AI Issues in PWCG

[LLv24_Zami]

I got couple of missions tonight where was few passive and circling AI flights.

 

First one is an escort mission, it had enemy He-111 flight circling at west of Alexandrovka near Gumrak airfield. Second mission was ground attack and it had a flight of Bf-110s doing the same near target area. I attacked both flights on those missions and they ignored me completely and continued circling until destroyed. Their gunners won`t fire back.

 

Also landing wp won`t activate. I mean the last wp don`t turn blue.

 

I attached mission files here in case you wan`t to take a look at their orders: Missions.zip

 

 

Keep up the good work, I`ve enjoyed it!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Zami

[Yogiflight]

Today I had a big surprise, when flying with the 109 Gustav for the first time since release of 1.2.1. I just had my touchdown after RTB on the right side of the runway, when suddenly on the left side I was passed by a wingman, who had landed in the opposed direction, luckily also on his right side of the track. I was flying two more missions and indeed the AI wingmen always landed their aircrafts. I thought AI isn`t able to land? BTW they landed in the wrong direction, to the east, but starting is always to the west.

[LLv24_Zami]

Today I had a big surprise, when flying with the 109 Gustav for the first time since release of 1.2.1. I just had my touchdown after RTB on the right side of the runway, when suddenly on the left side I was passed by a wingman, who had landed in the opposed direction, luckily also on his right side of the track. I was flying two more missions and indeed the AI wingmen always landed their aircrafts. I thought AI isn`t able to land? BTW they landed in the wrong direction, to the east, but starting is always to the west.

They land all right. But there is a problem with last landing wp not activating properly.

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Talking about the AI of bf109 fighter it's horrible. 109s in your staffel cannot use the boom-zoom tactic properly, can not play the spiral climb trick. after 1st touch they just try the crazy energy burning suicide tactics and turn all around like a mad. this is realy no fun to play campaign with current AI. I know that PWCG can do nothing about it. sorry to complain it in this thread.

[No.42_Wholehawg]

S! Patrick and thank you for all the hard work you have put in on this great piece of software!  I am surprised that something like this was not included with the original game.

 

I am only about 3 - 4 missions in on my first campaign and one thing I noticed is that the enemy AI seems to fixate on me a good bit of the time.  I had one mission where 4 I-16s, 2 Lagg's and 2 P-40s all trying to get to me and completely ignoring the rest of my flight and other aircraft in the area.  I haven't noticed this type of behavior in the regular campaign so I am wondering if there is some flag or setting that gets applied to the player AC that makes it a more desirable target for the AI?

 

I have seen this behaviour to a lesser extent in the QMB and the old IL2, but typically if I put a flight of friendly AI between me and the enemy AI, The enemy would switch targets to address the closest threat.

 

I am sure that this is fundamentally a bug in the game but there does seem to be some kind of trigger that makes it manifest to a much greater extent in the few missions I have run.

 

I am going to continue play the campaign and look at the mission files to see if I can find anything that stands out.  

[Bando]

I reported this issue time and time again.

The only plausible conclusion from various experts on this forum:

 

"It's you!!

You cannot fly the aircraft to it's full potential, so the AI thinks "yummy" and comes after you."

So in short: It's you're own fault.

 

Kidding aside, it is a problem that is not fully recognized by either the devs or by Patrick.

I know the way I fly is ok, but the enemy keeps coming for me, even if I disengage early on and just abandon the area, they (the AI) will follow me in numbers, disregarding their fuel states, disregarding the fact that their plane is sometimes puffing out black smoke and disregarding my wingmates (who are useless anyway).

 

I decided not to report on this matter again, but seeing your post I could not resist.

 

Ah well, we'll see if this will ever get resolved.

Most of the time I stop and try the mission again if this happens.

Sometimes that works, other times I leave the sim in utter disgust.

