How to effectively discourage people from flying Ground Attackers in MP Servers

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

So all people are evil and/or stupid? There must be at least one decent fellow out there. ONE? There must be at least a couple if there was only ONE objective remained. See the irony? (Yes, I know the actual definition. I am using the common, if somewhat incorrect, vernacular.)

 

Make the radio call prior to take off and that one shining knight of a soul surely would have answered. Especially if you know they are all out there galavanting about. Otherwise, it's as much your fault as theirs for taking off with that knowledge.

It's most likely Work Stoppages, due to Industrial Disrepair, than German Pilots. The Soviet Machines would welcome a Pause due to Airraids, but working 24/7 without enemy intervention something just has to give and stop working. It simply reaches a state of disrepair that's uncatachable and the Objectives just complete themselves that way. It's an approach of non-Intervention by the German Side. 

 

What I do is taking a Bomber, either a Pe-2 with 4x250 or a Ju-88 with 4x500kg, climb to 5-6k, because there's no Action that high, and then I bomb the Enemy Airfield's Spawn Area. It's the Skyknight Approach to Bombing, makes me feel Godlike. I haven't bombed an actual Objective in Months now. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Guest deleted@103832]

 

 

What I do is taking a Bomber, either a Pe-2 with 4x250 or a Ju-88 with 4x500kg, climb to 5-6k, because there's no Action that high, and then I bomb the Enemy Airfield's Spawn Area.

 

 

I would love to see five Ju 88s do that with one minute separation lol. 

 

HerrMurf in contrast to your generous Monday morning quarterback calls I see you've spent an entire 29 minutes in WoL since it began in Oct 2015. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

How does my time in a particular server negate good tactics?

[SYN_Mike77]

I love being a ground pounder on DeD expert!  If I'm with my squadron.  If I try to lone wolf it, I die.  When I go in with my mates I almost always come back alive.  We tend to take a mixed group of pounders and fighters.  If we get to the target unmolested the fighters will go in targeting the AA, then we ground pounders take over.  Great fun.

 

And DeD Expert is pretty much the exact opposite of airquake.  The aircraft limit was imho a stroke of brilliance! It really makes you fly differently.  But the penalty isn't quit and go home its fly a supply mission.  Very doable.

Edited September 12, 2016 by SYN_Mike77

[Turban]

Usually when I am up high in my HE-111 going to target and a 109 sees me they usually follow me to target.

 

Just using you as bait 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Turban

[PatrickAWlson]

My group and I fly almost exclusively IL-2's and Pe-2's, and only on DED Experimental, and this includes airfield attacks.  I won't say the casualty rate from AAA is zero, but we do well.  Saying the IL-2 is like a stationary target is total garbage.

 

 

Everyone knows that the ace AAA is to compensate for relatively low numbers of emplacements at airfields due to unit limitations.  I assume that one can't have two types of AAA A.I. running at the same time - One for airfields, one for normal targets.  So this is the best that can be done with the limitations at hand.  The day that an entire team won't pick the fastest, most cannon heavy fighters and sit on an airfield vulching it until the server empties is the day that it might change.

 

Each AI gun has an independent AI setting, so it can vary gun to gun.

 

Edit - which might be the solution.  Make the AAA around airfields Ace level and reduce the AI level on AAA around other targets.  Obviously airfield attacks would still be more challenging but at least the ground attack planes would net get slaughtered over every target.

Edited September 12, 2016 by PatrickAWlson

[Guest deleted@103832]

 

 

Just using you as bait 

 

lol Turban 

[Guest deleted@103832]

 

 

How does my time in a particular server negate good tactics?

 

One of my ex-GFs was hot but bossy. One of the reasons I cut her loose was because every time she was in the car she criticized my driving even though she only had about 29 minutes time behind the wheel herself.  WoL's open 24/7. You bring yourself and your obvious expertise in good tactics in there and we'll find out if you walk it like you talk it. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Still not sure how this became about me. Re-read your original post and review both your assumptions and your tactics. There are coachable moments there. Sorry bout that GF. With your attitude I'm sure you're a keeper.

[Guest deleted@103832]

Have fun in SP.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

OK, I'll bite. How did you come to the conclusion I only play SP?

