Possible solution for VVS disadvantage?

[BraveSirRobin]

The only thing that would need "fixing" is player attitudes and that damned "e-sports" menthality. This thread proves it. Too bad nobody could bugfix that.

Yeah, damned people acting like human beings ruin everything.

Edited January 11, 2016 by BraveSirRobin

[Gump]

As someone who is predominantly single player offline I have to take issue with your suggestion that the entire plane set should be reduced to only those that are 'competitive' in the online multiplayer arena.

 

For some of us the best part of the sim is investigating and flying these planes and getting an appreciation of them. For us a decent offline campaign is the most important thing that needs to be added.

 

As csThor says, the predominant problem in online play is the wildly ahistorical behaviours (despite the best efforts of the various mission designers) and the absence in most cases of any over-riding historical motivation. And in real life a pilot was posted to a squadron and had no choice in deciding which aircraft they flew. No way to simulate or enforce that in the online arena.

 

Maybe the situation online can be improved BUT I don't want it done at the expense of the enjoyment of the silent majority who rarely find themselves on a server. Online is an important part of this sim, but it's NOT everything, and in my opinion already gets too much of the attention of the devs.

 

... to make my position clear, im NOT suggesting that these 'lesser planes' be discarded from the game. my statement about them being of no relative value was with regard to online MP competitive considerations, as this whole thread is highlighting. offline SP/campaign/etc play is very different than online MP play. SP mode employs AI aircraft, which are, at present, completely absent from online MP. SP sees defined strategies and tactics being employed. MP sees a plethora of players participating for a plethora of reasons and goals.

.... these 'lesser planes' are barely used in MP and, when they are, the majority of that play seems due to other than competitive reasons. the value of these planes in MP is close to zero. in business, you look for return on investment, and the game is business to the developers. So, in MP, there is relatively no value, low ROI, for these planes. SP may be different, but im not addressing that. my argument was questioning the objection to adding a plane that is competitive like the LA5FN just because it wasn't "historically correct", disregarding online MP competition.

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server setups, missions, campaigns, etc have OPTIONS to be set up with. everything the game is capable of is not required to be employed at all times. there is no reason the game should be limited to options that must fit every scenario at all times.

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the game has various customers. some are more interested, like you, in the history. some are more interested in the "sport". both are paying customers and both can enjoy the game, if not in somewhat different ways. actually, the interests may tend to switch and swap in time. but, expanding the game's capabilities/options to accommodate satisfaction for a wide audience means that the boundaries have to be examined and evaluated, and maybe expanded sometimes.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

The solution is to pose a team number cap that was representative of actual wartime differences. 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

What disadvantage VVS always tends to win as Luft is at 200k while I sneak in low level with my pe2 and destroy the 6th army singlehandedly (no sorry it is a team effort)

 

Xx

Edited January 11, 2016 by [TBC]AeroACE

[Recon]

you want a solution :  find friends, fly close with them, win using teamwork.

 

Meanwhile, it's early Russian setup, it is what it is.

[Feathered_IV]

What disadvantage VVS always tends to win as Luft is at 200k while I sneak in low level with my pe2 and destroy the 6th army singlehandedly (no sorry it is a team effort)

 

Xx

 

I must admit, I did just that last night on DED.  Planned my route and took a Pe-2 at treetop height over the lines.  Hit my second nav point and popped up for a look, located the target and passed it to the north while climbing to 1500m.  Turned so I was facing home and then sped in to put a pair of 500kg jobbies in among the sausages.  Collected my credit for 52 destroyed buildings and vehicles then contour chased home.  The Luftwaffe meanwhile drew some pretty contrails. 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I must admit, I did just that last night on DED.  Planned my route and took a Pe-2 at treetop height over the lines.  Hit my second nav point and popped up for a look, located the target and passed it to the north while climbing to 1500m.  Turned so I was facing home and then sped in to put a pair of 500kg jobbies in among the sausages.  Collected my credit for 52 destroyed buildings and vehicles then contour chased home.  The Luftwaffe meanwhile drew some pretty contrails. 

this

I was really hoping the 110 would be the pe2 match but so far I find it inferior

[csThor]

Yeah, damned people acting like human beings ruin everything.

 

Please have your sarcasm detector checked by a tech.

 

Seriously: People clamoring for the latest and best über-plane (and - as in this case - even aircraft that weren't even in service) reveal a mindset of

 

a) a deplorable fixation on dueling ("e-sports mentality")

b) an even more deplorable lack of appreciation for the environment and circumstances (aka "history")

c) a lack of team spirit

d) a lack of patience and a focus on instant gratification

 

IMO a lot of the issues that bug online could be, well not really circumvented but eased to a certain degree by gameplay/mission design. But even those efforts would require a player base that consciously scales back the extremes of the "me first and then only me" attitude in favor of a bit more team effort.

