The 190 and engine Damage

[KoN_]

Seems the 190 has a weak engine when it comes to combat , seems the engine always gets damaged even in  JaBo attacks low level  , just a few rounds of  small arms fire or AAA or any other hit the engine icon comes on and frontal attacks .

I was under the impression this was a tough plane to bring down .

Any historic views .

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Radials in theory should be a little more rugged but that's not gospel.

 

I find that most of the engines in game will easily say there is damage but the measure of their strength is how far you can go after the initial damage before it dies

[Finkeren]

Remember that the orange engine damage symbol comes on when the engine is damaged to any degree which means that even with the slightest damage from small caliber fire, which often has pretty much no impact on engine performance, you'll still see the symbol.

 

Black smoke is usually a good sign, that the damage is serious and in the length fatal, though I have flown entire missions with the La-5 trailing thin black smoke.

[Dakpilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FzzEyegJQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhJI0aHXHI

 

Substitute all aluminium (Block &cylinders) BMW 801 for cast iron V8 

 

Radials are no more 'rugged' but just by the nature of the layout it is possible to get damage to a single cylinder and continue to run, however this will not be for long at combat power and will obviously have a performance loss

 

If anything the larger frontal are of Radial means a bigger target, but also more protection  when doing Jabo

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited December 20, 2015 by Dakpilot

[Finkeren]

Radials are considered less damage prone simply because they don't rely on an internal water cooling system, which can easily get punctured and rendered useless. Other than that, the engine block is really no more sturdy than a V-engine.

[JtD]

Substitute all aluminium (Block &cylinders) BMW 801 for cast iron V8 

Amazing how little damage that round did even to such a small engine.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Radials are considered less damage prone simply because they don't rely on an internal water cooling system, which can easily get punctured and rendered useless. Other than that, the engine block is really no more sturdy than a V-engine.

That + they were less prone to engine fires. Furthermore pilots preferred having radial engines for headon attacks due to better pilot protection.

 

Radial engines are also well shaped so once a bullet hits it it will likely be reflected.

 

As a german pilot report once said, if you had a damage cylinder in the 190 (noticeably by unconsident RPM) you simply chopped your throttle, let the revs come down and apply full power rapidly to simply blow the damaged cylinder away. After that the engine could be operated as usual.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Wulf]

That + they were less prone to engine fires. Furthermore pilots preferred having radial engines for headon attacks due to better pilot protection.

 

Radial engines are also well shaped so once a bullet hits it it will likely be reflected.

 

As a german pilot report once said, if you had a damage cylinder in the 190 (noticeably by unconsident RPM) you simply chopped your throttle, let the revs come down and apply full power rapidly to simply blow the damaged cylinder away. After that the engine could be operated as usual.

 

 

As Fink has already noted, the greater durability of radial engines, over inline engines, is due to the fact that they are air cooled rather than liquid cooled - so you don't have to worry about radiator damage, coolant line damage or water jacket damage.  

 

However, beyond that I think you have to be a bit cautious. I don't doubt that there have been numerous instances where heavily damaged radial engines have kept working against the odds, in circumstances where an inline motor would probably have given up the ghost.  But to suggest that you can routinely lose a cylinder head and just 'keep on truckin' is to go too far.  The operation of any IC engine relies on effective lubrication.  Lose a cylinder head and you lose your oil.  Lose your oil and the engine stops.  In some circumstances that process will be immediate and in some circumstances it will take a little time but make no mistake about it, when your cylinder head gets shot away, your motor has gone terminal.

[Potenz]

Amazing how little damage that round did even to such a small engine.

small damage??? the freaking bullet go all the way trough the bloody engine???

that is catastrophic damage for an engine.

 

@Dakpilot, even a .50 bullet can be deadly to an engine as the M8A1 rifle is used

for anti vehicles duties. great videos to show how much damage a single bullet can

deal

[Dakpilot]

Most radial engines do not have cylinder heads, especially what we have in BoS, the entire cylinder, and head are one piece. when this unit is 'blown off' the engine has suffered catastrophic damage, oil/fuel lines will be ripped off, part of the con-rod may be thrashing around, the engine will be badly out of balance, and the internals of the engine will be exposed, there will be a very good chance of an oil or fuel fire

 

 

With a radial it is (possible) able to continue running because the power of the remaining 13 cylinders (BMW 801) will overcome damage/friction and tendency to seize by brute force alone, any power reduction will likely result in an instant seize and no way to restart

 

having flown a lot of radials and helped rebuild many I can assure you that losing a cylinder will most of the time cause the engine to run in such a way that you will have to shut it down even if it has not failed.

 

with the multiple million air miles covered by radial engines there will always be a number of unusual and unlikely events and stories, but for each heavily damaged radial that continued running and brought its pilot 'home' there were many that didn't and were not written about

 

How this would/should be taken into account in a sim will be a subject for debate 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

[JtD]

small damage??? the freaking bullet go all the way trough the bloody engine???that is catastrophic damage for an engine.

Bad for the engine, catastrophic for the tiny bits in the way of the bullet. Assuming military standards, there's a chance even that engine would keep on running, let along one ten times as large. Edited December 22, 2015 by JtD

[Potenz]

that is catastrophic damage for an engine.Bad for the engine, catastrophic for the tiny bits in the way of the bullet. Assuming military standards, there's a chance even that engine would keep on running, let along one ten times as large.

mate do you know how an engine works??? seems that you have no clue

[KoN_]

Thanks for the replies gents , IMHO i think the 190 should be a bit more tougher than what it is at the moment .

so far Most engagements end with engine damage first stage .

[Y-29.Silky]

A friend of mine had problems taking one down last night in a Mig. 190 shot him down with a damaged engine at 5000m. One thing for sure in this game, is it's tougher than the 109 engine.

[Willy__]

 

 

is it's tougher than the 109 engine.

 

On a side note, nothing is thougher than the la5 engine.  

[303_Kwiatek]

I watch mig3 control by autopilot when got engine hit and oil splash windscreen it flew long time about 10 minutes without engine broke using high power. I think after such heavy oil leak engine should broke very fast.

Edited December 23, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[Finkeren]

I watch mig3 control by autopilot when got engine hit and oil splash windscreen it flew long time about 10 minutes without engine broke using high power. I think after such heavy oil leak engine should broke very fast.

 

Depends on the size of the leak and the oil tank capacity. As long as the oil leak is the only damage to the engine, it'll continue functioning as normal until oil pressure drops below a critical level, after which the engine will rapidly take damage and seize within minutes. You really have no way of telling how big the leak was. It could have been a slow trickle or a fatal hemorrage, and it would look the same in the sim.

 

The AI isn't affected by the oil spatter on the windscreen like we are. Most of us would likely try to leave the fight, as soon as we see oil on the windscreen, regardless of how much time the engine has left, because we know we'll soon be rendered blind.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Depends on the size of the leak and the oil tank capacity. As long as the oil leak is the only damage to the engine, it'll continue functioning as normal until oil pressure drops below a critical level, after which the engine will rapidly take damage and seize within minutes. You really have no way of telling how big the leak was. It could have been a slow trickle or a fatal hemorrage, and it would look the same in the sim.

 

The AI isn't affected by the oil spatter on the windscreen like we are. Most of us would likely try to leave the fight, as soon as we see oil on the windscreen, regardless of how much time the engine has left, because we know we'll soon be rendered blind.

Which, for a 109 driver, is a bit ironic considering that most of the 109s had a "windshield wiping" feature - I think it was a petrol by pass.