How Popular is Multiplayer?

[Pharoah]

don't forget, IL2 1946 had aged graphics at its peak (just more variety) - CloD which was touted as the successor left a bad taste in the mouths of many IL2 players who refused to touch it...then they just moved on to bigger/better things. Don't forget, DCS has also come up as well. I reckon once a combat aviation sim enthusiast, always a combat aviation sim enthusiast but its what game they choose. The competition (then and now) to IL2 is:

 

- DCS

- IL2 CloD

- Elite: Dangerous

 

Regardless of whatever the competition is, you need to give customers what they want. If you give customers what you want (or what only a small proportion of customers want), you get a small customer base and no $$.

[wtornado]

It's not worse, just different

 

And it is not what I want.

 

DCS has no depth and real purpose other than flying.I find its an ''Air Show'' sim

 

I like CloD but, ROF more with its co-op capabilities and nice aircraft.,

 

Star Citizen(waiting for the 2.4 patch and joined a SQDN)Wow I actually joined a Sqdn!

 

I like that little 20$ Air Mission-Hind game to buzz around and shoot up ground targets.

 

I would buy the Bf-110 but I do not really fly enough to see the point of purchasing it.

 

BOM ioffers no more than BOS does for me personally.

Edited May 26, 2016 by WTornado

[BlitzPig_EL]

I suspect a lot of the old mission makers are somewhat like me.

 

I used to make all the maps for the Blitzpigs (well most of them anyway)...  

 

Tried my hand at the mission editor in BoS, and simply gave up.   I used to enjoy making maps/missions, but the new editor is just more than I am willing to deal with.  I suspect many of the old mission builders from IL2 are in the same boat.

Regardless of what the folks who will inevitably come in here will say, it's not a user friendly tool in the least.  If there were a streamlined version that was actually intuitive to use, you might see a small explosion of map making again.

 

Oh, but then there is that little issue of having to run on a dedicated server, and no ability just to host when you want to without permission from the devs in the form of a key.

 

That does rub a lot of people the wrong way.

 

Oh, and no co-ops...

[Lusekofte]

I liked mission making in IL 2, but all the new maps and objects made everything obsolete after a short time. I have made simple missions in ME here just to test it out. It is not user friendly in many ways , but for a single mission it is not hard. When it comes to what we see in servers of today I can imagine it take time and effort. But in my case I am just not up for the time spent doing it.

And the way they are treated by the public, like common slaves getting demands every second of their time spent in here. naaaah think not

[Gambit21]

I suspect a lot of the old mission makers are somewhat like me.

 

I used to make all the maps for the Blitzpigs (well most of them anyway)...  

 

Tried my hand at the mission editor in BoS, and simply gave up.   I used to enjoy making maps/missions, but the new editor is just more than I am willing to deal with.  I suspect many of the old mission builders from IL2 are in the same boat.

Regardless of what the folks who will inevitably come in here will say, it's not a user friendly tool in the least.  If there were a streamlined version that was actually intuitive to use, you might see a small explosion of map making again.

 

Oh, but then there is that little issue of having to run on a dedicated server, and no ability just to host when you want to without permission from the devs in the form of a key.

 

That does rub a lot of people the wrong way.

 

Oh, and no co-ops...

Yes...Yes...and Yes.

[Urra]

Yes...Yes...and Yes.

Hi, I think it works both ways. I got used to this editor and it's hard for me to switch my mindset to scripting everything outside of the map. The password for the server is free and was given to any that requested it.

[FS_Fenice_1965]

The debate about the ME editor has been around for a long time.

The ME is more a job tool than a game tool.

It is unlikely that masses of players will start to use it to build missions for fun, like it happened with 1946.

I think that developers are aware of that.

Anyway a different interface is not an improvement we can expect in a short time....in the immediate future, the phate of multiplayer will be decided by other features.

[coconut]

For a simpler mission builder, there is always this: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14672-release-simple-3rd-party-mission-builder-bos/

It probably needs an update, and I don't think it currently supports MP, but it should be feasible for someone who knows java and web stuff.

[wtornado]

Why learn any of it if their is no lobby or co-op capability.

 

I made a lot of IL-2  co-ops for over a decade.

 

Most were coverted to mods.

 

It was all worth it making historical missions and the mods

permited it.Historical sqdns,planes and maps it was all possible

with mods.

[xvii-Dietrich]

...  we don't have proper CoOps.

 

I obviously don't understand this... but don't we have CoOps already?