Edited January 11, 2016 by csThor

[JtD]

... But even those efforts would require a player base that consciously scales back the extremes of the "me first and then only me" attitude in favor of a bit more team effort.

That's not mutually exclusive, actually. Folks just need to understand that teamwork is for the benefit of everyone, including oneself. You may not benefit in exactly next second, but you will in the next half an hour.

 

But then, some folks just play for fun, and there's nothing really wrong with that.

[SR-F_Winger]

The Luftwaffe meanwhile drew some pretty contrails.

problem is tight now the VVS draws the contrails AND dominates down low since our dear devs made it so the VVS have the best low level fighters and with the MIG3 the best high altitude performer that at the same time performs too well at lower alts. I really dont know what you VVS simpilots have to complain about right now.

Look at the playercounts. Most of the time VVS has more players than german side. For a reason (at least when i play - at all in the last time - its peak CET playtimes).

Edited January 11, 2016 by StG2_Winger

[JtD]

Historical accuracy, maybe.

Edited January 11, 2016 by JtD

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

problem is tight now the VVS draws the contrails AND dominates down low since our dear devs made it so the VVS have the best low level fighters and with the MIG3 the best high altitude performer that at the same time performs too well at lower alts. I really dont know what you VVS simpilots have to complain about right now.

Look at the playercounts. Most of the time VVS has more players than german side. For a reason (at least when i play - at all in the last time - its peak CET playtimes).

While I agree on numbers of VVS pilot ( I'm referring to the DED Expert here as you probably do, too) I find your statement regarding VVS domination exegerated.

 

Yesterday I had a fun clash against 4 Migs in a sole Bf109 E with full fuel, just took of when our airfield got attacked. They were well coordinated and split up, one dragging me away and 2 trying to get on my six. It was a fun fight for sure as I managed to shoot 1 Mig down and deal critical damage on 2 other before going down. I can not by any means say I felt the Emil inferiour during that fight.

 

As for YaK....well we know where this ends

 

On topic, no, the VVS is not disadvantaged at all. Saying a plane with good low altitude performence is better than one with better high alt preformence is like saying a wrench is a better tool than a screwdriver only because it may suit your needs and technics better. Fact is though it depends on the pilot to use his tool right to make it function properly, which (as Thor concluded) is rarely the case ingame.

[Broadsword]

I must admit, I did just that last night on DED.  Planned my route and took a Pe-2 at treetop height over the lines.  Hit my second nav point and popped up for a look, located the target and passed it to the north while climbing to 1500m.  Turned so I was facing home and then sped in to put a pair of 500kg jobbies in among the sausages.  Collected my credit for 52 destroyed buildings and vehicles then contour chased home.  The Luftwaffe meanwhile drew some pretty contrails. 

This is how my group and I routinely fly in the IL2 and Pe2. It's pretty successful, even with airfield attacks.

 

Use the terrain and ground clutter to maximum affect and you can do well. Plus it looks good to see 4 or 5 aircraft in close formation going between rows of trees, along ravines etc.

[Dakpilot]

"Any German pilot caught spreading dissension in the ranks and promoting a defeatist attitude will be punished by being transferred to Lentolaivue 24 (Fighter Squadron 24) Finnish front

 

you will spend the rest of the war flying Brewster Buffalo B-239 against the Red Army 

 

Adolf Galland

 

General der Jagdflieger" 

 

(humour) 

 

Interestingly there were 36 Finnish Buffalo aces with the top scorer, Capt. Hans H. Wind with 39 Buffalo air victories, the last Buffalo air combat victory being in October 44

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[ShamrockOneFive]

"Any German pilot caught spreading dissension in the ranks and promoting a defeatist attitude will be punished by being transferred to Lentolaivue 24 (Fighter Squadron 24) Finnish front

 

you will spend the rest of the war flying Brewster Buffalo B-239 against the Red Army 

 

Adolf Galland

 

General der Jagdflieger" 

 

(humour) 

 

Interestingly there were 36 Finnish Buffalo aces with the top scorer, Capt. Hans H. Wind with 39 Buffalo air victories, the last Buffalo air combat victory being in October 44

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

A great example of the Finnish Air Force using what is largely considered to be a completely "inferior" fighter and using tactics to defeat the VVS flyers with their increasing technological superiority. This can really go both ways. The Finnish had a great communication network of spotters paired with some very experienced pilots and using their pendulum (or boom and zoom) style tactics to win. Their record is impressive!