Developer Diary, Part 118 - Discussion

[Danziger]

Up in the top right corner it says work in progress so I'm sure it isn't the final version.

[Chief_Mouser]

Lovely stuff. BoS had left me cold (haha) with the just the winter map; I pretty much left it alone until the summer and autumn versions came out. So BoM hadn't really any appeal either while I wasn't using BoS. However, a beautiful map makes all the difference! I'm still learning the BoS aircraft so apart from the I-16 BoM didn't really tempt me, but now it has.    I shall be shelling out a few quid fairly soon just so I can fly over the new map; like RoF sometimes all I want to do is go for a sightseeing tour - looking forward to it.

 

Cheers.

[3instein]

Good update as usual team. Will be interesting hearing about your plans for 2016 and beyond.

 

All the best for the New Year.

 

Mick.

[BlackSix]

I'm also a little baffled by the inability to fly over Moscow.  If it's there, why can't we go to it?  Yes I do understand my question is rhetorical as I already understand that there are limitations in place that would prevent us from doing just that.  But if I read between the lines (which we all do from time to time) does that mean there exists a possibility that sometime in the future this might be possible? 

Or is this an inherent limitation of "maps"?  IE:  limited to a set of X squares by Y squares and then populated as the mappers abilities and historical data shows?  Don't suppose the ability to move from "map" to "map" might be a workaround?  Just throwing my uneducated thoughts around.... but developer comments about adding new towns in the future makes me excited about what that *might* look like.  S!

We can't make such a big city in a timely manner. Also, Luftwaffe bombed Moscow rarely fall and winter of 1941. The main air battles took place west of the city.

[Uufflakke]

I have never been in Moscow but I agree the colours really looks strange. I know it's no good footage but it definetly looks different in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IneYDkJSCxA

 

It's not so much the saturation of the colours, it's their hue. Everything seem to blend in as one big brown mass which looks a bit unnatural. Some yellow cornfields and green instead of brown trees certainly would add some more variety to the overall landscape.

 

The Yak video is unfortunately too blury due to closed in zoom level. Also the glass of the cockpit adds a slight tint to the outside colours as well making them look more dull.I know from flights here over Germany that colours even in autum are more diverse.

 

I think your video is from early autumn (it is posted on YT on the 30th of October so the drone flight was before) while the Yak-52 flight was at the end of autumn according Han.

 

In this set of photos there is a brownish autumn in the Moscow region, with a few dry yellowish green parts. The balloon flight was in November.

 

http://toddprincephotography.com/russia-photographs/moscow-region-hot-air-balloon-ride/

 

Weather conditions are more extreme in Moscow than in Germany so that might explain the difference in colours from green to brown in early/late autumn.

 

On the other hand I notice that on screenshots trees still have all their leaves while in the above link I see barren deciduous trees in November.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Uufflakke

[SYN_Vorlander]

The Dev team said from the beginning that Moscow will not be in the final version. Period 

[Dakpilot]

As far as i remember there were only three days of bomber raids on Moscow City, all at night and very early in the campaign

 

Creating a huge city just for a few 'sightseeing' flights does seem a waste of resources, rather have the current design map in a timely manner 

 

Looking forward to release

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Mags]

Good Golly, Miss Molly!

Great news!

[StG77_Kondor]

Great shots. Glad to see another fantastic Junkers product being completed. 

[Lusekofte]

I really do not want to come off as ungrateful, because I am not. This game have gone further than my expectations already. So this is just a question so please do not put more to it than that.

I really am interested in why we cannot get options in more axis controls, like trim.

Will we have the option on bombsight to put all the mouse clickable controls in it to buttons like all other controls. 

Most people being in sim community have a Trim wheel and it is a shame it only can be used in German fighters, historical or not. You got the interface and since the vertical stabilator work with the trim wheel, why not Trim. I also like to have bombers, undercarriage, Airbrakes and a lot more on axis control as a option.

 

Are these things possible? If they are is it a Budget question? or is it policy issues ?

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Because some planes have wheels and some have buttons hence u can only use wheels or buttons to use them. At least I think that's the reasoning

[StG77_Kondor]

Because some planes have wheels and some have buttons hence u can only use wheels or buttons to use them. At least I think that's the reasoning

 

Correct. 