 

Life's a b*****

[No.42_Wholehawg]

Brando,

 

Do you notice it in the regular campaign?  I have play through about 2/3rd of the BoS campaign and I can't say that I have noticed this behaviour.  I wonder if there is a way to open a campaign mission and compare the properties of the player AC to that of a PWCG mission.  

 

I am sure the "It's you" answer is just a punt.  

 

I am going to dig into it a bit and see if I can find some kind of pattern.  

[LLv24_Zami]

I am sorry to say but I don`t see this behaviour very much. And no, I am not an expert, just a guy who have flown many missions in PWCG. And in BoS campaign. Not saying anybody is wrong or it doesn`t exist, just that I personally haven`t been noticing it very much    

 

Has happened sometimes in both but normally AI fight my wingmen just the same as me. So a more investigation sure is welcomed on the issue!

 

Unfortunately, I just don`t think Pat can anything about it. It is an AI issue and devs have to deal with it.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I am sorry to say but I don`t see this behaviour very much. And no, I am not an expert, just a guy who have flown many missions in PWCG. And in BoS campaign. Not saying anybody is wrong or it doesn`t exist, just that I personally haven`t been noticing it very much    

 

Has happened sometimes in both but normally AI fight my wingmen just the same as me. So a more investigation sure is welcomed on the issue!

 

Unfortunately, I just don`t think Pat can anything about it. It is an AI issue and devs have to deal with it.

 

I've flown many hours of PWCG myself and it is something I have noticed in every career I've generated throughout any of the versions even when it was "closed beta."

 

*Actually, I just had this happen last night... Engaged by a swarm of Yaks and La-5's outside of Stalingrad, I was damaged and wounded so I pushed for a hasty retreat while our JG descended from 4000m in to a treetop furball (for whatever reason...). I was chased by two heavily damaged La-5's (one trailing black smoke) and 3 of their lesser-damaged cohorts over my own lines nearly all the way back to my airfield... With the fact that the other 11 109's of my flight scattered in every direction, crashed into the trees/ground during the senseless furball and there is no meaningful radio communication between the AI and the player I was left to my fate against 5 La-5's just outside of our airfield.

 

**I use Luke's modified unit/airfield file so the distance that they chased me over my own lines was pretty significant... My campaign started in mid-August and it is a good 30-45 minute climb/flight to the Stalingrad front. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Space_Ghost

[LLv24_Zami]

I've flown many hours of PWCG myself and it is something I have noticed in every career I've generated throughout any of the versions even when it was "closed beta."

That is really weird.

 

Do you play stock campaign? You see same there?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

That is really weird.

 

Do you play stock campaign? You see same there?

 

I've got 5 hours in the stock campaign due to the fact we didn't have the Unlocks button right away - past that I haven't touched it.

 

I do see it in QMB.

[Bando]

Never seen it in stock campaign.

[No.42_Wholehawg]

Well I did a few tests in QMB and the regular campaign,  the AI seems to behave fine.  Although I have flown 2 more missions in PWCG and it's OK in there now.  So it seems to be something that just goes wrong with particular missions from time to time.  

 

One thing I did notice when I opened the missions in the builder.  In the properties of the aircraft there is section that points to an "aircraft script"  and I noticed that this location does not exist in my game directory structure.   Seems odd but I don't know what that script is supposed to do.   I am guessing its an optional thing since  it seems to be working in general without it.

[TP_Silk]

It happens to me quite frequently in the stock campaign, especially at higher pilot levels (10 plus), I find that if you can enter a long, shallow power dive and outrun them then they will eventually give up, but if you are anywhere in their detection range they will just bear on in and eventually reach you once you slow down for landing approach or similar.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Silk

[Mainstay]

Hi Pat,

 

Question about the AI enemies. Why are all the enemies focused only on me?

They ignore every other plane and all keep following me. Today i tried a mission as a Luftwaffe Me-109F2 Pilot and we bumped into 4x P-40's, 4x Yak-1's, 4x IL-2's and 2xPe-2's.

