How Popular is Multiplayer?

[Gambit21]

HOWEVER! I also think a coop interface (choosing slots, readying up, launching missions) is still useful, even if it's not necessary to running coop-style missions. I miss it, and I wish it was there. I think a coop interface helps with things like squadron cohesion, sense of teamwork, sense of anticipation, even. All good things, all things which contribute to my enjoyment of a good ol' teamplay-based MP session.

 

This is really what it comes down to for many of us - it's the tool to get everyone together and flying at the same time, sharing the experience.

Without that common gathering place, we wont' have proper CoOps again even if the native tools provide the possibility to launch

a CoOp mission. Jiri really have us something that radically improved online play.

 

I now have a better understanding of what you've been saying, and I appreciate the input.

Nevertheless, that sort of "common room" with the slots...the way it worked before gave us something that despite what theoretical possibilities apparently exist now, we

don't actually have at the moment. Hyperlobby was the one place we all knew to go to find a Co Op mission, or to host one.

That's something players like Robin just don't get (because they weren't there) even if they understand the possibilities of the current editor.

 

Bottom line, if what we wanted (or wanted back) already existed, or a satisfactory substitute existed or had been implemented, we wouldn't be here saying we need Hyperlobby back. It really begins and ends there. I now get that in theory I could get a COp mission up and running and listed on the multiplayer page if I was extremely motivated.

That's still not a convenient, central meeting place where habitual CoOp pilots and meet and fly. (Yes Robin, Teamspeak blah blah blah...not the same thing)

 

 

I look forward to diving into the ME at some point, but that won't be until a theater is provided that I can really sink my teeth into...and that's not Eastern Front.

 

Thanks again for your constructive input Swallow.

Cheers

[DD_Arthur]

 HOWEVER! I also think a coop interface (choosing slots, readying up, launching missions) is still useful, even if it's not necessary to running coop-style missions. I miss it, and I wish it was there. I think a coop interface helps with things like squadron cohesion, sense of teamwork, sense of anticipation, even. All good things, all things which contribute to my enjoyment of a good ol' teamplay-based MP session.

 

So, I really hope the devs add this resource, but at the same time, I just don't get the exasperation (and aggression) of people who state that the game can't do what they want, when clearly, obviously and truthfully, it can!

 

RoF does have a coop system that works rather well for squad guys - not having a lobby system is a major shortcoming for running casual coops a 'la Hyperlobby - so hopefully, with a small amount of coding, this can be brought into BoS in the near future.

 

I must admit I don't understand the exasperation and aggression of people in this thread who have felt the need to add their two 'penneth worth when they obviously don't know what they're talking about.  Stockholm syndrome I presume.  

[Asgar]

are people actually to lazy to use the forum to plan their coops?

[Gambit21]

are people actually to lazy to use the forum to plan their coops?

 

'sigh' - see above post directly above.

 

I don't even know where to start with that one.

A - are you under the impression that everyone who wants fly a CoOp frequents the forum?

B - that works for an "event" type of CoOp that you can plan ahead of time, and then only for that mission, and then only for those who happen to be on the forum.

      I can tell you from experience that many CoOp guys were not on the forum.

C - Often CoOps are spur of the moment things, when one of us had time to host that evening.

 

D - We'd fly multiple missions a night, one every 20 to 30 minutes.

 

Forum? Not so much.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Gambit21

[BraveSirRobin]

That's still not a convenient, central meeting place where habitual CoOp pilots and meet and fly. (Yes Robin, Teamspeak blah blah blah...not the same thing)

 

Which Hyperlobby features is Teamspeak missing? You can set up separate channels for each server. You can communicate. What more do you need?

[Asgar]

'sigh' - see above post directly above.

yes...exactly "I don't have a program that does all the work for me, so i can't do coops" ...there is a whole forum section where people organize coops. every single week 

Edited May 31, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Gambit21]

yes...exactly "I don't have a program that does all the work for me, so i can't do coops" ...there is a whole forum section where people organize coops. every single week 

 

Nope

[BraveSirRobin]

Nope

Do you need a co-op elf that hold your hand from beginning to end? I really don't see that happening.

[Asgar]

Nope

thanks, you're the perfect example for an entitled lazy person

[Gambit21]

thanks, you're the perfect example for an entitled lazy person

Not so much

Do you need a co-op elf that hold your hand from beginning to end? I really don't see that happening.