 

My additional recommendation now is you should probably attend a class on Argumentation and Advocacy. Week two will probably introduce the Ad Hominem Fallacy as shown several times in your writings thus far. Week one will probably include the topic of arguing from a point of strength, doing proper research, and recognizing the opposing viewpoint in order to be properly prepared before engaging in argument. My original post was not a personal attack but a critique of your tactics - which were poor. You should revisit it and do some self evaluation of that engagement. It might bring you success in your further endeavors.

 

Hope that helps because you are mostly embarrassing yourself now. Though I doubt you will be able to restrain yourself, you need not reply. I am done with this thread for the time being.

[Guest deleted@103832]

Waterview Pools is installing a swimming pool in my backyard this month here in Austin. The guys were out there today, working in 90-100 degree heat, while I was kicking back on the patio in the shade, sipping my ice tea. Suddenly, one of them complained to the others about them horsing around slapfighting instead of helping him finish the rebar frame.

 

Now I have absolutely no hands-on involvement in this project, although I do know how to swim and I had been watching them for about 29 minutes. Feeling pretty spiffy, I saw an opportunity to stand on the deck above the site and show off, to broadcast my dubious authority on pool construction in the form of some unsolicited and condescending criticisms – what I like to call, “coachable moments.” Well one of them had the nerve to call me out; he said something about BS hypocrisy and told me if I knew so much about pool construction I should get in there and show them how it’s done. To build the nebulous impression I might really possess some superior expertise, I’m like, “hey bro, what makes you think I haven’t built a pool or two in my day?” The neighbors had started watching by then, so I made some comments about his attitude, told him he was embarrassing himself, etc., all the usual moves suggested in my passive-aggressive handbook to deflect attention away from my own character flaws. Finally, I told him to shut up, as it was important to put him in his place and get the last word in.

 

And you know what happened next? They pulled me down in the hole and beat the living crap out of me! Yep, totally kicked my ass. Well I learned my lesson - nobody likes a sanctimonious know-it-all.

 

HerrMurf, we might get along in person but I don’t much like the anonymous version of you. You can have the last word. I’m done. Educate everybody again in your best self-righteous tone how dumb I was to expect fighter support over that final objective - on a server you’ve flown in twice. I’m going back to playing the game now, with or without an escort. 

[sinned]

Wow, you don't have someone to watch over when you do installation of pools? 

 

I let my renovator to watch over whatever they need to do over my house and assess their work.

I don't need to go thru some coachable moments or waste my time kicking back on the patio in the shades.  I have my time better spent at work, so I just let my renovator to monitor that stuff. 

[PatrickAWlson]

lol - WTF happened to this thread?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

lol - WTF happened to this thread?

Pssst. it can only get more interesting from this point, 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

WoL's open 24/7. You bring yourself and your obvious expertise in

 

Have fun in SP.

 

As if WoL (we call it "childrens sandpit" btw) would be the only way you can play this game online   gosh

Edited September 15, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[Turban]

Waterview Pools is installing a swimming pool in my backyard this month here in Austin. The guys were out there today, working in 90-100 degree heat, while I was kicking back on the patio in the shade, sipping my ice tea. Suddenly, one of them complained to the others about them horsing around slapfighting instead of helping him finish the rebar frame.

 

Now I have absolutely no hands-on involvement in this project, although I do know how to swim and I had been watching them for about 29 minutes. Feeling pretty spiffy, I saw an opportunity to stand on the deck above the site and show off, to broadcast my dubious authority on pool construction in the form of some unsolicited and condescending criticisms – what I like to call, “coachable moments.” Well one of them had the nerve to call me out; he said something about BS hypocrisy and told me if I knew so much about pool construction I should get in there and show them how it’s done. To build the nebulous impression I might really possess some superior expertise, I’m like, “hey bro, what makes you think I haven’t built a pool or two in my day?” The neighbors had started watching by then, so I made some comments about his attitude, told him he was embarrassing himself, etc., all the usual moves suggested in my passive-aggressive handbook to deflect attention away from my own character flaws. Finally, I told him to shut up, as it was important to put him in his place and get the last word in.

 

And you know what happened next? They pulled me down in the hole and beat the living crap out of me! Yep, totally kicked my ass. Well I learned my lesson - nobody likes a sanctimonious know-it-all.

 

HerrMurf, we might get along in person but I don’t much like the anonymous version of you. You can have the last word. I’m done. Educate everybody again in your best self-righteous tone how dumb I was to expect fighter support over that final objective - on a server you’ve flown in twice. I’m going back to playing the game now, with or without an escort. 

 

Don't worry you're not alone.

 

I don't fly bombers much but try to help them or cover our objectives etc.