Even though my group leader and other group planes reached the enemies earlier then me all the P-40's and all the Yak-1's jumped me and kept following/attacking me till i was dead.

Is there a setting i should change to make this different? Because like the above situation describes its not a lot of fun. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Hi Pat,

 

Question about the AI enemies. Why are all the enemies focused only on me?

They ignore every other plane and all keep following me. Today i tried a mission as a Luftwaffe Me-109F2 Pilot and we bumped into 4x P-40's, 4x Yak-1's, 4x IL-2's and 2xPe-2's.

Even though my group leader and other group planes reached the enemies earlier then me all the P-40's and all the Yak-1's jumped me and kept following/attacking me till i was dead.

Is there a setting i should change to make this different? Because like the above situation describes its not a lot of fun. 

 

I think that this is a limitation of the game engine. Past setting certain flight criteria for the AI in the ME, Pat wouldn't/doesn't have any fine control over the way the AI pilots fly or fight.

[MKDAWUSS]

Hi Pat,

 

Question about the AI enemies. Why are all the enemies focused only on me?

They ignore every other plane and all keep following me. Today i tried a mission as a Luftwaffe Me-109F2 Pilot and we bumped into 4x P-40's, 4x Yak-1's, 4x IL-2's and 2xPe-2's.

Even though my group leader and other group planes reached the enemies earlier then me all the P-40's and all the Yak-1's jumped me and kept following/attacking me till i was dead.

Is there a setting i should change to make this different? Because like the above situation describes its not a lot of fun. 

 

Hopefully that eventually gets fixed, because I had a similar experience earlier. I was in a JU-87 (along with a squad leader and 3 wingmen) and I spent half the mission being chased by 6 P-40s. I and my wing dropped our bombs on the intended target, while 2 ME-109s (I would assume our escorts) just flew around minding their own business. The best (or worst) part was trying to limp home with a fuel leak (I couldn't see) and having those P-40s still chase me all the way back to my home base. Eventually one caught me and hit me in the cockpit (and in a few other parts), and I had to crash land. Then things got lame when I saw 2 JU-87s, 2 P-40s, and 2 ME-109s just circling around the starting airfield.

[Mainstay]

Any word on this?

[Yogiflight]

This is no PWCG problem, but an AI problem. It happens in the games campaign as well, quite often. Even when you are flying in formation, enemy aircrafts rarely attack the wingmen, but fly through your formation to attack you. Why? Because they can. Your wingmen hardly ever help you. If you were flying alone, it would be the same.

[Taxman]

This is no PWCG problem, but an AI problem. It happens in the games campaign as well, quite often. Even when you are flying in formation, enemy aircrafts rarely attack the wingmen, but fly through your formation to attack you. Why? Because they can. Your wingmen hardly ever help you. If you were flying alone, it would be the same.

I know what you mean.  What I started doing is using my self as bait.   At times there are as many as 3 Al trying to get me, so what I starting doing is bring along 6 planes and as soon as we are engaged I start ordering the flight to engage the nearest enemy plane. After the first pass  I then try to out run and out manuver (bear in mind this is with a fighter) all the time ordering my fight to attack my pursuer's, my wing men do manage to down some or damage them enough that it makes it easy to pick them off.  Also by using your self as bait you must be patient and let your wing men do their job, and remember to continue to order them to attack. Oh one other thing is that in order to do what I do is that your must the flight leader.

[Yogiflight]

You are the bait, anyway. But you are right, it is the best way to handle this problem. I used to turn away and just try to get rid of them, but it is much better to turn to your wingmen and let them do their job, as you wrote it. Just be careful not to fly between your wingmen ant the aircraft, they want to shoot at, because they don´t really care if there is any kind of friendly "obstacle" between them and their target.

[Taxman]

Yogi, your last sentence is right, just don't get in the way of your wing men, happened to me once

Edited August 1, 2016 by Taxman