Nope

[SYN_Mike77]

I can see the utility of hyperlobby for those casual, hey look I got an hour think I'll get in a sorte or two days.  And I'm not sure that teamspeak is real good for that.  You would have to set up the teamspeak room and advertise it and hope people did the work to get into the room...oh bother. Here is how I see it working.  I would fire up hyperlobby, select BoS/BoM hit EU72 ded and hopefully corral a few or even one guy to join me (then we could also get into a teamspeak room).  That to me would be a good thing.  But I don't see the need for a specific coop room and in fact I think it would be less realistic and emersion killing than what we have now.

 

BUT!  This is not the devs fault!  Why don't one of the guys who knows hyperlobby do something about it? 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by SYN_Mike77

[BraveSirRobin]

Not so much

Nope

Apparently you do. All the infrastructure for co-ops is in place. You just refuse to except it.

 

I think the real problem is that co-ops have been replaced by something better. So not as many people are playing co-ops anymore.

[Gambit21]

 

I can see the utility of hyperlobby for those casual, hey look I got an hour think I'll get in a sorte or two days.  And I'm not sure that teamspeak is real good for that.  You would have to set up the teamspeak room and advertise it and hope people did the work to get into the room...

 

 

Thank you - that's all I'm saying. That's really the boat many of us are in - 30 minutes or an hour or two here and there, not predictable.

I appreciate the sensible post, much better than being called lazy by some clown on the internet who doesn't get where I'm coming from.

 

I used to spend hours upon hours making immersive missions.

Hope to get back to that at some point.

[Asgar]

i'm sure your carfullly worded arguments (meaning insults) will help you find people to fly with you. Have fun 

[Gambit21]

i'm sure your carfullly worded arguments (meaning insults) will help you find people to fly with you. Have fun 

 

Yeah I've never had problems in that department, but then I don't go around calling people with so many dedicated hours into the community 'lazy' because

they're simply trying to have a conversation about Hyperlobby and how it benefited the community.

[BraveSirRobin]

I used to spend hours upon hours making immersive missions.

Hope to get back to that at some point.

There's nothing stopping you from doing that right now.

[Gambit21]

There's nothing stopping you from doing that right now.

 

I need a different theater to motivate me.

I don't know enough about the Eastern Front...just doesn't stir my blood the same way some other theaters do.

In order to devote that kind of time, I'll the Pacific or at least France.

 

I appreciate your input as well about Teamspeak and editor BTW.

[BraveSirRobin]

I need a different theater to motivate me.

I don't know enough about the Eastern Front...just doesn't stir my blood the same way some other theaters do.

In order to devote that kind of time, I'll the Pacific or at least France.

 

I appreciate your input as well about Teamspeak and editor BTW.

Maybe you could just get some practice with the editor for when they announced that the Med is next .

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Gambit, I also have pretty limited time during some periods, so what I've done lately is, whenever the chance arrives, I fire up Tactical Air War and go on their TeamSpeak. The usual crowd with some additions is always there, so I fly a sortie or two and call it a night. Give it a go, even when people aren't on TeamSpeak they coordinate their actions via chat.

 

Ultimately, if TAW is empty I go on DED and play spotter for the squadrons and solo players there. I either take a MiG-3, LaGG-3 or Il-2, load the aircraft up to the brim with weaponry and go snaking through enemy territory at 500m following major roads, rivers and the general position of frontlines and airbases. Invariably I bump into a fortified area, bridge or convoy that opens up on me. If I've scanned through enough and have no hope of finding anything else, I drop all my load there and go home. If not, I relay the information to other players (ex. "Bridge, 1433.6"), strafe soft targets in the area and keep on looking. When I find something worth bombing to oblivion, I try to take it out single-handedly and should I fail I relay the information to the rest in the same format. If I take it out but have ammo left, I go looking for something else and repeat the process.

 

Yesterday for example in 40 minutes I took off in a loaded Il-2 (good old 1942 fatso, without the gunner) and followed a river to Surovkino, sensing there would be targets near a major airbase. I sneaked past the flak, then found a bridge. Strafed all the supporting structure, went south where a river was close to the front. Soon enough I saw a major bridge full of buildings nearby and with machine guns defending it. I dropped a salvo of four FAB-50s onto the ammunition deposits, taking out three of them. The MG opened up and damaged my engine but I was flying with the interface off and the gauges didn't show anything worrisome so I proceeded. Two more bombs onto the remaining ammo dumps, up they went in flames. After that I launched an eight-rocket salvo onto the bridge but that didn't destroy it entirely. I went around and strafed whatever was left until even the ShKAS ran dry. Thankfully the bridge was marked as destroyed on the map so I went home through the main action point in the frontline. There I spotted another two bridges and I passed the details to the other players. My windscreen started to darken after a while, probably oil, but I landed without a glitch.