 

If not, can someone please explain the difference between a "CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. To my mind, they are the same... players flying together online.

[Gambit21]

I obviously don't understand this... but don't we have CoOps already?

 

If not, can someone please explain the difference between a "CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. To my mind, they are the same... players flying together online.

In a CoOp, we all would join the mission via the Hyperlobby app.

I'd pick one of my missions (or the person hosting would pick another mission they'd downloaded, etc) and I'd launch a window in Hyperlobby.

That window would populate with players, when I had enough I'd launch the mission. (At that point if you were sitting there observing the Hyperlobby

app, and hadn't joined that CoOp, you'd see all those names, and the that CoOp window disappear)

 

So now we're all starting this mission at the same time, nobody else comes in. Everyone picks a side, picks an aircraft and it's corresponding roll in the mission.

Remaining aircraft not flown by players are flown by the AI.

 

So everyone on each side is starting together, taking off together, working together to accomplish the mission (or air start together if that's the way that particular mission was designed, or if that's where and how that particular flight was placed)

 

If designing a mission, I can choreograph and time events based on where I place the flights. If I want to arrange your escort flight of fighters to be bounced by the opposing

side from 2000 meters above you, I can easily arrange that with an air start. Or a 12 on 12 furball in the clouds. If I want you to be taking off while under a ferocious surprise attack from the other side, or I want your

flight to be attacking the other side who is trying to get airborne, I can arrange that.

 

The point is, everyone is taking part at the same time, in a more realistic manner, and things/events can be planned for greater effect in a way that's just not possible

with the dogfight rooms we have now. Which brings up another point, the types of players that habitually fly CoOps are mission oriented players. [Edited]

If I pick a flight who's assigned to escort bombers to and from the target, that's what I do. Myself and a few other players from back in the day I could name.

We didn't go chasing kills and leaving the bombers on their own.

 

It's just a different crowd, better immersion, better missions, and more fun.

Edited May 27, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin
Offensive lenguage

[SYN_Haashashin]

I think that if the devs ever decide to implement Coop capabilities most probably it will be like its in RoF right now, no app needed at all since it's built ingame. Maybe when/if they implement it a third party can come up with an app similar to HL or not.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Both Han and VikS have stated they are planning to add a coop mode once they can. I presume once time allows they will hook it up.

 

Don't forget people, the major players in this team were the same people who brought a very powerful server controller to the old Il-2, and the guys who ran the Air Domination War campaign. They know a whole lot about exciting online gameplay, and I'm positive they haven't forgotten their extensive experience in the field.

[LLv44_Damixu]

Actually I sketched some ideas for promoting more immersive multiplayer co-op gameplay. Please feel free and read my ideas and comment how you would like to see HyperLobbyesque function to be implemented best way possible.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22673-multiplayer-mission-briefing-room/

[BraveSirRobin]

I obviously don't understand this... but don't we have CoOps already?

 

If not, can someone please explain the difference between a "CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. To my mind, they are the same... players flying together online.

 

There is virtually no difference.  You can do almost everything with a dogfight mission in BoS/BoM that you can do with a coop mission.  I think there are 1 or 2 minor features that can't be done, but that's it.

[Sokol1]

For a simpler mission builder, there is always this: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14672-release-simple-3rd-party-mission-builder-bos/

It probably needs an update, and I don't think it currently supports MP, but it should be feasible for someone who knows java and web stuff.

 

This work well only for air start missions, no proper way to set missions with takeoff and landings, the map in this editor are only a static jpeg, not the actual 3D map, planes spawn anywhere.

[Brano]

Hyperlobby? Don't fool your selves. Put off those rose glasses and admit reality of 2016. It's not 2006 anymore. As Coconut stated in different thread... attempts were done,noone gave a shait.

[No601_Swallow]

I obviously don't understand this... but don't we have CoOps already?

 

If not, can someone please explain the difference between a "CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. To my mind, they are the same... players flying together online.

 

Here's my very own wall of text:

 

 

...The difference between coop and DF is in how missions start.

 

In a DF, the host starts the mission first and then people join when they want.

In coop, on the other hand, people join (ready-up) and then, after everyone's in their slots, the host starts the mission.

 

It's always seemed to me that the mix between human and AI participants. Is irrelevant. It's how the mission starts that makes the difference.

 

Now, from a mission design point of view, this difference was absolutely crucial. After all, the mission designer is making a mission where interesting stuff happens so he needs the players to be in a particular place at a particular time. Therefore timing is very important, and so the host clicking that "Start Mission" button and starting everything off in a coordinated way is the single most important event in the entire session. At least in IL2 '46.

