Telemetry Data Export

[Husam]

Hello,

 

I am about to make Motion Flight Simulator

Can you tell me if IL2 can export Position data like Pitch, Roll and Yaw?

 

Thank you 

[Jason_Williams]

Husam,

 

No we do not provide that info. I wish we did, but we don't.

 

Jason

[-TBC-AeroAce]

That's a real shame actually. I really hope this can be implemented as many things could be done with this data

Edited January 19, 2016 by [TBC]AeroACE

[frenchfly]

I'm really hoping this could be done, would be nice to use my motion seat with this game. Most other flight sims provide this as do most racing sims.

Edited February 8, 2016 by frenchfly

[Flying_Colander]

I'm sorry too that the telemetry data is hidden. I think Cliffs of Dover had a good compromise. Single player mode allowed for the export of data whilst on-line telemetry was hidden for cheating concerns. Maybe we can hope the devs allow for single player telemetry.

 

Simtools does have a work around in the form of an input controller plug-in. Telemetry from the joystick is used to drive the motion controller. Yank the joystick left, the motion platform tilts to port. Purists will argue this is arcade-ish but I think when you're diving away from a scharm of 109s you'll forget the maths.

 

Cheers,

 

Flying Colander

[curiousGamblerr]

Husam,

 

No we do not provide that info. I wish we did, but we don't.

 

Jason

Jason, quick question-

 

I understand that gauge information will be exposed in the future (as part of BoK changes iirc). Will physics data like that referenced in this thread also be exposed as part of that feature, or just the gauge readings?

 

Thanks!

[LLv44_Damixu]

How do you cheat using read-only data?

[Pupo]

How do you cheat using read-only data?

 

you can program a bot to read the data and help you control the airplane for one. To a human pilot is sort of hard to keep the plane flying at optimal velocity, ideal angle of attack during turns and avoid stall buffers, for a computer it is not. 

[curiousGamblerr]

you can program a bot to read the data and help you control the airplane for one. To a human pilot is sort of hard to keep the plane flying at optimal velocity, ideal angle of attack during turns and avoid stall buffers, for a computer it is not. 

 

Basically create 'fly-by-wire' and other modern assistance technologies for WWII aircraft ha now that is an awesome idea! Would be one heck of an interesting programming project. 

[Pupo]

Basically create 'fly-by-wire' and other modern assistance technologies for WWII aircraft ha now that is an awesome idea! Would be one heck of an interesting programming project. 

 

Indeed it is but with somewhat not cool side effects. You can do this in COD if you like (altough as someone mentioned you wont be able to use it online) it's really fun to see what you can or you can't do. I managed to go as far as having a text warning sign warning me about stall and a engine tip sugestion for ideal performance, but was never able to loop them back so the controller did everything by itself. If you are into that kind of stuff COD is a great toolbox for that!

[Dakpilot]

Pretty sure I have seen pics of people using second screens with instruments/virtual panel in CLoD using device link when flying online, I even had a discussion here with someone saying it gave you no advantage using online

 

perhaps someone could clarify that it is not possible?

 

Device link enabling full home cockpit use and panels etc. is great for immersion and is a needed thing, but does leave huge exploit potential if allowed to be used online.

 

The lengths that some go to cheat is quite baffling, yet if there is an exploit open some will use it

 

having a second screen always in field of view with clear engine gauges and temp, stall warning lights etc. etc. is not cheating per se but certainly an advantage in overall situational awareness.

 

I am all for it , but one has to be aware which cat you are letting out of the bag regarding implementation

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Sokol1]

CLoD Virtual Panel - see instruments in second monitor /tablet/smartphone can be used online, and give the same "advantage" that  TrackIR, 3 monitors, HOTAS, Next Gen pedals, fast CPU etc. give for the ones that use this over the ones that not use, but don't make anyone ace per si.

 

Telemetry is other history.

 

VC is more a "cool thing to have" - but distracts - really help to deal with the idiot solution used in this game for see P-8 compass in Spit/Hurri, allowing only ones with TrackIR see this compass without became a contortionist, in VC can be fixed the lack of lubber line in this P-8 instrument 3D (one of the endless CLoD defects/bug list) making then more comprehensive.

 

Game export data is really interesting for this kind of people.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Sokol1

[frenchfly]

Ok I'm bumping this thread because we really need some accessible telemetry data for this game, now that vr is becoming a reality why not this. If DCS allows it then why not IL-2. I'm able to run the old IL2 on my motion seat.

 

Is this not made available because it's hard to implement technically or is it a philosophical decision?

