How Popular is Multiplayer?

[Porkins]

I've gotten into a couple MP matches since I purchased BoS a few months ago. It's been very interesting, but I can't help but notice only a couple of servers populated when I have checked, mostly in evenings, PST. Is there a decent MP community for BoS?

[Finkeren]

3-4 populated servers plus a few with a handful of people is as good as it gets I'm afraid. It's a bit better around the time a major update is released, but it quickly drops down again.

 

I wouldn't take that as an indication, that only a few hundred people ever fly this sim, though. There are a lot of dark numbers, that you don't see from a quick glance at the server list.

 

First of all, a lot of people, a majority even, play SP almost exclusively and rarely if ever show up online.

 

Second, most dedicated BoS/BoM players are much older than the average gamer (a lot of people in the 40 - 60yrs range) these people may play online and enjoy it quite a bit for a few hours a week and still be dedicated community members, but they just don't have several hours per day to sink into online play the way younger gamers have. That makes the servers appear empty most of the time, but the total number of players over the week is actually fairly high.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

There is a decent multiplayer community. The top two servers are Wings of Liberty and DED Expert Random Beta(my personal favorite). Generally there are people on at least one of those servers almost 24/7, with both filling up between 0900 PST and 1900 PST.  I would say that there are only a couple servers that really fill up because there are only a couple servers that have created an environment conducive to large player numbers with an engaging mission environment.

 

It's getting better.  And the more people that jump on, the more others will be encouraged to do so. 

[SCG_Tzigy]

i am addicted, wish I could fly daily, also wish more people would fly when I HAVE time to get online...

[Godfather_Actual]

There is a decent size community playin online for the good majority of the time. I rarely play SP and mostly on MP servers like Wings of Liberty and DED. Unfortunately, the PST zone is tougher to find full servers because most of the players are in Europe. Im on EST so sometimes I am able to get on when they are still around. On weekend its definitely popping though. If you have Teamspeak and a mic you can always hop on the official IL2 BOS TS server. 8.3.5.133:9407 password bos2014 

I and a few others get on it when we are flying on the MP servers.

[Fidelity]

The community is slowly growing. There used to only be 5-10 people on when I play late at night. Now it's typically 15-20.

 

The earlier you play the more players are on. The European community is much larger and they will max out servers from time to time.

 

Join the fun and before you know it there will be more people to play with. Just a matter of time as people move up from Warthunder and over from IL2:CLOD.

[Sgt_Joch]

As stated above, you just have to know when to fly. My only real window for MP is weekend morning (EST), but at that time, you can find many european servers with 20-30.

 

It is also peak time to play against the russians, some are really good. You have not lived until you have been bounced at 6km by a La-5. make sure you look up and down.

[TheElf]

Multiplayer Community will grow once we start to see a broader sampling of Aircraft an Theaters.  Right now, unfortunately the maturity of the game's content hurts the multiplayer draw, particularly in the number of Western and Far East Servers.  Some of us brave the high-latency Russian a European servers, but with the Shuttering of Fighting Legends there really are only a handful of good Full switch servers and of those only Wings of Liberty has a strong population to make MP exciting most hours of the day. 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Concurrent players is one thing, those you probably know.  Between 60-84 per server in the afternoon ET.  Evenings ET it drops off.

 

Total mp players with over an hour of flight time on the two most populated "expert" servers are:

 

..............Jan........Dec

DED......448.........203

WOL.....676.........830

 

Obviously there is overlap of pilots flying on both.

Edited January 18, 2016 by 12.OIAE_Stick-95

[Porkins]

Thanks for the replies!

[Feathered_IV]

Judging from the numbers of people playing in MP, either the overwhelming majority of Il-2 customers are single players, or a huge amount of people have bought the game and are no longer using the software.  If the former, I'd be curious to know what the devs plan to do to capitalise on the SP user base.  If the latter, I wonder if they have done any research on why the players left and how to win them back.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Feathered_IV

[Brano]

I have many games which I dont play anymore/very often.Arma2/3,Euro Truck Simulator,Skyrim,DCS,Europa Universalis....and not because they are bad/porked/boring,but simply Im not in mood to play them+free time dedicated to other activities.In fact,last time I played BoS it was just before christmas when MiG-3 has been released.Since then I didnt fire up the game.Holidays,drinking and other means of socializing and such.I guess Im not an exception here

Devs have very good overview who do what about the game,you need to log in to their server to play the game.They are watching you

[steppenwolf]

Judging from the numbers of people playing in MP, either the overwhelming majority of Il-2 customers are single players, or a huge amount of people have bought the game and are no longer using the software.  If the former, I'd be curious to know what the devs plan to do to capitalise on the SP user base.  If the latter, I wonder if they have done any research on why the players left and how to win them back.

