Bombers prefer to die after bombing.

[Xenunjeon88]

Has anyone noticed that some bomber pilots have discovered that instead of "wasting time" flying back to base to land, they prefer to just bail out, get killed or otherwise end their lives so that they can immediately jump into another plane back at base and bomb again immediately?

 

This is in multiplayer I mean.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Xenunjeon88

[ShamrockOneFive]

Ahh a well worn tradition in some multiplayer arenas.

 

Definitely not a new thing by any means. The reward for landing might need to be high r but for some people it won't matter.

[Finkeren]

Not just bombers. I've seen fighter pilots do the same. As soon as they get a kill they will bail out at the first sign of trouble to get at least half the points and preserve their K/D ratio.

 

That's just the nature of online games. We can try to deincentivise this behavior by only awarding full points if you land unscathed or by limiting the number of aircraft of a given type, but in the end we're never gonna get all players to behave like we want them to.

[Sokol1]

On the other side, one is damaged, make a difficult RTB - I did one with IL-2 in FL wheres I barely see something due gore all over cockpit - manage do land only to see a message that Flak or PlayerZ kill you, just because have caused some damage to your engine... 

 

Very boring, and I give a damn for score/stats, but imagine a "score player"...

Edited December 25, 2015 by Sokol1

[3instein]

On the other side, one is damaged, make a difficult RTB - I did one with IL-2 in FL wheres I barely see something due gore all over cockpit - manage do land only to see a message that Flak or PlayerZ kill you, just because have caused some damage o you engine... 

Exactly Sokol1, the game mechanics make crap this possible, I am sure it could be rectified with better point allocation, question is...will it ever get looked at?

 

Mick.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

On the other side, one is damaged, make a difficult RTB - I did one with IL-2 in FL wheres I barely see something due gore all over cockpit - manage do land only to see a message that Flak or PlayerZ kill you, just because have caused some damage to your engine... 

 

Very boring, and I give a damn for score/stats, but imagine a "score player"...

 

 

A shame, that's the best part!

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Right now on DED server they will limit to 3 planes per player. I hope other servers follow the example.

[TheElf]

Not just bombers. I've seen fighter pilots do the same. As soon as they get a kill they will bail out at the first sign of trouble to get at least half the points and preserve their K/D ratio.

 

That's just the nature of online games. We can try to deincentivise this behavior by only awarding full points if you land unscathed or by limiting the number of aircraft of a given type, but in the end we're never gonna get all players to behave like we want them to.

 

This is how it was handled on the Warbirds of Prey server for IL-2 1946.  100pts per kill and full credit (1 kill) if you "landed" it.  Of course this was only important because the site tracked kills and top pilots were judged by their ability to land their aircraft as well as score a kill.  Same for bombers.  And there were seperate categories for K/D and K/Sortie completion.  

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

What type of mp server? Normal, Full Real or both?

[Fidelity]

They should do 100% points for landing it, 50% for crash landing, and 25% for bailing out. Disconnect should be something like 5% or less .

 

Also, I am a bomber pilot and I always bring the plane back if I can. So it's not all of us .

[Xenunjeon88]

What type of mp server? Normal, Full Real or both?

The full real sim/advanced. Either I'm escorting them or behind them in a bomber and just see them bail out seconds after dropping bombs. I've only seen that twice though.

 

I've only played normal like... 5 times max? So I never came across it, but that was because I never played enough games.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Xenunjeon88

[Xenunjeon88]

They should do 100% points for landing it, 50% for crash landing, and 25% for bailing out. Disconnect should be something like 5% or less .

 

Also, I am a bomber pilot and I always bring the plane back if I can. So it's not all of us .

 

Do points actually matter? For some reason experience points are just kind of null once you unlock everything.

[Fidelity]

Experience points and multiplayer points are different. XP is for unlocking and only used in campaign; points is in multiplayer and is tracked via external websites. People will cheat to keep their stats high on these websites .

Edited December 26, 2015 by Fidelity

[F/JG300_Gruber]

They should do 100% points for landing it, 50% for crash landing, and 25% for bailing out. Disconnect should be something like 5% or less .

 

Also, I am a bomber pilot and I always bring the plane back if I can. So it's not all of us .

Also, from what I remember in the old IL2, crash landing in enemy territory makes you a PoW so no points earned at all.

At least it makes you try to bring it back in your own lines.

 

I also think that bringing back the plane after a successful mission is the most satisfying thing in the game, but I bet there are some people who just want to see the more 2500kg BOOM possible in the minimum amount of time and don't care about making it back alive.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

The are two mp point systems.  There are points awarded in the game while flying a map, which go away when the map rolls and then there are points awarded on the server's stats page which go toward career totals, etc.  If the bailing is happening in the Expert servers, my guess is it has nothing to do with gaining points on the server stats.  On these, if you bailed after bombing, you might get some points but it would be reduced, and the career would be over as you would be captured.

 

If someone is bailing after bombing on an Expert server, my guess is they are simply trying to win the map and don't care about points.  Just wondering, did they take the time to get to high altitude? 

 

I noticed this happening quite a number of times, by one individual in particular, before the stats pages were implemented.  After the stats pages became more common, I don't think I have seen it since.

 

As for me, I always try to bring it home.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

They should do 100% points for landing it, 50% for crash landing, and 25% for bailing out. Disconnect should be something like 5% or less .

 

Also, I am a bomber pilot and I always bring the plane back if I can. So it's not all of us .