 

PS: Also, if you want I can send you some Eastern Front material that may be of interest. That way even if you prefer the Pacific you might at least know a little bit more about it and thus keep your interest up until they go to your favourite lands. I have videos and some ebooks/PDFs that I can send your way

Edited May 31, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[Brano]

There is official public free for all TS server provided by Jason. That people don't use it,its not his fault or the fault of the game design. It is clear sign that majority of users don' care about communication and no Hyperlobby or such app will make it any better. The best thing to do is find dedicated like-minded bunch of players and join in. Like ZG26 guys,they are great folks to fly with/against

EDIT

Sorry Lucas,I forgot you and your wild bunch from 55.IAP and many other great people I had opportunity to fly with. Gee,I have to finish that refurbishment so I can unpack my flying gadgets and join you up there again. I have some serious withdrawal symptoms 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Brano

[Gambit21]

Thanks for that Lucas.

I need to get over the aversion to talking to my computer...I just haven't been able to go there.

I'm a bit old school and I need to get over that I guess.

[SYN_Mike77]

Gambit:  I get where you are coming from on talking to your computer.  But once you try flying while communicating with a bunch of guys you will never go back!  Think of it this way, if you were in  a cockpit would you have an aversion to talking to your airplane?  If you are like me you may have to put up with the occasional eye roll from the wife, but hey, add it to the list.

[Gambit21]

The wife eye roll factor is huge, gotta admit...hehe

[BraveSirRobin]

Thanks for that Lucas.

I need to get over the aversion to talking to my computer...I just haven't been able to go there.

I'm a bit old school and I need to get over that I guess.

You don't even have to talk to your computer to organize a co-op. Just use the text chat function.

[wtornado]

Having looked at the ME the Dserver and and how you have to set up a server through teamspeak it is a real pain in the ass for the mission builder host

you have to calculate and screw around the timers to try and get a stable balanced ping with your players and then you have to jump in and out of the

Dserver to kick the high pings that kill game fluidity.Guys coming in leaving taking spots wanting to change planes asking when the game was starting

and is there enough human players becuase the AI sucks....

 

The ping is more or less controlled in the servers we see now with the lagging bullets hits and plane positioning it is almost painful to watch furballs sometimes.

 

I now I get it you can't start throwing people out because of ping there are not enough online as it is.

 

It was easier to set a max ping like in the old IL-2 the mods for triggers,settings DOT range icons, was incredibly good for the seasoned veteran mission maker.

 

Setting a max ping of 100 would make gameplay so stable you could swear the guy was playing in the room next to you.

All that above trying to run co-op mind you

 

I think what always surprised me the most being a mission builder and a host is how little other people joining the matches new just how much work and

and effort went into building and hosting most haven't got a damn clue.

Edited May 31, 2016 by WTornado

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for that Lucas.

I need to get over the aversion to talking to my computer...I just haven't been able to go there.

I'm a bit old school and I need to get over that I guess.

 

I'm like that too, don't worry. But think about it this way, you still talk to the computer when you use Skype. TeamSpeak is just a different program for that - in the end you're talking to people, not the machine

 

To know a bit more, I would recommend starting with these three different sources:

 

"Soviet Storm" - a documentary series initially aired on Russian TV in 2011.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhXKlYnSWjA

 

"The Unknown War" - a joint American-Soviet production from 1978, including some footage from Soviet archives never aired before even in the Soviet Union. It also has exclusive interviews with major figures like Zhukov.

 

 

"Aleksandr Pokryshkin" - a 1985 Soviet TV documentary, translated into English and uploaded by members of the Il-2 community. It features some excellent interviews with Soviet fighter pilots who fought all the way from 1941 to 1945, focusing on the impact Aleksandr Pokryshkin had onto the air combat of the time.

 

 

I also have two memoirs available in English if you want, one by Anna Egorova (U-2 and Il-2 pilot), another by Evgeniy Mariinskiy (P-39 pilot).

[SCG_Tzigy]

Over Fields of Fire by Egorova is an excellent book if u wanna learn about what it was like to live in and fight for the Soviet Union.....read it twice already and will likely read it again. It is pretty raw and unpolished but very honest. It super hard to find some really good aviation accounts in English overall. Going back home to Czech in couple weeks looking fwd to the Pokryskin Memoir book, my dad found in used book store for me..