 

For the 190, (which is the only axis plane this affects) I have it set to my second hat switch. It seriously couldn't be easier. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by StG77_Kondor

[Jade_Monkey]

Correct. 

 

For the 190, (which is the only axis plane this affects) I have it set to my second hat switch. It seriously couldn't be easier. 

That's right. Also, for those who dont have too many spare buttons on the joystick, you can assign all the different keystokes for different planes to the same joystick key.

[xvii-Dietrich]

It is really great to see the progress on the Ju 88 A-4. Excellent stuff!

 

I'd also echo Lusekoft's questions regarding controls.It would be good to see the ability to have some more of the bomber controls mappable to axes.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I think your video is from early autumn (it is posted on YT on the 30th of October so the drone flight was before) while the Yak-52 flight was at the end of autumn according Han.

 

In this set of photos there is a brownish autumn in the Moscow region, with a few dry yellowish green parts. The balloon flight was in November.

 

http://toddprincephotography.com/russia-photographs/moscow-region-hot-air-balloon-ride/

 

Weather conditions are more extreme in Moscow than in Germany so that might explain the difference in colours from green to brown in early/late autumn.

 

On the other hand I notice that on screenshots trees still have all their leaves while in the above link I see barren deciduous trees in November.

Thanks, yea it looks different on this picture but it's still more diverse colour wise than the screens shown ingame.

 

Not want to nipick too much about it, but I really think colour diversity is what's lacking most on current non-winter time maps. It makes the whole scenery look more "comic" like and less photorealistic (which I assume is the goal).

 

Either way I'm glad for all the work that is being put into this amd other maps.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Also, some AC have adjustable trim, some have adjustable on some surfaces but not others and some have fixed tabs (ground adjustable). You may see sliders at some point but it is not a priority ATM. Trims are on switched for now but anything that was adjustable IRL is adjustable in game AFAIK.

 

It is easy nonetheless. Even the Bf109 with that godawful hand wheel works fine once you get used to it.

Edited December 30, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Lusekofte]

Because some planes have wheels and some have buttons hence u can only use wheels or buttons to use them. At least I think that's the reasoning

Using historical excuse is worn and make no sence. Not even DCS take historical reasons when making their interface for axis. But why is not the *Airbrake on axis and Bombbay? they had to swivel the bombay and JU 87 hade a handle looking like the throttle to pull, not a button. It should be made for the common simmers hardware

[Trooper117]

To be honest, the user should have the option to set the controls anyway they want... we aren't sitting in a real cockpit, we aren't feeling real G forces, we don't bail out of an aircraft for real...

 

It makes no sense to only have certain controls set in the way they are because 'thats how they were in the real plane'... We are not in a real plane, it's a game!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

OK, then it is feature creep, unnecessary and takes away from design/programming which is better applied elsewhere. The game is continuously improving. You may get it at some point, probably not soon, or you may not.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Here's what I mean. Above the original shot, below the quickly modified one.

[Voidhunger]

Here's what I mean. Above the original shot, below the quickly modified one.

 

 

hmm much better!

 

Absolutelly agree that we need more types of trees and more colours than brown. anyway thanks for the news!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Looks a bit too green to me. I'm on holiday but once I'm back I can show a couple of photos taken on late autumn yo show what I mean

[Trooper117]

OK, then it is feature creep, unnecessary and takes away from design/programming which is better applied elsewhere. The game is continuously improving. You may get it at some point, probably not soon, or you may not.

 

Get what exactly?

[Uufflakke]

Thanks, yea it looks different on this picture but it's still more diverse colour wise than the screens shown ingame.

 

 

Not want to nipick too much about it, but I really think colour diversity is what's lacking most on current non-winter time maps. It makes the whole scenery look more "comic" like and less photorealistic (which I assume is the goal).

 

Either way I'm glad for all the work that is being put into this amd other maps.

 

You might be right, you might be wrong. I might be right, I might be wrong.

On Russian forum same discussion by the way.

Most of us here are not from Russia let alone we live in Moscow. So we have to base our opinion on images.

The Dev team is located in Moscow so they only have to look out of the window to see the real colours.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Uufflakke

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Get what exactly?

Controls on sliders.