 

My squadron's best mission designers were absolute artists because of the way they judged and manipulated timing in IL2 '46 missions.

 

Clod changed this a bit, with the introduction of a - very limited - array of triggers. But, to get anything more than the basic things to happen in CloD, you have to layer submission over submission within the main mission, and trigger them all through scripts. To say the least, scripting is a challenge if you're not a computer programmer. But it is possible to get sophisticated results with a hell of a lot of work and dedication. However, even now in CloD there are - what? - five or six people worldwide (!) who can put together really great missions and use CloD to its best potential.

 

Even so, CloD started to blur the distinction between DFand coop because of the possibilities that triggers offer.

 

Fast forward to DCS and, in particular, BoS. DCS has some very powerful and flexible trigger mechanisms, such that on the few occasions we've tried it as a squadron, the coop/DF thing just wasn't an issue.

 

And BoS. Now the thing about BoS is ABSOLUTELY EVERTHING MUST BE TRIGGERED. Every single element that you want to do anything at all in a mission must be triggered. It's like the total extreme of what was started in CloD (except - and thank you oh great God of mission builders - you don't need to use any scripting or programming to do it!).

 

Most obviously in BoS, mission elements can be triggered by the start of the mission itself. But they don't have to be. They can be triggered by the first person spawning in, or the tenth person spawning in, or the first person taking off, or the tenth person taking off. They can be triggered by players arriving at a point, or attacking a target, or getting shot down, or arriving back at base. Anything, almost.

 

What that in turn means is that the great mechanism the mission builder has built into the mission, all those cogs and events,etc, don't depend any more on the host clicking "Start Mission". All that worry about timing and so in is gone. Players can join when they want, in whatever order they want, and none of that mission mechanism will start to do its thing until the mission builder wants it to. Having everybody ready before starting the mission isn't important. Having everyone take off and form up in a timely manner isn't important. None of that matters, because the mission builder can make all the stuff happen whenever he wants it to,

 

So honestly: We don't need coop mode in BoS.

 

Do I wish there was a coop mode? Of course. Do I wish there was a HyperLobby? Of course. Jus the fact that I've had to spend half an hour typing this shows there's something wrong.

 

But it's not with the game, or with the way missions are run within the game. It's to do with the devs not explaining things, not having a mission editor guide, not helping us, etc. And it's to do with us players not putting the time in to learn the mission editor, play cooperatively, or really explore the possibilities that the game gives us.

 

Here endeth the wall of text.

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by No601_Swallow

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Hyperlobby? Don't fool your selves. Put off those rose glasses and admit reality of 2016. It's not 2006 anymore. As Coconut stated in different thread... attempts were done,noone gave a shait.

 

 

This.

[beepee]

 

But it's not with the game, or with the way missions are run within the game. It's to do with the devs not explaining things, not having a mission editor guide, not helping us, etc. And it's to do with us players not putting the time in to learn the mission editor, play cooperatively, or really explore the possibilities that the game gives us.

 

Well said.

[Sokol1]

 

 

If not, can someone please explain the difference between a "CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. 

 

More specifically:  the difference between a "IL-2 1946 CoOp" mission and a "Multiplayer" mission. 

 

Eg. In ARMA3 COOP one can join after mission start, is not need wait endless in host.

And in IL-2 1946 COOP in competitive situations is common someone broken the plane at takeoff  and beg to start the mission again, and so wait more ~10 minutes... meanwhile the smart guy are reviewing the track that he record to know the position of enemy bombers and targets.   

Edited May 28, 2016 by Sokol1

[Gambit21]

There is virtually no difference.  You can do almost everything with a dogfight mission in BoS/BoM that you can do with a coop mission.  I think there are 1 or 2 minor features that can't be done, but that's it.

 

Utter and complete rubbish, and spoken like someone who wasn't flying CoOps with us and probably should lend an opinion elsewhere, on other matters with

which he's more familiar.

 

The "minor" features completely change the nature of the play.

[BraveSirRobin]

Utter and complete rubbish, and spoken like someone who wasn't flying CoOps with us and probably should lend an opinion elsewhere, on other matters with

which he's more familiar.

 

The "minor" features completely change the nature of the play.

 

It's not rubbish at all, actually.  You just have no clue what can be done with the BoS/BoM mission editor.  Read Swallow's post.