Same here, The old bomb and bail. I saw it much more in the MMOG's like Warbirds and Aces high. Most of us bomber guys( I think) feel that the mission isn't over until you land. My squad's view on the bomb and bail tactics, don't do it ever. Bring it home or at least try to get back to friendly lines for a ditch or go find someone else to fly with. 

[TheElf]

Experience points and multiplayer points are different. XP is for unlocking and only used in campaign; points is in multiplayer and is tracked via external websites. People will cheat to keep their stats high on these websites .

 

 

I've always felt that for those who still have to grind (ie. they didn't purchase premium) MP play should could toward it.   But the Devs have seen fit to not code that.

 

The "points" only really matter if you are on a server that also tracks your progress and kills/deaths, and bombing accuracy as some measure of your skill relative to other players.  Wings of Liberty is the only server I know to do this, thought there may be more.  In the end, it will never stop the casual player who could give two terds about his "score" on some random website he is probably unaware of.

[Fidelity]

I agree, elf. Multiplayer should count towards unlocks.

 

I know that -ded- expert random server also uses Vaal's stat tracking website.

 

There is no real feasible method to keep casual players from ditching the plane to take off in a new one without being overly restrictive on others. The point restrictions would mostly be to keep stat tracking players honest.

[xvii-Dietrich]

It comes down to what the stats are supporting.

 

If you only reward target-destroyed, then of course some players will fly bomb-and-bail in order to get two loads on target, compared to hose of us who will fly home and carefully land. If you change this somehow to reward preservation of aircraft/pilot-life, then there will be a shift in emphasis and, thus, flying style. When this was done on one of the IL-2:Cliffs of Dover servers, there was a drastic change in the behaviour and a much more rewarding experience for those who want to fly in this self-preservation style.

 

You could even go further and couple fighter rewards to bomber survival, thus actually encouraging fighters to stick with their charges, rather than go flying off after the first dot they see. Bombers sometimes don't have much luck getting a reliable escort compared to their historical counterparts.

 

But most flight sims are fighter-sims first and foremost, with bombers added as an afterthought (if you are lucky). Certainly the IL-2 series is progressive, but it still has a long way to go in terms of encouraging complete bombing missions.

[coconut]

From a game optimization perspective, if the number of planes is unlimited, then bringing back your plane hurts your team. You are better off throwing it away and taking off with a new plane. Similarly, shooting down a bomber that has delivered its payload and is returning to base is helping the opponent's team, since you are "helping" them respawn earlier than they would returning home.

 

For this reason, I would suggest mission designers to always limit the number of planes at advanced airfields. This way, the team that brings back their planes should have a shorter turn-around time, deliver more explosives to targets and win the mission.

 

Rear airfields can have unlimited number of aircrafts, but they have to be more than twice as far from the battlefield.

Edited December 28, 2015 by coconut

[Livai]

We have a new Hero! A true Kamikaze pilot that survive everytime.

 

Question to all: How to kill this kind of pilot???
Here the flight record maybe someone can help me to say me how to kill him???
http://www13.zippyshare.com/v/KXWQjsEC/file.html

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

From a game optimization perspective, if the number of planes is unlimited, then bringing back your plane hurts your team. You are better off throwing it away and taking off with a new plane. Similarly, shooting down a bomber that has delivered its payload and is returning to base is helping the opponent's team, since you are "helping" them respawn earlier than they would returning home.

 

For this reason, I would suggest mission designers to always limit the number of planes at advanced airfields. This way, the team that brings back their planes should have a shorter turn-around time, deliver more explosives to targets and win the mission.

 

Rear airfields can have unlimited number of aircrafts, but they have to be more than twice as far from the battlefield.

 

I was and still am against limiting the number of planes at an airfield for a host of reasons that I won't go into.  What -DED- implemented on their Expert server is restriction of 3 aircraft per pilot per map.  After that you drive a tank or fly resupply missions.  If you bring home the plane, you keep up your count.  This is a much better approach in my opinion.

 

I don't know if they will limit the number of planes at an airfield as well or not.  I don't think they need to now.  The 3 aircraft approach cures many of the ills mentioned here by itself.

 

link:http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13331-ded-servers-russia-love/?p=318121

Edited December 28, 2015 by MrStick

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I think it really is the ideal solution, yes.

[Tenko]

I wish Bombers could rearm instead of respawn when you return to runways.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Did not really read above but...

 

I fly bombers on hard mode mp and I will always try to get back.

 

But I will also bail if I'm done!! To save lifes.

 

There is insensitive to land on servers like WOL as if u don't the plane will not be available.

 

My big problem is fighters not understanding that mechanism

[coconut]

 

 

What -DED- implemented on their Expert server is restriction of 3 aircraft per pilot per map

 

I agree that's probably the best solution, but for now it's only available to DED. Doing what they do requires additional software that AFAIK they have not shared.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I agree that's probably the best solution, but for now it's only available to DED. Doing what they do requires additional software that AFAIK they have not shared.

 

Ah, I didn't know that, very interesting.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I personally prefer the realism of flying a full mission. Trying to land a damaged aircraft is even better. 100% Points should only be awarded if you land. The partial point system for crashing or ejecting should be eliminated. Maybe potentially if you eject or land in friendly territory 50%. Every multiplayer game since unlocks and progression has been a thing has allowed players to rank up and unlock upgrades while playing multiplayer I't absolutely insane you can't do so in this game.