You're so tactful Feathered_IV.  

[312_Tygr]

Speaking as one of those who have "left"

 

What I think BoS lacks in general (and some other sims have):

 

- I'm a sucker for realism. Kind of a "learning curve masochist". Flying BoS planes is too easy for me. The number of concessions to casual gamers that has made its way into the game is mind-boggling. Yes I know some of them can be turned off - but many can't.

 

As for multiplayer in particular:

 

- I'm a sucker for realism. Online engagements in BoS are quite far removed from any conceivable real-life situation. Plus they're repetitive - fly a Bf, climb, swoop down on Russians, climb again, rinse, repeat. Fly a Yak, wait for Germans to make a mistake, or spend hours hanging on your prop waiting for Germans to make a mistake. Yawn. Yes, you can try and fly using real life tactics etc. And get shot down time and again by respawn monkeys. 

 

- no coop missions. I know - a lot can be done even with the current setup, creative mission editing, etc. Yet nobody does that - it's all endless take-off/crash/respawn... gets boring. The server most online players default to is the most gamey of them all. We old farts have a word for that - "air quake".

 

- No teamplay and coordination needed. Gets real boring. 

 

So - I'll most likely just continue doing what I do (flying other, more realistic sims). I'll probably fire up BoS from time to time to check what has changed, and I have great hopes for PWCG as well to at least improve SP experience... 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

At Tygr

 

A lot of what u don't like can be easily solved with a quick chat to some people on TS. With this kinda game you need to make the effort to find and chat to people to get the full experience

[unreasonable]

Judging from the numbers of people playing in MP, either the overwhelming majority of Il-2 customers are single players, or a huge amount of people have bought the game and are no longer using the software.  If the former, I'd be curious to know what the devs plan to do to capitalise on the SP user base.  If the latter, I wonder if they have done any research on why the players left and how to win them back.

 

+1, but I would just like to add to the bold phrases the words "or both".

 

I suspect some in that category - ie SP but not currently playing - are, like me, waiting for the Moscow module to be completed before giving it a go. If the developers want me to spend much more time on the BoS campaign they are going to have to let me adjust my pilot "level" so that I can play how I want to play, not according to their notions of what is fun.

[Tenko]

Best times are in UK/US cross over where you get awake players. ive played with a max of 18 people(at one time) over the last few months,most of which are a group of friends so once one leaves, they all leave. If you see a server with a low amount and theirs no others, join it.

 

ONe of the downsides of this this game is the Lack of online players. Im really glad I paid the low price that I did, because ive asked before, what the online population was and most players link or reminisce about when the game was in its prime(years ago) having "full" servers.

 

If you love the P51D,Spitfire,P47,FW190,Bf109 I would go pickup those from DCS, that way you're flying the full experience with less than a handful of people.

[KoN_]

What does the SP offer once the campaign has been completed .

Is There nothing left but MP .

Edited January 19, 2016 by II/JG77_Con

[Guest deleted@1562]

I like the two single player campaigns made by the community. And of course there is PWCG as an external "career mission generator".

[unreasonable]

What does the SP offer once the campaign has been completed .

Is There nothing left but MP .

 

1) I have not even completed the SP campaign - the pilot leveling stuff (among other things) made it stop being fun well before that.

2) If a campaign is fun, it can be fun again - with a new aircraft type, we have plenty to choose from, or even just doing it again dead-is-dead.

 The best SP games have plenty of replayability.

 

MP is OK, I can see why people like it and have had some fun there myself - but it is potentially more repetitive than a well designed SP campaign/career.

 

Anyway. OP was asking about MP specifically, do not want to divert thread (too much ). 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Pacific time (evenings) is rough. You can always just do ground pounding I guess, no-one to shoot you down...