 

F

[Dakpilot]

Seeing as TacView is coming soon I guess this will be addressed 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[coconut]

Dak, I started writing the same comment then realized there are two different related features: recording flight and battle data for deferred viewing, or real time export of flight data for virtual cockpits. One is coming, but the other probably won't be available, or if so only in SP

[Flying_Colander]

I wanted to float an idea to the developers regarding flight motion rigs.

 

I understand that exporting exact gaming telemetry is a: complicated to program and b: opens the game to cheating.

 

Is there way to capture the input from the joystick/rudder? Motion software can operate on a joystick plug-in too. Pull back on the stick and the motion rig rocks back. Would this be an easy compromise to get an approximation of 3 degrees of movement?

 

What about impact information? The latest motion control software from xsimulator.net -- SimTools v2.0 -- includes programmable bass shaker effects. Bullet strikes, undercarriage bumps, trundling along a grass runway can be assigned individual characteristics rather than being determined by threshold or peak from an audio signal.

 

Thoughts?

[GrendelsDad]

Colander excellent post. I can't express how much grit bass shakers add to this game with the audio signal alone. I could only imagine the effects like you say. Tuning the engine to rumble like the race cars they are. I did some simcommander tuning with my engine in Assetto Corsa that was amazing.

Edited February 28, 2017 by II./ZG1_GrendelsDad

[scrapmetal]

I've bolted to my flight chair a £15 bass woofer transducer. The added immersion in VR is wonderful. Short of learning to fly for real, the next step in my dream is to add a motion platform. So what I gather from reading the previous posts is that the only reason the telemetry is not available, right now, for single player, is purely down to lack of human resource? So that means the potential still exists, in the future. If I start building the motion platform soon, telemetry may arrive just in time! I can be a bit of a dreamer..

Edited May 16, 2017 by scarletscala

[CXCSimulations]

We would be really interested in this as well.

 

We manufacture full-motion racing and flight simulators used by professionals and entertainment facilities: http://www.cxcsimulations.com/

 

Flying IL2 in VR with a large, full-motion simulator sounds like bliss!

 

 

If cheating is a concern, what about exposing the values only to registered and "trusted" simulator manufactures?  Heck, you could even charge us a premium for a "developer license" or "commercial-use license".  This way, you can offset the development costs and imprint licenses that could ever be maliciously used.

 

Honestly though, so many simulator racing and flight software games output telemetry these days and none seem to have issues with cheating that I know of.  

 

 

Devs:  Feel free to ping me if you want to offline this discussion to email.  We'd be happy to chat about the many possibilities.

[ThomasKrainer]

We would be interested as well,

 

Check out our smaller mobile version, also available for commercial use:

http://www.accelid.com

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=accelid

 

It is really not fully understandable why no API is provided. Take into account that a lot of promoting would be possible with motion simulators.

 

You can contact us any time.

[Jason_Williams]

Because we don't like creating APIs open to everyone. Why don't you motion guys give us your API that we can build to. That's what is "not fully understandable" to us. This is also why we do not have an instrument API. Someone build something we can export to in a secure way and I can try to find the time to do it. We get tired of creating stuff and wasting a lot of time and money only to have it abused or use it to give us a hard time. I also only have ONE programmer and his time is limited and we have lots of higher priority stuff to work on.

 

Jason

[ThomasKrainer]

Hi Jason,

 

Well normally the typical behaviour of a motion simulator user is to adapt the different forces/orientation/velocities to his need.

So an open Interface is easier to modify for the end user.

Unfortunately there is no standardized Motion Interface available, but we support many different communication protocols for our software.

If you manage to send "reasonable" data via UDP/TCP/MMF we are happy. Our interface is completely open to developers.

"Reasonable" means that we would have to check how the motion "feels". Some people only take orientation (pitch/roll) with overlaid angular acceleration values (delta pitch/roll/yaw).

 

If you are interested please come back to us

 

regards,

Thomas

[CXCSimulations]

Hi Jason,

 

I totally understand.  We can certainly assist with an API we design specifically for your title.  We are open to anything really.

 

Perhaps you could come visit us in LA?  We'd love to show you around the facility and chat about how to make it work.  Our office and manufacturing facility is right next to LAX.

 

Even if you can't visit, we'd love to keep the channel open.  Maybe even a conference call?

 

Let me know.  As I said, we are open to anything.  

[Jason_Williams]

Hi Jason,

 

I totally understand.  We can certainly assist with an API we design specifically for your title.  We are open to anything really.

 

Perhaps you could come visit us in LA?  We'd love to show you around the facility and chat about how to make it work.  Our office and manufacturing facility is right next to LAX.