[Bando]

@ Uufflakke;

 

My thoughts exactly. 

The devs live there. If anyone in this community knows how Moscow would look like, it's the devs.......

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

To each his own. It's still a game and while they do put a lot of effort into maps, they don't really look photorealistic (at least too me).

 

And just living there does not automaticly make you know how such a huge area looks from 3000 ft and higher, not to mention 70 years ago It's not like anybody said it's totally off.

Comparing real world to what is displayed within a game engine is always critical. That's why art is and will always be involved in game development.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[No601_Swallow]

 

And just living there does not automaticly make you know how such a huge area looks from 3000 ft and higher, not to mention 70 years ago

 

Well, yes and no. I have to say, coming from London, I felt a lot of "ownership" of the English part of the CloD channel map. I have only ever flown over it once in a light aircraft, but I've looked out on it many times from an airline window, and I knew the CloD version was rather a travesty (especially "London" itself).

 

I'm happy to assume the Devs feel a similar drive to get "their" countryside right - and I'm hopefully they'll do everything they can to do it justice.

Edited December 30, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[skline00]

Keep up the good work. 2016 is looking like a great year for this sim.

[TP_Jacko]

To each his own. It's still a game and while they do put a lot of effort into maps, they don't really look photorealistic

.

 

What on earth is photorealistic in a computer simulation, how can you expect the devs even to reach that standard. The maps are actually the best out there at this time and with trees modelled individually. In the old IL2 it took ages for maps to be created that were no way as good as these.

[pilotpierre]

Great update, thanks.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Don't be mad on me for not knowing a better, more clear term. Nobody expects DCS Nevada level of detail.

 

I slowly regret positng this because this comunity simply can't treat humble critic well.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

.

 

What on earth is photorealistic in a computer simulation, how can you expect the devs even to reach that standard. The maps are actually the best out there at this time and with trees modelled individually. In the old IL2 it took ages for maps to be created that were no way as good as these.

 

For all the positive fuss over "individually modeled trees" I still don't see many players making a point of utilizing that handy feature.

 

Now if non-"individually modeled trees" meant less CPU/GPU cycles that could correlate to more AI in the sky/on the ground/further rendering distances it would seem that shelving "individually modeled trees" would be wiser.

[Livai]

What on earth is photorealistic in a computer simulation, how can you expect the devs even to reach that standard. The maps are actually the best out there at this time and with trees modelled individually. In the old IL2 it took ages for maps to be created that were no way as good as these.

 

Question is about what Standard we talk here about. This what we see here is the max what you can get out from DirectX 9.

[Beazil]

We can't make such a big city in a timely manner. Also, Luftwaffe bombed Moscow rarely fall and winter of 1941. The main air battles took place west of the city.

 

As for the first part of the statement, I'd argue you are doing just that - and I couldn't be happier about it.  I realize this is a labour of love for you guys as much as it is a means to earn a living.  Take my thoughts not as a criticism, but as perhaps high hopes for the future.  Keep up the great work.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Stuka, your feedback is appreciated and it did prompt me to double-check my memory to see if the photos matched my own personal experience.

 

I Googled this real quick just to give you guys an idea, I think they got it spot on (Khamovniki, Center-South-West Moscow, in late November):

 

 

While this is really late November and the photo is not mine, you can see that the trees still have a certain amount of foliage (late October would have a little more, though equally brown as well) and that everything looks as brown as it gets. Ah, the rain, and that sun that never comes

[TP_Jacko]

Don't be mad on me for not knowing a better, more clear term. Nobody expects DCS Nevada level of detail.

 

I slowly regret positng this because this comunity simply can't treat humble critic well.

Hey Stuka I am not mad at you the word is good. I just can't see how it can be a realistic goal for a computer game with all the weather conditions we have for BoS. If its possible I would be happy to see it oneday.

[Lukark]

Wonderful work.

it seems very realistic and immersive!

[BraveSirRobin]

Don't be mad on me for not knowing a better, more clear term. Nobody expects DCS Nevada level of detail.

 

I slowly regret positng this because this comunity simply can't treat humble critic well.

 

You're a flight model expert and a tree model expert.  There is no reason for you to be humble.

[tailwheel]

Totally amazing gentlemen! Beautiful work.
Happy New Year!