[Brano]

Well,I see it differently. Comparing what we had in MP like a year ago and now is big progress.Also number of pilots is increasing.Just from our decimated tiny Czechoslovak community,many earlier naysayers and fence-sitters are joining in.It will only get better. Stay positive

[Porkins]

I'm not even 1/3 through the SP campaign, so I have quite a lot of offline content to go through (not to mention the mission editor and PWCG, which I have not tried). I'm still interested in MP though, as it was watching MP Youtube vids that really got me interested in the game. 

 

If I were to critique BoS in general, my biggest complaint would be that it has absolutely zero tutorial options that I am aware of, while also having a fairly high learning curve. I stuck with it and figured it out, but it took me hours of messing around with HOTAS setups and crashing and burning constantly. Most people don't have that patience. If the devs want to open up the player base for BoS and BoM, then a decent flight tutorial would help. Expanding the player base in general would add to the MP servers as well. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

I was a very dedicated online player in the original IL2 series.

 

I have tried to get up to speed with online play in this sim, and I'm just not feeling the love anymore.

 

I enjoy the sim for just flying around offline and sightseeing, operating the aircraft, doing touch and goes, etc...  But, when it comes to combat, the wobbly flight dynamics just kill it for me.  I am grateful to those that have offered suggestions to make flying better, but they are just treating the symptoms, not the disease.  Virtual air combat is hard enough, I should not have to fight my adversary and my own aircraft at the same time, it's just no fun, and it's sad, because I really miss flying.

 

I keep coming back here to the forums to check and see if thing are improving, looking for any hope that I can enjoy it again, was very hopeful about the introduction of the P 40, but, we know how that went.

 

Maybe the P 39 will be better, if we ever get it.

 

Maybe the global physics issues that cause the wobbles will be fixed.

 

I keep hoping I can do this again.

[KoN_]

I was a very dedicated online player in the original IL2 series.

 

I have tried to get up to speed with online play in this sim, and I'm just not feeling the love anymore.

 

I enjoy the sim for just flying around offline and sightseeing, operating the aircraft, doing touch and goes, etc...  But, when it comes to combat, the wobbly flight dynamics just kill it for me.  I am grateful to those that have offered suggestions to make flying better, but they are just treating the symptoms, not the disease.  Virtual air combat is hard enough, I should not have to fight my adversary and my own aircraft at the same time, it's just no fun, and it's sad, because I really miss flying.

 

I keep coming back here to the forums to check and see if thing are improving, looking for any hope that I can enjoy it again, was very hopeful about the introduction of the P 40, but, we know how that went.

 

Maybe the P 39 will be better, if we ever get it.

 

Maybe the global physics issues that cause the wobbles will be fixed.

 

I keep hoping I can do this again.

Try vjoy .

google vjoy setup .

You can move curves on the fly in the game or out of the game i use it . But i hear its my pilot skills or lack of ,  that is causing the wobbly flight dynamics . lol . 

some people are just so rude .

[BlitzPig_EL]

Thanks Con, I'll give it a look.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The online community is four to five times stronger than a year ago. I generally fly early weekday afternoons PST and mid morning on Sundays. A year ago there were three or four servers with approximately 40-50 flyers between them. It was kind of exciting to see thirty on a single server or sixty between them back then. In the last two weeks I've noted three to four times that total on the weekdays and nearly 220, split between several servers, on the last two Sunday flight times. So it is growing, albeit not as quickly as we'd like. I am hoping a year from now there will be a true lobby and a thousand (OK, 500?) on any given Sunday.

 

I am fortunate my work schedule allows me to fly when I do. If I had a normal 9-5 PST I'm sure I'd be frustrated as well. We need a MED/ETO/PTO module to get the Western community involved. When that happens the Western servers will follow. I really believe it would be a self fulfilling prophecy. The game has really improved in MANY aspects and a good NA/EU set would really wow many new and old pilots.

 

As it stands, the current aircraft lineup, pilots, time zones and servers are significantly hindering that expansion into the Western market. We can yell Western bias, Eastern bias all day but the reality is there is money on the table that is not being captured at the moment. Money that could be used to improve the current game, which I play almost every day, fund technology advancements (engine/DX/etc) and expand employees, facilities, maps, AC and scenarios as well.

 

The game is really starting to shine, MP continues to expand and I am generally happy with it. I hope for continued success and for the expansion of technology, toys and theaters.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The online community is four to five times stronger than a year ago.