 

Even if you can't visit, we'd love to keep the channel open.  Maybe even a conference call?

 

Let me know.  As I said, we are open to anything.  

 

Just send as a proprietary API to build to and I'll try to get some time to support it. This is what we did with TacView.  

 

Jason

[I./JG68_Sperber]

I am the first customer

[value1]

Just send as a proprietary API to build to and I'll try to get some time to support it. This is what we did with TacView.  

 

Jason

Hi Jason

 

I can fully follow your frustration about abuse of any API to cheat. The motivation of a motion platform is not cheating but game immersion.

There is no proprietary API in SimTools but SimTools is adopted to the simulation. We have plugins coded in VB.net, C++, Pascal (or Delphi), Rubi, LUA, etc., etc. reading from UDP, TCP, MMF, RAM, … whatever is needed.

The data we need all for motion simulation is primarily is pitch, roll, yaw, pitch speed (rad/sec), roll speed, yaw speed as well as vertical, longitudinal and lateral acceleration. The risk of abuse of this data is quite limited, I would imagine.

Thank you very much for your support in advance!

 

Thomas

[yobuddy]

Hi Jason,

I would like to congratulate you on your games, and just how popular they are buddy!

I work on SimTools over at xsimulator.net and the people their are always chatting about the games on the forums.

 

Being how many times I have been asked for plugins for your games, I thought I would try to help and show a simple way to implement telemetry with no negative affects for anyone that does not use telemetry. Because it only outputs one single string, there is a very limited chance of anyone abusing it for any reason.

 

I wrote the following example code in VB.net, as its dead simple to read and see what I’m doing.

Basically thou, I’m creating a looping background thread that builds and sends the needed output with UDP.

Once you have ‘something like’ this code in the game, all you have to do is:

Call ‘Start_Telemetry_Output()’ when the game starts up.

And ‘Stop_Telemety_Output()’ when the game shuts down.

 

 

First, I would suggest a ‘Telemetry.cfg’ file that holds the motion configuration for the game.

You may already have a configuration file for the game that you want to put these settings in, this is just an example.

The Telemetry.cfg file holds these 4 settings:

- Enable_Telemetry = False

- IpAddress = 127.0.0.1

- Port = 4123

- MS_OutputRate = 10

 

 

Ok, now some code:

 

Option Strict On

Option Explicit On

Imports System.Net.Sockets

Imports System.Text

 

#Region "Telemetry Functions"

Private Telemetry_Sender As New UdpClient

Private Telemetry_Loop_ms As Integer

Private Telemetry_Running As Boolean = False

Private Telemetry_Thread As System.Threading.Thread

 

'Starts up the Telemetry Sender.

Private Sub Start_Telemetry_Output()

'only startup if not already started.

If Telemetry_Running = False Then

'read from Telemtry cfg file.

Dim Telemetry_Enabled As String = "Get Enabled_Telemetry value from the Telemetry.cfg file"

Dim IpAddress As String = "Get IpAddress value from the Telemetry.cfg file"

Dim Port As String = "Get Port value from the Telemetry.cfg file"

Dim MS_OutputRate As String = "Get MS_OutputRate value from the Telemetry.cfg file"

 

If CBool(Telemetry_Enabled) = True Then

Try

'startup a new client.

Telemetry_Sender = New UdpClient

Telemetry_Sender.Connect(IpAddress, CInt(Port))

 

'set loop speed & start sending data.

Telemetry_Loop_ms = CInt(MS_OutputRate)

Telemetry_Running = True

Telemetry_Thread = New System.Threading.Thread(AddressOf Telemetry_Loop)

Telemetry_Thread.IsBackground = True

Telemetry_Thread.Start()

Catch ex As Exception

'Could not create the UDP sender, no need to do anything.

End Try

End If

End If

End Sub

 

'Send Telemetry

Public Sub SendTelemetry()

Try

'Collect the data.

Dim Roll As String = ""

Dim Pitch As String = ""

Dim Yaw As String = ""

Dim RollSpeed As String = ""

Dim PitchSpeed As String = ""

Dim YawSpeed As String = ""

Dim Vertical As String = ""

Dim Lateral As String = ""

Dim Longitudinal As String = ""

'add anything else you want to add, its easy now!

'Dim Rpm As String = ""

'Dim Speed As String = ""

 

'check the status to see if the game is being played (In Game, In Menus, Paused).

Dim Game_Is_Playing As Boolean = 'Get if the game is being played)

 

'game is actually being played check.

If Game_Is_Playing = True Then

'If game is actually being played (not in menus or paused).

