staffel - but actually black was used well before that as the various photos and profiles make clear.  Check out all the Emil profiles on the site for all the JGs you will see red on 1939 aircraft, a few in 1940: by 1941 red has almost gone.  Pretty much as your book states in the text to the left of the table.

 

I doubt that many of your pilots would be happy swanning about fighting the Ivans with red markings on their sides , enough mistaken identity already,  but red does look cool on some colour schemes!

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Yeah I know what your saying. I know that for the 4th I'm staying with the white numbers but with the 5th I'm going to go black but I'm having Uwe our gruppen painter do me up one with red numbers just to see. Being that this is early war between October 1941 and January 1942, I may go red until BOS gives us later maps. Its crazy if ya think about all of the different variables you can have for the Bf109's.

[unreasonable]

You are so right about variability! Each unit (usually at gruppe level)  had its own pet colour schemes and marking conventions, and in some cases units would be flying planes that had been painted and marked up by other units and then handed over. Hence you get these photos with different positions of fuselage theatre bands, and some with yellow noses, some without - all in the same unit. That is what makes skinning for the 109 so interesting.

 

You could go with either a fairly uniform camo scheme and markings for all your squadron, or lots of variety in paintjob: both could be authentic, just depends on what time frame you are comparing.