Maybe because exactly a year ago Mp server player limit was castrated to 33 max. Upon release we already had servers running 70-80 people frequently (Syndicate, Eagles Nest). Biggest server by than had max 100 player slots.

 

What we have now is a good recovery similar to what was going on back than, but in terms of server selection and how many good pilots had been lost over time I'd still say it's inferiour to last year Oktober-November aktivity.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Possible, but at least it IS recovering.

[WokeUpDead]

I was a very dedicated online player in the original IL2 series.

 

I have tried to get up to speed with online play in this sim, and I'm just not feeling the love anymore.

 

I enjoy the sim for just flying around offline and sightseeing, operating the aircraft, doing touch and goes, etc...  But, when it comes to combat, the wobbly flight dynamics just kill it for me.  I am grateful to those that have offered suggestions to make flying better, but they are just treating the symptoms, not the disease.  Virtual air combat is hard enough, I should not have to fight my adversary and my own aircraft at the same time, it's just no fun, and it's sad, because I really miss flying.

 

Hey BlitzPig, similar story here, I played lots of online.  I also found the BoS wobbles very tough; I could still fly the planes well enough but my gunnery was awful.  However, it's a problem that can be overcome.  Some of it may be tweaking your joystick curve settings, but for me the biggest difference was changing the types of shots I take.  

 

In 1946 I could consistently hit straight flying targets from direct six at a distance of 600m or even more, in BoS that's much harder so I don't even try.  I could also get solid hits on maneuvering targets from 300m, but in BoS trying those shots is mostly a waste of ammo.  

 

I think the main solution to gunnery problems for players used to 1946 planes that fly like they're on rails is simple: get a lot closer to your target.  The good news is that once you do get very close, it's actually easier to hit targets in BoS than it is in 1946:

• In 1946 you could hear a plane 150-200m behind you, in BoS you practically have to touch your opponent for him to hear you
• In 1946 most planes are much snappier and can dance around your gunsight (the infamous pinwheeling fw190 that's impossible to hit with nose-guns comes to mind), you almost have to keep them at a bit of a distance to keep good track of them.  In BoS planes have a worse instantaneous turn and roll rate which prevents them from getting out of your gunsight so easily
• The graphics in 1946 made it easier to spot opponents creeping up to you on your six, in BoS you're not a crisp dark and easy to spot pixel against a bland sky or ground when you're trying to sneak up and get close to an opponent

Also, if you check out the gunnery stats of BoS servers you'll see that the players have figured it out: the best ones have hit rates approaching 15% just like in 1946, and decent pilots can hit at a 3-5% rate just like on good 1946 servers.

[FS_Fenice_1965]

Hi Wokeup, glad to see you here.

In my opinion many simmers communities still have difficulties entering BOS arena.

"Lack" of an easy to setup coop mode is one of the main problems, but it is not alone.

Building missions is a lot harder than it was on IL2 And missions are the fuel of every multiplayer game mode. It is a lot more difficult in BOS for an average mission builder to create missions of high quality, not to talk of the fact that mission builder is more tecnician oriented that game oriented. Full mission builder in IL2 was more attractive for the average gamer (a game within the game)

Also, with IL2 was a lot easier to insert lot of AI planes or vehicles without hurting multiplayer performances. I know that the main cause is the complexity of the FM but in certain mission designs it would be useful to trade some of that complexity with a bigger number of objects to use (bomber formations as first...).

 

With IL2 was possible to fire up a multiplayer session in seconds. Here every player needs to setup a dedicated server.

In IL2 I have seen a lot of players migrating from coops to servers and viceversa, chatting together with Hyperlobby and inviting each other to play.

With BOS the possibility of starting MP or interacting between Pilots is someway "limited", compared to what we were used to do.

Just my humble opinion

Edited January 20, 2016 by FS_Fenice_1965

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The devs offer a BoS TS server at least which unfortunately is rarely populated, which certainly is not their fault. If more people would fire it up organisations and teamflying would move large steps ahead of what we have now for sure.

 

If you are looking for fun online events I can wholeheartly recommend to try the Friday Night Bomber Flights missions. It's probably the most tactical and teamplay orientated flying expirience you can have in MP atm.

