A Release Gone Wrong

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

If anyone missed it, the X:Rebirth release has gone horribly sideways.  It has been interesting to watch, even if I am among the disappointed.

[AndyJWest]

A post on the official forum: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=348927&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

 

Might be far-fetch, but maybe egosoft's publisher set a deadline and a sales limit. The game seems far from finish but its already been 7 years.

 

[tempered]

I bought into the pre-purchase based on past X series games.  Very disappointed.  I expected bugs because that is what egosoft does best at launch.  But this is different from past buggy launches. This new game is just poor design, imho.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

It is mind boggling that EGOSOFT is calling it a successful launch.  I guess they have a different metric for "success".

Edited November 17, 2013 by HeavyCavalrySgt

[Pupo]

what it's funny is no matter how disastrous a game is at release there are always those who will stand there and defend the Game and the Devs has if  their lifes depended on it.

 

Glad to see it is not an il-2 exclusive.

[DD_fruitbat]

Ahh poo. Liked x2 and was going to get this. Guess not for now then.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Ahh poo. Liked x2 and was going to get this. Guess not for now then.

 

Yeah, I have been playing in this genre since 'Elite'.  While the X games have had their problems, with patches they have been pretty amazing.  I don't know if this is fixable though.  The designers went a totally different direction, focusing on looting lockers and crates that you find in space stations and selling the contents the the guys standing next to the lockers and crates.

 

If you haven't already, you might pick up the X3 series - I think I see it is on sale this weekend.

[Bearcat]

It makes this process even more impressive.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

It makes this process even more impressive.

 

It does.  

 

EGOSOFT's defenders are saying "hey, there is a design process and once you reach a certain point it is harder to go back and fix things rather than pressing ahead with a product you know is not what is wanted".

 

It is an interesting defense that ignores the concept of trying to figure out what is wanted before investing time and money and hoping that a product will be viable or relevant later.  It also ignores developers like 777; we might not always get what we want, when we want it but at least there is the sense that the developers listen to the community.  When that community can't even agree on established scientific principles it is really pretty amazing.

[DD_Crash]

Roll on Elite : Dangerous http://elite.frontier.co.uk/

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Roll on Elite : Dangerous http://elite.frontier.co.uk/

 

I was so very close to ordering that yesterday.  I wish they had a convenient way to buy in $US.  I recognize you probably think in pounds pretty naturally, but I seem to recall that my bank charges me extra for purchases in a foreign currency.

[DD_fruitbat]

Yeah, I have been playing in this genre since 'Elite'.  While the X games have had their problems, with patches they have been pretty amazing.  I don't know if this is fixable though.  The designers went a totally different direction, focusing on looting lockers and crates that you find in space stations and selling the contents the the guys standing next to the lockers and crates.

 

If you haven't already, you might pick up the X3 series - I think I see it is on sale this weekend.

 

 

Yep, Elite was the first ever game i was hooked on.

 

I have X3, and Reunion and Terran conflict, just never seemed to have had the time to get into them.

 

Definitely going to get the new Elite though, have a look at this,

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8B4KptyVI

 

Edit, what syntax do you need to display youtube vids on this forum?

Edited November 17, 2013 by fruitbat

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I liked the video of the heavily damaged ship with it's cargo bay ripped open.  Then I found I could buy through Google Play and... well, there we are.

[Shea]

What payment option did most people purchace?

[Sim]

What is it with game developers obsession to add walkable space station interiors? First EVE, now this. Such a colossal waste of time and resources.

[Stray]

I'm a hardcore fan of X series.

 

Previous X series releases though. Rebirth is just horrid.

[DD_bongodriver]

I have missed on the issue, what exactly has gone wrong with the release? I really like the look of the game but I have no experience with any of the x series.

[DD_Crash]

They might have a "Cliffs of Dover" situation

[DD_bongodriver]

Oh no, not another, so basically this means it's a fixable problem that just needs time to sort out.

[DD_Crash]

This is a discussion on the Elite: Dangerous forum http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8553 I really need to get a life

[Bearcat]

I have such a hard time getting past flight sims.. That is about the only gaming I do. Everything else gets boring to me.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I have missed on the issue, what exactly has gone wrong with the release? I really like the look of the game but I have no experience with any of the x series.

 

Hmmmm....

 

Well, it is buggy but none of those seem earth shattering although some people couldn't play at all and other had frame rates of 10 - 20 fps and there is a good bit of stuttering.  I think those can be ironed out.

 

The really concerning part is some of the design decisions.  You might be an interstellar trader with one or more powerful ships at his disposal and a war to fight but you'll spend plenty of time crawling around in vents and wandering through berthing areas looting boxes, crates and lockers and selling the stuff you find in there, often to the people standing right next to you while you do it.  Your character must be uncommonly strong, because it is easy to carry a few hundred space suits, oodles of construction equipment, mountains of fertilizer -- there literally is no limit to what you can carry.  I am really curious how this seemed like a good idea.