 

The german team is ... appaling... every single thing that could be done wrong, they do. Most are the kind of people who would rather have 50% of nothing than 25% of something.

 

Some of the worst spirited players I have ever seen tbh.

 

Anyway, if you see me around call me for escort I'll try to help

[Guest deleted@103832]

Turban, I see you in there fighting the good fight over objectives and making it out of there 9 times out of 10 because of your skill. Pretty awesome, my friend. 

 

 

 

As if WoL (we call it "childrens sandpit" btw) would be the only way you can play this game online   gosh

 

 

Point taken, and I agree. I prefer TAW and would spend more time in that server but for two reasons: It's down a lot, and it's underpopulated a lot. Target AAA is so intense it is near-suicide to try unless you're in  a group. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

Point taken, and I agree. I prefer TAW and would spend more time in that server but for two reasons: It's down a lot, and it's underpopulated a lot. Target AAA is so intense it is near-suicide to try unless you're in  a group. 

I'd join events ( in fact i do) when i want to fly ground attacker or bomber. Something like the FNBF, In War etc. There you fly organized in groups, getting proper escort from fighters, and can use all aircraft in a historical correct context. It's awesome, i probably had the most fun ever in a group of 111s in a FNBF mission, level bombing from 5k.

Wings of Liberty is really only useful for dogfight practice and trying out some stuff.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I'd join events ( in fact i do) when i want to fly ground attacker or bomber. Something like the FNBF, In War etc. There you fly organized in groups, getting proper escort from fighters, and can use all aircraft in a historical correct context. It's awesome, i probably had the most fun ever in a group of 111s in a FNBF mission, level bombing from 5k.

Wings of Liberty is really only useful for dogfight practice and trying out some stuff.

WoL is great for Level Bomb Training. Nobody is around at 5k and the enemy Spawn area and Runways are perfect target Practice.

[Monostripezebra]

WoL is great for Level Bomb Training. Nobody is around at 5k and the enemy Spawn area and Runways are perfect target Practice.

 

But it really is more fun if you have no GPS to manage the aproaches and if you have long distances to fly. Checking and doublechecking with the map while the airfield is hidden below a cloud, but you know it must be there.. and then suddently positionlights shimmer through that cloud....and you know you have struck gold, and they are not all gone yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IumhmB6F3U0

 

and on a server where that actually matters because it helps the team. What´s not to like about it?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Monostripezebra

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

You got to be kidding! Those position light show as beacons in the night from above and when the bomb gets close they but disappear :D

Hilarious, to say the least.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

But it really is more fun if you have no GPS to manage the aproaches and if you have long distances to fly. Checking and doublechecking with the map while the airfield is hidden below a cloud, but you know it must be there.. and then suddently positionlights shimmer through that cloud....and you know you have struck gold, and they are not all gone yet.

 

and on a server where that actually matters because it helps the team. What´s not to like about it?

Man, they really got salty you "scum". 

[hames123]

I like flying a Stuka on the Normal 1C game, wish there were more targets aside from airfields to hit, like AT gun positions or Artilery.

[beepee]

 

 

If you really want to effectively discourage people-flying ground attack aircraft, you'd be best off creating your own server that offers fighters only. That way you and your friends can have as many willy jousts as you like.

 

+100

 

[Feathered_IV]

Goodness me. Did I write that? Better make it Fw-190's only.

[Y-29.Silky]

 

Can't really have it both ways... 

 

Setup a lot of AAA at the airfields and not as much as the ground targets: Boom, we'd have it both ways. 

 

Even a little tank convoy seems to have enough AAA to defend a whole city.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Y-29.Silky

[[TWB]Pand]

TAW next week!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

One thing I used for Rise of Flight in missions I made was to make "low" accuracy AA but have it fire at 10 times the normal rate, so that way you have one AA gun simulating ten of them. It makes for some impressive fireworks

Not sure how I missed this quote but that does sound cool...........and maybe even immersive. Gotta have eye candy in these things.

Edited January 1, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Why discourage ground attackers..

Few servers i have played on seem to be lacking enough bombers and attackers but have too many fighters trying to play Team death match like in War Thunder .