[No601_Swallow]

Hi Wokeup, glad to see you here.

...Building missions is a lot harder than it was on IL2 And missions are the fuel of every multiplayer game mode. It is a lot more difficult in BOS for an average mission builder to create missions of high quality, not to talk of the fact that mission builder is more tecnician oriented that game oriented. Full mission builder in IL2 was more attractive for the average gamer (a game within the game)...

 

I'm going to disagree with that. 

 

The "Mission Editor" (ME) - the "FMB" for BoS - is very different to that for IL2 '46 and the basic (non-scripting) CloD FMB, and certainly I found it quite hard to get my head around.

 

There's a big "but" (fnar, fnar) coming up:

 

But... there are some great tutorials and manuals that hand-hold you through the difficult new concepts, and so on, as well as all the legacy material from Rise of Flight mission making.

 

And once you're up and running, you can create more or less anything quickly and easily. Not only that, once you have a "bank" of mission elements you know work (that you've built yourself or you've shamelessly 'liberated' from other missions - including official and campaign ones), you can just slot them together like Lego. Honestly, it's easy.

 

Not only that, the kinds of sophisticated tools that in other sims you needed to write in Luascript (I think that's correct) or some species of Visual C (? I think...) are all available to you "graphically" as mission elements that you place on the map.

 

Honestly, have a look in the mission makers' forum for earnest, friendly and supportive help. The Mission Makers' Forum - where everyone wears elbow patches. And they're cool! 

 

Dai, Fenice! Provalo ancora! Toppe sui gomiti - Stupende!

Edited January 20, 2016 by No601_Swallow

[FS_Fenice_1965]

Hi Swallow,

First of all thx for your great tutorial. I agree in many aspects. I personally have learned a lot from yours tutorial and from the forum and have started building some missions worth being used in a server, even if still far from the best I have seen.

Anyway I probably cannot be considered an average mission builder, considered the hours I have put on 1946 FMB earlier and BOS ME now and considered the fact that I build missions with the aim of feeding a public server.

I remember clearly when I started learning IL2 FMB. In a few hours I was able to create a mission not so different from the standard.

Later on most of the time spent building missions was dedicated to the study of the historical event I was interested to recreate and on the toughts about the way to recreate it. Now most of the time is spent studying the Logic of the MCU. The role of the builder was more like a movie director, now is more like being an engineer.

What I mean is that we should address the average gamer also in this aspect of the game and in the other aspects linked with multiplayer. It is not enough to help beginners with mouse controls. Players need to be helped being part of the multiplayer community if we want to see it grow

Edited January 20, 2016 by FS_Fenice_1965

[Sokol1]

And once you're up and running, you can create more or less anything quickly and easily. Not only that, once you have a "bank" of mission elements you know work (that you've built yourself or you've shamelessly 'liberated' from other missions - including official and campaign ones), you can just slot them together like Lego. Honestly, it's easy.

 

True, is just like learn Autocad, Corel, Photoshop...

 

But the fact is this ME still far away from il-2'46 ME/COOP easiness and accessibility for non mission makers players.

I know a guy that did countless MP missions for 1946, but still "frozen" in ME - and turn off their incipient BoS MP server... 

[Guest deleted@13284]

I'm always struggling to find a populated server with decent numbers (GMT).Being a mouse player I'm excluded from some of the more popular ones (WoL) for instance. I only fly the IL-2 and PE-2 for ground attack and often find team numbers out of balance.Tonight the enemy team outnumbered us 2 to 1 and there was little chance of me getting unmolested to the target area but I always try to persevere even against such odds.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

I'm always struggling to find a populated server with decent numbers (GMT).Being a mouse player I'm excluded from some of the more popular ones (WoL) for instance. I only fly the IL-2 and PE-2 for ground attack and often find team numbers out of balance.Tonight the enemy team outnumbered us 2 to 1 and there was little chance of me getting unmolested to the target area but I always try to persevere even against such odds.

 

Lister..... you HAVE to get a joystick. Honestly, there is no point trying to fly a sim of this calibre with a mouse.

[Ace_Pilto]

I'm always struggling to find a populated server with decent numbers (GMT).Being a mouse player I'm excluded from some of the more popular ones (WoL) for instance. I only fly the IL-2 and PE-2 for ground attack and often find team numbers out of balance.Tonight the enemy team outnumbered us 2 to 1 and there was little chance of me getting unmolested to the target area but I always try to persevere even against such odds.