 

On the space stations - which are extremely similar to the point of looting the same boxes in the same locations again and again - you interact with NPCs with extremely repetitive dialog.   You are frozen in place while your contact who you might have spent nothing with or hundreds of thousands of credits wittily ends the conversation "Nice chat.... NOT!".  After the first few dozen times it starts to wear.  I think "Show me your wares, PLEASE" would be the new "...took an arrow to the knee" if the game ever attracted enough followers to create a meme.  Actually you hear the same ten or so phrases so often that it would be hard to pick just one to create a meme with.

 

In space, you have one ship available, which is too bad -- one of the things I liked about the X series was being able to try on other ships, but okay that part at least was announced pre-release -- but there are some challenges to the way space travel works.  You follow highways around from place to place using a map that looks like the sort you would find for a bus route or a subway. It is very two dimensional.

 

The combat has potential, but that is all.  If you need to attack a big ship, you find some cozy nook or cranny like a hangar or an engine exhaust port and shoot it from the inside until it blows up, transport to cruiser it is all easy.  Combat with smaller ships is also easy unless they bring a mob.  A one on one duel will never have you needing too think tactically.  If they did bring a mob, some common features are missing like "target nearest enemy".  The HUD gives no easy indication of range and apparently the situational awareness tools have all been un-invented.  There is nothing like padlock view, or even the ability to pan your view.  You just stare straight out the front of your ship.

 

Worse, the law enforcement types generally don't like you getting in fights near their space stations.  Well that isn't true.  You can fight all you want and more, as long as you don't do any shooting yourself -- you can be the fightee, but not a fighter.  It is so silly, it needs explanation. The story line has you starting a war with the Plutarch Mining Corporation which is on the scale of a government.  Their ships will attack you on sight.  That is okay and doesn't bother the police at all.  You can wander around for hours with two or three of these ships behind you trying to whittle away your shields and the police sit back and laugh.  They even ignore shots that miss you you and hit stations or other craft. If you turn around and fight back though, the attackers snivel to the police and you get penalized for your "unprovoked" attack.  The penalty can include being attacked by the police themselves.

 

Your own ships start in enemy held sectors, so getting them out is a challenge because they are too stupid to hide, unwilling to fight and too shy to call for help. If you defend them, it is bad for your reputation.  This is actually where I am stuck at.  I lost a freighter which I think is replaceable, but have a construction ship that is heavily damaged and can't be repaired due to another bug.  The police in allied sectors will cheerfully watch enemy ships attacking your ships and do absolutely nothing.

 

Businesses in the universe have plenty of work apparently and are not actively trying to find new sources of income.  They hide on space stations, so you have to fly all over the station looking for things like ship yards and repair docks.  Bars advertise better -- they have a spray of lights going off into space but repair docks?  You need to get close to find one.

 

You can board ships, or rather send your marines too board, but it doesn't do much.  You can do anything with the ships you capture.

 

As far as their signature concepts, trade (Very broken.  You need to micromanage your trade ships and that system is incredibly buggy), fight (broken as discussed), build (might work?) and think (I think they ruined the series) there is not much going on.

[DD_bongodriver]

Hmm.....that does sound disappointing, shame as I have been tempted by this game, thanks for explaining that with detail HeavyCavalrySgt.

[I/JG27_Rollo]

Looks like it's something that I will pick up on a sale.

Until then, there's probably a good chance that the most critical issues have been dealt with.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Yeah - I wish I had waited.

 

I think the issue is that I have been spoiled by 777.  I have come to expect that developers follow through on promises, for example, but not every company is so great about that.

 

Seriously, look at the alpha release of BoS - 777 has done a great job setting expectations.  People won't be expecting combat, we are expecting to try out flight models in one airplane.  If anyone is paying any attention, they know what they are getting.  Customers are not universally happy, but they know what to expect and the ones who are unhappy are unhappy because they thought/hoped the game was further along not because the developers went it some controversial directions with the design.

 

X:Rebirth looks like it is about half way through alpha but the consumer expectation was a game that was ready for release.

[DD_bongodriver]

In fairness even 777 have explained there is a limit to where they set the bar in order to ensure meeting targets and budgets, it's not like they are performing miracles, they just have a sensible approach, some developers get a little ambitious and can't meet those targets.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

In fairness even 777 have explained there is a limit to where they set the bar in order to ensure meeting targets and budgets, it's not like they are performing miracles, they just have a sensible approach, some developers get a little ambitious and can't meet those targets.

 

Sure, that is what I meant about managing expectations.  They are open.  They show stuff that works and admit that somethings aren't ready which is fine and understandable.

 

EGOSOFT was not open.  Everything was secret and now people are looking into the code and seeing references to Xbox and wondering what happened.

 

It really looks like a console game that was dropped and halfheartedly ported to PCs.

 

I don't believe 777 would release just junk or lie to us (although I would not mind if the AI in RoF could get a little attention!)