Why is there no quick saves or checkpoints in flight simulators?

[Marcomies]

I don't think any proper flight simulator and very few of flight games in general have mid-mission saves or checkpoints, neither have I seen much discussion about it on any forums. It's pretty odd since these are exactly the games where you can fly from point A to point B for an hour just to be killed in a second when the fighting starts.

 

The fist reaction of a simmer to checkpoints is probably something like "that's casual and unrealistic" but flights sims usually have difficulty options from hardcore simulator to a invulnerable perpetual motion machine with beefed-up weapons and infinite ammo, but there is never saving or checkpoints in those options.

 

Personally I always use full realism, I don't like using autopilot, time acceleration or skipping the take-off, flight and landing to get to the action fast. I enjoy managing the plane, flying formation, reading the map and scanning the skies for enemies. What I miss is the chance to try that actual battle again without spending another hour flying there or feeling like I cheated my way there.

 

Opinions? Why do you think it is as it is?

[AndyJWest]

Why do you think it is as it is?

 

Because it is far too complex to do any other way, I suspect.

 

To work properly, a mid-flight save would have to include everything down to the last in-flight bullet for every aircraft flying. The work involved would be horrendous, and you'd end up with huge save files.

[Blooddawn1942]

To be honest, and thats not meant in an arrogant manner: None needs this. For what purpose? Thats the thrill of the unpredictable. Thats the thing! Starting up your hellish chariot of flying thunder, manage all the systems and navigate it into eye of the storm....wait....that would be the case with WarThunder...

For me personal and for many other simmer its not just about the combat alone.

The combat is just a part of the mission, the rest is about system monitoring/management, navigation and getting immersed in the sim.

For the sake of combat and practise... well...theres in most cases quickmissionbuilders for instant action etc...

FSX has this feature You requested....in this special case, I mean flying from Frankfurth to Sidney in real time...there it makes some sense, hehe

[Marcomies]

To be honest, and thats not meant in an arrogant manner: None needs this. For what purpose? Thats the thrill of the unpredictable. Thats the thing! Starting up your hellish chariot of flying thunder, manage all the systems and navigate it into eye of the storm....wait....that would be the case with WarThunder...

For me personal and for many other simmer its not just about the combat alone.

The combat is just a part of the mission, the rest is about system monitoring/management, navigation and getting immersed in the sim.

For the sake of combat and practise... well...theres in most cases quickmissionbuilders for instant action etc...

FSX has this feature You requested....in this special case, I mean flying from Frankfurth to Sidney in real time...there it makes some sense, hehe

 

As I said, I enjoy doing the entire flight with all management and navigation involved but I'd prefer not doing the same trip half a dozen times if I keep failing at the combat (which is only a part of the experience as you said). I'm not sure you red the entire op...

[ThudThunder]

Realism. But hey, that's just me.

[Marcomies]

Because it is far too complex to do any other way, I suspect.

 

To work properly, a mid-flight save would have to include everything down to the last in-flight bullet for every aircraft flying. The work involved would be horrendous, and you'd end up with huge save files.

 

It could be that but I'm not sure save files would be that huge. I'd imagine that if you pause the game, look at the size of the game process minus all graphics and actual engine you'd en up with all the data you need for a save. And it's just a snapshot, flight sims have been saving the flight tracks with all the data you mentioned at least since the MS combat flight simulators I think.

[Rjel]

I could see the value in this. Suppose you have a unique scenario present itself. Maybe something simple like trying different tactics in evading an enemy attack. Getting the exact same set up randomly in a game is next to impossible. It might be difficult or impossible to create in newer sims, but in an older sim (maybe AOP) you were allowed to re-enter a recorded mission. It was a great way to try out different moves.

[Blooddawn1942]

As I said, I enjoy doing the entire flight with all management and navigation involved but I'd prefer not doing the same trip half a dozen times if I keep failing at the combat (which is only a part of the experience as you said). I'm not sure you red the entire op...

 

I perfectly understood Your point. But maybe You got the wrong approach. Combat is not about shooting down 3 aircraft in every sortie. Its about figure out the situation I encounter. Weighting up my chances. How many wingman has my flight? How many enemys approaching? Are they above or below? Did they recognized us, or die they even managed to caught us up by surprise. Then I decide if I engage or defend myself or even try to get away if all the odds are against us. Thats what You would do in a real combat situation.

First priority is getting home alive. Second to fulfill the mission goal. Shooting down an opponent may come along fulfilling  these two points. It is not the first objective.