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I don't think anyone WANTS to discourage ground attack. In fact my squad does a bit of Jabo work now in various servers. We have always offered cover and try to help anyone down low who appears in trouble regardless of mission. I think the point I was replying to was in making the AAA at airfields more realistic both in effectiveness (less sniper-y) and appearance.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Random Expert Right now is seriously flawed with the extremely short distances between the Airfield and Front, making Camping a viable option, since running back to your Airfield barely takes more than 5 Mintes, an Experience I had to make Yesterday cahsing a 190. I put it in my Sig for a Reason. Airfield need to be a Good Distance away fromt he Front, a Dedicated Bomber Airfield as far away as Possible. 

 

I have been killed trying to Take-Off in a Bomber and being killed by someone just outside the Rade Perimeter often enough at this point to stop flying Bombers altogether at this Point. 

 

The Random Expert System has been worsened to the Point of unplayability for serious Bomber Pilots. 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Random Expert Right now is seriously flawed with the extremely short distances between the Airfield and Front, making Camping a viable option, since running back to your Airfield barely takes more than 5 Mintes, an Experience I had to make Yesterday cahsing a 190. I put it in my Sig for a Reason. Airfield need to be a Good Distance away fromt he Front, a Dedicated Bomber Airfield as far away as Possible. 

 

I have been killed trying to Take-Off in a Bomber and being killed by someone just outside the Rade Perimeter often enough at this point to stop flying Bombers altogether at this Point. 

 

The Random Expert System has been worsened to the Point of unplayability for serious Bomber Pilots. 

 

 

Post it in the DED Expert thread, it might get results.  Part of it could be because the VVS are pushed right up against Moscow and the edge of the map.

[Lusekofte]

Flew 3 missions with a mate on Random server, did not make a return on either. Got shot down on final with my PE 2. I rather fly in WOL server where the losses do not punish you that much. Because flying bombers are impossible as for now there

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

the servers make little to no sense to me..

I thought 1c and 777 would have had major servers they run in each major continent.
I honestly did not know it was a dedicated server system until i installed the game.

why does not 1c and 777 run like 5 Persistent Servers World wide (highly Stable never crash or bugged out and Properly PErsistent map and battles.

[vincini]

Its tough because one change will make a percentage of players happy, and the other angry. I believe the solution, as of right now, is highly skilled AA. What we need for ground pounders is a system in game that allows flight creation on a server. Meaning, a player can create a bomber flight, designate a target, and then other players can join it and all spawn together and have their in game messages be sent to just the flight. Really, anything that allows better communication in-game between players makes the experience more enjoyable and organized.

 

I just thought about it too, we are getting that air marshall system soon, possibly the air marshall can create ground attack missions and create a flight that players can join?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

There are multiple channels in TS. You don't really need separate text channels.

 

I fly both fighter and Jabo. A better light show with similar efficiency sounds pretty good to me. I'd like to see heavier guns put up additional burst for effect as well. One live shell and three or four "puffs" representing more guns. Not purely atmospheric puffs with no danger but, again, a better show. Fill the sky with AAA, keep it dangerous, and make it pretty at the same time. DX11 should allow more eye candy overall.

 

As an aside/ when did the Germans begin deploying quad 20's? Always found that to be an interesting looking setup - both on the ground and on vehicles.

 

Edit: Flakvierling 38 seems to be 1940

Edited January 4, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, as of now the TAW Server has shown that it is also quite effective to use 37mm Flak at Normal and High Settings to really destroy the "Moral Fiber" of the Side they wanted to loose. 

 

When people talk about Laser Guided Flak, well, they are definetly Superhuman even at Low Settings, and Laser Guidance is probably the only Explanation able to explain the astonishing effectiveness at Normal and High Settings. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

we have a new winner in the thread necro awards
:D well done Klause-Mann

Pitty its such a silly Terrible topic.
How to prevent the planes that won the war from playing online.

Bombers win wars.
Fighters make movies

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Well, as of now the TAW Server has shown that it is also quite effective to use 37mm Flak at Normal and High Settings to really destroy the "Moral Fiber" of the Side they wanted to loose. 

 

When people talk about Laser Guided Flak, well, they are definetly Superhuman even at Low Settings, and Laser Guidance is probably the only Explanation able to explain the astonishing effectiveness at Normal and High Settings.

AAA since ROF need attention from Devs. I can't imagine how devastating effect it would have agaist Flying Circus aeroplanes.

 

AAA can track you through objects, and in ROF (i don't remember if the same is in BOS) you can be shot down by high caliber AAA at really low altitude from far away. And all this is imposible in RL. I hope there will be resources found to look at AAA someday.

Edited December 17, 2017 by 307_Tomcat