[Gambit21]

I appreciate Swallow taking the time to type that - I learned a few things. Thanks Swallow.

 

However it was the same, or as good as it used to be, we wouldn't have thread after thread, post after posting about how multiplayer

is lacking compared to the old days. Then, maybe that comes back to what he said about documentation.

 

I am grateful for the time and effort some are putting in, but until I can build a mission, click a button in a central meeting place, and launch a dozen of us into

a hand crafted, choreographed mission I won't be happy with multiplayer. 

 

Sorry if I was abrasive in that other post Robin - I sometimes find the line between direct and rude get's blurred when I type.

[wtornado]

It's not rubbish at all, actually.  You just have no clue what can be done with the BoS/BoM mission editor.  Read Swallow's post.

I am starting to think that the engine is more limited than I even thought.

 

Well all this talk of creativity when all I want is closure and fix at least what has been addressed

to start off and then do the rest.

 

If not the game will end up like this.

 

 

 

 

The building that was never finished.

[No601_Swallow]

[i'd just like to add that even though I've stated we don't need coop mode in BoS, I actually really want one.

 

Ultimately, I'd like to be able to play my game, my MP session, the way I want to.

 

Strangely enough, I personally liked the ritual of picking a slot in HL and then in the '46 GUI. I liked readying up. I even liked joking around on comms with the moron who'd forgotten to click the "Ready" button. To be honest, I even liked the restarts. So, please, devs: add a RoF-style coop interface! We don't need it; the game doesn't need it; the missions don't need it... but I'd like it!] 

Edited May 28, 2016 by No601_Swallow

[BraveSirRobin]

However it was the same, or as good as it used to be, we wouldn't have thread after thread, post after posting about how multiplayer

is lacking compared to the old days. 

 

We have thread after thread about how MP is lacking because lots of people have no idea what you can do with the BoS/BoM mission builder.  We also have lots of people who spend a lot more time looking for problems than looking for solutions.

[Gambit21]

No, it's not about the mission editor, nor is it about people looking for problems.

It's about people already having experienced what's possible, and not having that same experience currently.

[BraveSirRobin]

It's about people already having experienced what's possible, and not having that same experience currently.

 

The type of mission that you want is already possible.  And yet you still complain...  

[Gambit21]

It's not just about the mission, but I can see there's no point in trying to explain this to you.

[BraveSirRobin]

It's not just about the mission, but I can see there's no point in trying to explain this to you.

 

You don't have to explain it.  I understand exactly what the issue is.

[seafireliv]

I miss hyperlobby. I remember how much of a pain it used to be when I first had it, then I got used to it, now I miss it. Ironic really, probably rose-tinted specs here.

 

One internet friend I know refuses to fly BOS because it doesn`t have a co op mode.

[DD_Arthur]

 

One internet friend I know refuses to fly BOS because it doesn`t have a co op mode.

 

I'm a member of a whole squad who won't play it because it hasn't got a co-op mode.

[SYN_Mike77]

Ok, so I just got done with about 3 hours flying on line with 6-8 of my squadron members. We all got together on teamspeak and decdided to head on over to the EU72DED expert server.  We then all spawned in together and flew several missions together.  At the conclusion of a misssion we would all decide which planes we wanted to fly and then took off on another mission together.  It was great fun!.  If we wanted to do the same vs ai on our own server we could by just setting up a password.  How is this different than the glorious days of yore?

[BraveSirRobin]

Ok, so I just got done with about 3 hours flying on line with 6-8 of my squadron members. We all got together on teamspeak and decdided to head on over to the EU72DED expert server. We then all spawned in together and flew several missions together. At the conclusion of a misssion we would all decide which planes we wanted to fly and then took off on another mission together. It was great fun!. If we wanted to do the same vs ai on our own server we could by just setting up a password. How is this different than the glorious days of yore?

It's no longer called a "coop" mission now. Apparently that's a big deal.

[SYN_Mike77]

and instead of hyperlobby we have teamspeak? 

[BraveSirRobin]

and instead of hyperlobby we have teamspeak? 

 

Sorry, Teamspeak has to be renamed "Hyperlobby" or it's just not the same.

[BraveSirRobin]

I'm a member of a whole squad who won't play it because it hasn't got a co-op mode.

 

That's probably not something you should brag about.

[wtornado]

That's probably not something you should brag about.

Brag?

 

Its freaking sad.

[BraveSirRobin]

Brag?

 

Its freaking sad.

 

True.  But not for the reasons that you think it's sad.