[JimTM]

...and then you have to jump in and out of the Dserver to kick the high pings that kill game fluidity.

 

Hi WTornado,

 

You can set the max ping in the DServer configuration dialog, Max Client Ping field.

 

Max Client Ping

    The maximum ping (in milliseconds) allowed between a player and the server before that player is automatically disconnected from the server. Select the "Unlimited" check box to have the server accept any ping.

[No601_Swallow]

This is really what it comes down to for many of us - it's the tool to get everyone together and flying at the same time, sharing the experience.

Without that common gathering place, we wont' have proper CoOps again even if the native tools provide the possibility to launch

a CoOp mission. Jiri really have us something that radically improved online play.

 

 

+100!

 

Let the mutual backslapping continue! 

 

[but as I think about it more, I do think that for some (i.e. me) that "social" aspect of coops is/was pretty important. I'm not very competitive (OK, I'm not very good) in online flying, so any tool that helps with the "hanging around with mates" aspect of MP simming is very good. Personally, I don't really miss Hyperlobby too much because I'm in a degenerate old squadron and normal "banter" continues anyway, but looking back I think HL was an important part of the experience. Which is surprising, considering how primative HL was. Maybe the devs need to remember their old days as swashbuckling online gamers and what first motivated them to go from SP to MP...!]

[No601_Swallow]

RoF does have a coop system that works rather well for squad guys - not having a lobby system is a major shortcoming for running casual coops a 'la Hyperlobby - so hopefully, with a small amount of coding, this can be brought into BoS in the near future.

 

Exactly my hope!

[SYN_Haashashin]

Wow, a lot has been said since last time I read it all...some good points across the board but I really dont like the back and forth (with personal remarks) that some members had in the last couple of pages so please keep that for PM if you need to say it or for your self.

 

Thats said, I agree completly with No601_Swallow, I mean I totally agree.

 

Before I say anything else let me tell you where I come from. Played sims starting with the Amiga2000 (Wings!!) going thru EAW, all CFS, il2, The Mighty Eight (the 2 of them). I played EAW a lot and little il2 Coops (I admit I was more of a SP campaign guy) but still had HL for the occasional MP session (if I remember right it was the only way to have a MP session in IL2). Then I stopped playing and when I discovered RoF it brought so many memories from my young days that It was a must buy, bought it when it was under Noeqb and not 777. RoF was the turning point for me since then I started playing MP. First by myself and then I meet the SYN guys.

 

Never touched a ME before the RoF one. I got no IT experience whatsoever (Im a Tourism grad) and at first I had to spend countless hours before I could even bring a MP mission for our server, and then it was buggy so it was only 10 min in rotation. I understand other mission builders when the speak about the dedication that is needed, I totally do cus I have spent thousand of hours with RoF/BoS/BoM editor. Dont know why, maybe cus Im not a IT guy, when I looked at other MEs that we at the SYN use, Arma3 to name one, I know is user friendly everybody tells me that, for me it was a pain. I couldnt do it and let Vander and Mrwolf be the Zeus and mission builders 

 

With this what I want to say is that everybody is more confortable with what they know. Its like that with everything and with HL, ME and all that is the same.

 

Now, if you guys want to know more about the ME, I dont mind to set a Q&A session at the official BoS TS just like I did several times with JimTM, DBS_Tip, Emil, Jupp and others (All of them doing superb missions as we speak). See here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15158-q-meetings/?hl=q

 

Just let me know if interested and will set up a date.

 

S

 

Edit: JimTM does not build mission that I have seen but..he has a 300 pags ME manual

[wtornado]

 

Hi WTornado,

 

You can set the max ping in the DServer configuration dialog, Max Client Ping field.

 

Max Client Ping

    The maximum ping (in milliseconds) allowed between a player and the server before that player is automatically disconnected from the server. Select the "Unlimited" check box to have the server accept any ping.

 

Good seen it thanks.

[JimTM]

...with JimTM, DBS_Tip, Emil, Jupp and others (All of them doing superb missions as we speak). See here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15158-q-meetings/?hl=q

 

...

 

Edit: JimTM does not build mission that I have seen but..he has a 300 pags ME manual

 

That's correct. I'll try to explain the simpler elements that go into building a complex mission. I'm not in the "Pros from Dover" league yet, like the folks you mentioned.

 

Thanks for offering your Q&A sessions again Haashashin. 

 

Cheers!