Roll = "Get value from your game" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

Pitch = "Get value from your game" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

Yaw = "Get value from your game" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

RollSpeed = "Get value from your game" 'in (rad/sec)

PitchSpeed = "Get value from your game" 'in (rad/sec)

YawSpeed = "Get value from your game" 'in (rad/sec)

Vertical = "Get value from your game" 'in g's acceleration

Lateral = "Get value from your game" 'in g's acceleration

Longitudinal = "Get value from your game" 'in g's acceleration

Else

'If the game is paused or in the menus. (not actually being played)

Roll = "0" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

Pitch = "0" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

Yaw = "0" 'in degrees - (-180 to 180)

RollSpeed = "0" 'in (rad/sec)

PitchSpeed = "0" 'in (rad/sec)

YawSpeed = "0" 'in (rad/sec)

Vertical = "0" 'in g's acceleration

Lateral = "0" 'in g's acceleration

Longitudinal = "0" 'in g's acceleration

End If

 

'Build the output string.

Dim WhatToSend As String = "Roll:" & Roll & ":Pitch:" & Pitch & ":Yaw:" & Yaw & "RollSpeed:" & RollSpeed & ":PitchSpeed:" & PitchSpeed & ":YawSpeed:" & YawSpeed & "Vertical:" & Vertical & ":Lateral:" & Lateral & ":Longitudinal:" & Longitudinal

 

'Send the string

Dim bytCommand As Byte() = New Byte() {}

bytCommand = Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(WhatToSend)

Telemetry_Sender.Send(bytCommand, bytCommand.Length)

Catch ex As Exception

'something went wrong, turn off telemetry output.

Stop_Telemety_Output()

End Try

End Sub

 

'Stop Telemetry Output

Public Sub Stop_Telemety_Output()

'only shutdown if already started.

If Telemetry_Running = True Then

'turn output off.

Telemetry_Running = False

 

'let it finish what its doing.

System.Threading.Thread.Sleep(100)

 

'Close Client.

Telemetry_Sender.Close()

End If

End Sub

 

'Send Telemetry Loop

Private Sub Telemetry_Loop()

'Send Telemetry.

SendTelemetry()

 

'pause till next packet is needed.

System.Threading.Thread.Sleep(Telemetry_Loop_ms)

 

'loop again if needed.

If Telemetry_Running = True Then

Telemetry_Thread = New System.Threading.Thread(AddressOf Telemetry_Loop)

Telemetry_Thread.IsBackground = True

Telemetry_Thread.Start()

End If

End Sub

#End Region

 

That’s it buddy!

I hope this example is helpful.

Let me know if I can be of any help, I would love to add support for these great games!

Take Care,

yobuddy

 

Source code:

TelemetryOutputExample.zip

 

 

 

 

[curiousGamblerr]

I'm not your buddy, guy.

[Jizzo]

I'm not your buddy, guy.

But mine, you are! 

[yobuddy]

 

 

I'm not your buddy, guy.

I'm not your guy, friend.lol

[curiousGamblerr]

I'm not your guy, friend.lol

Glad you got the reference and didn't think I was just being a jerk!

 

And Jizzo, yes that's true 

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

If cheating is a concern (which frankly I think is overblown if server admins are paying attention) then it could easily be a server settings option . Tel off or on

[JaffaCake]

If cheating is a concern (which frankly I think is overblown if server admins are paying attention) then it could easily be a server settings option . Tel off or on

 

Cheating does not require telemetry data - we have seen plenty of blatantly obvious cheaters on servers and I would not be surprised if some people were being smart about using the cheats.

 

The game is unfortunately client-side to the point where the client decides if it dies or not (and not the server). With a little bit of knowledge of memory scanning and debugging one could find the data they need (esp considering that the render hangs on load are obvious protection scheme that the game uses).

 

It is a pity that the devs do not see that a straightforward telemetry feed (war-thunder does it even) is too much effort to implement . I wouldn't think it would take longer than a day or two and one could even release it as "unsupported" feature like the original VR stuff - nobody wants it perfect, having at least something would be nice.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Nobody wants it perfect? Do you even forum dude?

 

;) ;)

Edited August 2, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[yobuddy]

Whether or not telemetry data, dash board data or anything else is available via some sort of output system.

Cheaters are going to cheat and hackers are going to hack.

 

Only the people that bought the game, and want to use with their fancy equipment, are the ones let down by not having an official output system.

A cheater will just scan the memory space of the game for the data they need anyway.

 

Sure you could block Cheat Engine and Art Money from being used while your game is running.

But then the cheater would just download cheat engine source and compile it themselves under a different name.

And they are back in business.

 

I would really like to be able to promote your games on xsimulator.net and help push sales for you guys.