[Marcomies]

I perfectly understood Your point. But maybe You got the wrong approach. Combat is not about shooting down 3 aircraft in every sortie. Its about figure out the situation I encounter. Weighting up my chances. How many wingman has my flight? How many enemys approaching? Are they above or below? Did they recognized us, or die they even managed to caught us up by surprise. Then I decide if I engage or defend myself or even try to get away if all the odds are against us. Thats what You would do in a real combat situation.

First priority is getting home alive. Second to fulfill the mission goal. Shooting down an opponent may come along fulfilling  these two points. It is not the first objective.

 

Ok. I'm not hoping for saves or checkpoints for getting lots of kills on every single mission, I'd like saves because I get shot down in fights and I'd prefer not to end my career entirely or try that same mission again and again for dozen times with 30 minutes of flying to the target, refly isn't any more realistic than checkpoint. I have been flying several il2 1946 careers as a warm up for BoS and I have been completely happy with just surviving some of the missions with zero kills. What I have not been enjoying however, is repeating the same mission over and over again because the 1946 requires you "complete" every career mission rather than survive, especially if you are fighting on the wrong side of the front.

[Blooddawn1942]

That can be annoying, You´re right. But in IL-2 1946, there is a check-box in the realism options that allows You, that the mission must not be a success to move on with Your career. Then its alright, fly, survive and thats it.

I hate campaigns where You need to fulfill a special task in order to proceed to the next mission. I remember Flying this stupid Hat in the Ring campaign in Rise of Flight, were this situation happens. Kill this Brequett and this Spad blabla, otherwise You wont proceed to the next mission. Total bollocks! With the beta career in RoF  things are alot better!

Theres nothing better then a dynamical campaign were You will proceed to the next sortie, whatever the outcome is. Well, as long as You survive.

In This regard Over Flanders Fields is damn good. You also need to write a kill notification to get that kill count. Absolutely immersive!!

Edited November 16, 2013 by Blooddawn1942

[Marcomies]

That can be annoying, You´re right. But in IL-2 1946, there is a check-box in the realism options that allows You, that the mission must not be a success to move on with Your career. 

Damn, I always though "instant success" meant that the mission would end mid-flight when the mission had been accomplished... Thanks for the info.

[Blooddawn1942]

Hehe...Nope. It just means, that Your mission is a success, even if You leave it, just after taking right off from the runway.

In terms of realism this option is a must! At least in my opinion.

Glad to help You comrade.

[Feathered_IV]

Being able to save in mid-mission is something I've always wanted to be able to do. I'd love to be able to fly a four or six hour mission without pounding some time skip button to get me there and back. There's no way way I could spend that long in one sitting without making unreasonable sacrifices to my work and home life though. As a consequence, I can only skim the surface of what a flight sim can really do. Being able to save within a mission would let me get much, much more out of the game.

 

We've all had those amazing one in a million moments in a flight sim that we wish we could share. If you could save the game you could send your save point and the mission file to your mate and say, there you go - work your way out of that...

[Sokol1]

Just because flight sim is not scripted like FPS games...

 

Sokol1

[Tone71]

Because it is far too complex to do any other way, I suspect.

 

To work properly, a mid-flight save would have to include everything down to the last in-flight bullet for every aircraft flying. The work involved would be horrendous, and you'd end up with huge save files.

 

I believe you're able to "take control" of replays in DCS. Admittedly you would need to fast forward to the point that you would like to continue your replay from, and I don't think it's possible to have these count toward an ongoing campaign, but this shows that it is doable.

[AndyJWest]

I believe you're able to "take control" of replays in DCS. Admittedly you would need to fast forward to the point that you would like to continue your replay from, and I don't think it's possible to have these count toward an ongoing campaign, but this shows that it is doable.

 

This works up to a point - but DCS replays seem to be rather buggy, and don't always accurately reproduce what originally happened.

[Tone71]

This works up to a point - but DCS replays seem to be rather buggy, and don't always accurately reproduce what originally happened.

That is very true

[Bearcat]

Because it is far too complex to do any other way, I suspect.

 

To work properly, a mid-flight save would have to include everything down to the last in-flight bullet for every aircraft flying. The work involved would be horrendous, and you'd end up with huge save files.

 

 

Just because flight sim is not scripted like FPS games...

 

Sokol1

 

 

I agree with the above.. Try a QM .. and in one scenario climb to the left... then to the right.. then dive to the left and the right.. all before the merge.. each time you do that they AI both friendly and enemy will react differently and in some cases it can change the mission all together.. There are so many variables involved in a FS .. I just can't see it being done reliably.