Edited May 31, 2016 by JimTM

[KoN_]

We had hypper-lobby and that was a perfect tool to bring like minded people together . This was asked for at the beginning of this game and it was said , we don`t need it .

IMHO i think we should of gone with it , because if we had then ` at the time hyper-lobby was waiting for the next gen flight sim after the fall of CLOD . 

At the end of the day if its a pain to make missions and a pain to create  a MP server ` then your loose people .

Simple things make people happy .

Fun makes people happy . 

Not Frustration .  And more frustration .  !!!

And even if you do get co-ops and hypper-lobby will the crowd come a running . I`ll be there though . Not given up yet .?? 

But the unlocks in  MP  . Humbug ..!!!!!

Edited June 1, 2016 by II./JG77_Con

[Chalax]

I am interesting in buying this game. I had it once but had to return it since I had no joystick. But I don't know if I should buy BoM or BoS. Any advices? Which is the one that has tanks on it?

[Asgar]

BoS has tanks. but honestly I personally think the planeset in BoM is just so much better. It's a lot more interesting and fun to play with in my opinion

Edited June 1, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[LLv24_Zami]

BoS has tanks. but honestly I personally think the planeset in BoM is just so much better. It's a lot more interesting and fun to play with in my opinion

I think BoM has tanks included too.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Zami

[Chalax]

BoS has tanks. but honestly I personally think the planeset in BoM is just so much better. It's a lot more interesting and fun to play with in my opinion

 

I think BoM has tanks included too.

 

I am interested in mainly playing bombers since I suck at fighters. I am new with joysticks and regardless I just like bombers better. I abviously don't have the money to buy both games. So that is why I am wondering if I should buy BoM or Bos first.

[Chalax]

I was also reading that I have to have BoS in order to play BoM but that was before May 2016... So will I be able to fly BoM if I buy now even though I dont have BoS?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

As far as I know, tanks are included for either Battle of Moscow or Battle of Stalingrad, so you're good to go with either. If you want to play tanks online, I would suggest getting Battle of Stalingrad simply because most servers that have player-controlled tanks use the Stalingrad map for their missions.

 

If you prefer single-player, go for the one with the aircraft that attract you the most.

 

In a short brief, here are the differences:

 

Battle of Moscow - different aircraft with different strengths and weaknesses

Soviet fighters: best high-altitude fighter in the game (MiG-3), most manoeuvrable fighter in the game (I-16), first American aircraft (P-40).

Soviet attack/bomber: fast and durable aircraft that can even take on fighters by themselves if needed (light early versions of Il-2 and Pe-2)

 

German fighters: versatile all-rounder that can take on anything from swirling dogfights to effective ground attack (Bf-109E-7), a hot rod that likes speed (Bf-109F-2), a nifty Italian fighter with many tricks up its sleeve (C.202)

German attack/bomber: two jacks-of-all trades workhorses, one that is a fighter but excels at strike missions (Bf-110), and another is a level bomber which can play dive, strike and whatever you ask from it (Ju-88)

 

Battle of Stalingrad - very closely matched fighter performance across the board, with a few advantages to each side

Soviet fighters: a light fighter that is very beginner-friendly and can do most things very well, even if it's not the best at anything (Yak-1), a heavy but sturdy fighter with great roll and firepower (LaGG-3), a specialist's fighter with heavy guns and an extremely powerful engine (La-5)

Soviet attack/bomber: a workhorse attacker that is slow but can deal a lot of damage and absorb quite a few hits (Il-2 with mixed wooden/metal construction), a fast bomber with heavy defensive power (Pe-2, 1942 variants)

 

German fighters: excellent performance across the board (Bf-109F-4), superb climb rate and high altitude performance (Bf-109G-2), the most speed and guns you can put on a fighters (Fw-190)

German attack/bombers: two new versions of older workhorse designs (the legendary He-111 and Ju-87). Both show their age with their slow speeds, but they can pack a good punch and if you make it to target the enemy better have shelter.

 

If you prefer bombers and can live with single player until most servers start including Battle of Moscow, go for Battle of Moscow. The Il-2 there is a work of art, the Pe-2 is very pleasant to fly and hard to catch ("not a machine, but a miracle - here is our bomber, our attacker and our escort, all in the Pe-2" -General Polbin, Soviet dive-bomber pilot), the Bf-110 can do just about everything you need to do and do it well, and the Ju-88 is an amazing combination of bomb load, speed and versatility.

 

The nice chaps at 6./ZG 26 are running a Battle of Moscow server so you can always go there and bomb stuff - there are plenty of targets, and they make a nice challenge.