But all our members want support for their equipment.

And I just don't have time to scan the memory space for the telemetry info we need with every update you guys push out.

(yes, just like a cheater, we also can scan the memory space for info we need to make a plugin.)

(But why should people trying to help sell your games and keep your customers happy have to do this?)

 

Please guys, when you have time, any response would be great!

And please don't be offended by any of these comments in this thread.

If not for the fact that your games are very popular, we would not be asking for such additions to these great games!

 

(since my last post a few days ago, I have had 2 emails from people that wanted to buy your games, but chose to pass as no telemetry is available.)

I'm willing to help anyway I can guys!

yobuddy

[FlyingNutcase]

I hope it works out yobuddy. Aside from cheating issues which you seem to have pretty well addressed, it seems like a big positive.

 

And I suspect that "a few" of here would be interested in a motion set up too. :-) + VR, wow.

[yobuddy]

Thx @FlyingNutcase,

Just so everyone knows, SimTools is completely free for the DIY guys.

I won't post a link as I'm not sure it allowed here, but I'm sure you can find it if your interested.

 

Should we get enough data from the game, we could support not only Motion Simulators, but also Dashboards, and even Tactical transducers "butt-kickers" for the game.

It would be really fun to have a buttkicker simulating gunfire attached to the seat

We just like to spend our time working on the best titles!

Take care all,

yobuddy

[Flying_Colander]

Yobuddy,

 

Glad to see you cross-pollinating this forum too! We flyers over at xsim always feel a bit ignored, like the little brothers interested in origami when the big boys are taking apart motorcycle engines. I, for one, am happy for your interest. Your knowledge and enthusiasm are most welcome. You also have the stamina and experience for doing impressive things with few resources. Simtools is a labour of love for which all of us who use it are grateful (and happy to pay.)

 

I think we cannot underestimate the budgeting constraints facing Mr. Williams and IL2. They have a relatively small and demanding customer base and they hold themselves to the same high standards to which Oleg Maddox founded the IL2 Sturmovik. I also suspect their profit margins are quite tight. Flight simming is a small niche in the gaming market. WWII flight simulations are a niche within that and those of us using flight motion simulators are a very narrow niche within that nichey niche. As Mr. Williams stated, he's got just one programmer assigned for this type of work. While I am no programmer, I think I understand his apprehension about sharing the API. (Application Programming Interface - I had to look it up.) Mr. Williams has made it abundantly clear he doesn't have the resources nor can he afford the headache of opening up of IL2's intellectual property. On the other hand, if an easy fix can be found, I think IL2 should make PC pilots of as many of us as possible. I must confess I have held off buying into the BOM, BOK and all the recent goodies as I am building my rig around the revitalised Cliffs of Dover which supports motion control.

 

Yobuddy, could you comment on a compromise I suggested several months ago? Again, I am not a programmer, so please excuse my ignorance ahead of time. One of the plugins we have over at xsim is a joystick plugin. The inputs of the joystick/controller are mapped to the motion simulator movements. Up and down on the joystick produces pitch on the motion rig; left and right produces roll and rudder would produce a yaw/traction loss effect. Do I have that right? Could that be done here?

 

Thanks for any insight you could lend.

 

Cheers,

 

Flying Colander

Edited August 5, 2017 by Flying_Colander

[yobuddy]

Hi @Flying_Colander,

Thx for your kind SimTools comments!

It's my hobby and I really enjoy working on it!

 

We have a joystick plugin also.

But then we have a glorified ride-able joystick.

Which I don't really think is a replacement for telemetry motion.

 

No one expects telemetry enabled tomorrow, and I know about having a small team of programmer

So I certainly don't mean to push, I was just trying to state the case for telemetry and let Jason decide what he wants to do.

And I'm always around should anyone need any help.

 

Thanks guys,

yobuddy

Edited August 5, 2017 by yobuddy

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

I've been using that websites resources and intend to use the software as well buddy.

Been building a 2dof motion rig over the last few months. Main use will be dcs b3cause you can get the tel data and will try to use just direct js input for il2 but suspect it will be second rate

Clod has it in single player but I love me a good mp tussle and it's also not vr which is a must for me now

 

As an aside for any xsimulator lurkers

Has anyone seen a successful inclusion of vr hmd to a motion platform ? This is my next step and I suspect it's gonna be tricky in mounting the lighthouses and removing other movement noise so it is purely relative to the motion platform

 

Edit

Looks like a more elegant solution is already underway

https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/vr-motion-cancellation-time-to-test.10241/

Edited August 6, 2017 by =WFPK=chappyj