 

Get a stick Dave. Dave get a stick. Get a stick Dave. 

 

If you've read the books you'll understand. (Hint: They're all dead Dave)

 

Even with a stick though, it will be a while before you stand a chance.

[FranjoFlyer]

Just picked up this game, I have TrackIR5, x52 pro along with CH Pro Pedals.  

 

The multiplayer servers you have listed in this thread, are these vanilla versions of IL-2 or modded servers?  I've only installed the game overnight, have not fired it up yet.  Looking forward to it.

[No601_Swallow]

Hi Swallow,

First of all thx for your great tutorial. I agree in many aspects. I personally have learned a lot from yours tutorial and from the forum and have started building some missions worth being used in a server, even if still far from the best I have seen.

Anyway I probably cannot be considered an average mission builder, considered the hours I have put on 1946 FMB earlier and BOS ME now and considered the fact that I build missions with the aim of feeding a public server.

I remember clearly when I started learning IL2 FMB. In a few hours I was able to create a mission not so different from the standard.

Later on most of the time spent building missions was dedicated to the study of the historical event I was interested to recreate and on the toughts about the way to recreate it. Now most of the time is spent studying the Logic of the MCU. The role of the builder was more like a movie director, now is more like being an engineer.

What I mean is that we should address the average gamer also in this aspect of the game and in the other aspects linked with multiplayer. It is not enough to help beginners with mouse controls. Players need to be helped being part of the multiplayer community if we want to see it grow

 

Fenice, it pains me to admit it, but the ME guide (and youtube tutorials) are written by my squadron mate and general genius-with-astonishing-patience, Prangster (available here), not by me. Personally, I got started with with Bob Vanderstock's great Rise of Flight tutorials here. (Prangster, by the way, built the De Havilland Mosquito for IL2. I feel cool just typing my name in the same sentence as his!)

 

But yes - and this is true for Sokol's friend too - it is difficult to get started - to understand the basic logic. You place objects on the map, but you also place "behaviours" or instructions that you graphically link to the objects and to the next instructions, building up a chain of instructions for objects, like waypoints, etc. It's hard to understand that an AI aeroplane, for instance, sitting on a runway will do absolutely nothing until you link it to an instruction to take off - and that instruction itself will not "fire" until you tell it to (usually by linking it with a "Mission Begin" event, which you also place on the map).

 

It's really difficult to grasp at first, but soon you start to understand how easy and flexible it is to make a mission do all sorts of seriously cool stuff.... 

 

[Edit: I understand your beautiful point about in '46 a mission builder could be a movie director, and in BoS he's more like an engineer. I think you're right... but maybe, after we've got the "groups" organised (chains of objects and MCUs that we've saved and can slot together and adapt), we can start to call ourselves... architects! You see: elbow patches!  ]

 

...As for coop     ... My squadron worked sooooooooo hard to use CloD for the coops we wanted to do (IL2 '46 coops, basically), and even at the end, it worked sometimes and it didn't work sometimes. Even now, our website still has (I think) a CloD "Airfield Workshop" to try to organise runway spawning (or any type of spawning that reliably worked...). 

 

Now, we've found that - yes, we still miss the ease of hosting and starting a hyperlobby coop. Why oh why, you gifted devs, can't you give us squadrons what we want?      It was easy, it worked, it was fun... But luckily, after you've sorted out building missions (or downloading other people's missions, and after you've sorted out running a dServer - DServer! Why?!!!  ... after all that, BoS missions work great as coops.

 

(The reason is that nothing in the mission does anything until you tell it to, so you can easily tell everything in the mission to start or appear or start doing stuff whenever you want - five minutes after the first person has spawned in, say, or thirty seconds after the fifth person takes off, or when everyone is 10km from the target zone, or 500m from the bombers they're supposed to be escorting, etc, etc. TIming events, etc, is not important any more, because anything can be triggered at any stage. Easy. Suddenly, simply hitting "Start Mission" isn't the crucial thing for the coop any more. It's coooool!

 

Coops are still much harder than they should be, though. Bring back HL, that's what I say!

 

[Ends lecture.]

Edited January 21, 2016 by No601_Swallow