Be a sport, huh?

[Lusekofte]

It is never one thing that make me frustrated, it´s always a combination of 3 to 4 things in a row. Earlier I was spawning in a PE-2 and got a fighter on my tail caused by its ground loop, spawned again and this time I taxied behind 4 fighters, suddenly the last fighter ground looped and I could not stop in time , 3 time I got to the air and was vulched by a swarm of 110 and had to return again. 

A little later I was on return from target and was attacked , I turned against the sun and went into the gunner position and got the message I destroyed the target, but the fighter disconnected , and I did not get the kill.

Now I never did care about the stats, but really, did this pilot expect me to fight a underdog fight and go down and die so he could have a kill? 

I always fight to the bitter end, out of respect to the attacker, I like situations like this. Without the danger it would only be a bus ride. Be a sport and go down like a gentleman. I do not know where the stats is, and I do not care. But it give satisfaction right there and then. And a motivation to go on.  

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Some of the stats are wonky right now after the patch. I'm missing about half of my kills on the stats page at the moment. I's just an anomaly. Take heart in the fact you killed him and don't worry about the stats for now.

Edited December 2, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Major_Hero]

I fly the pe2 quite a bit myself and have noticed that when I'm attacked by fighters and many an occasion, I have found them to disconnect shortly after they have received damage. After a short time they are back in the air in a new aircraft. When I'm damaged, I fight to the bitter end.

 

It's the state of play for some. I can't imagine the immersion experience is good for them, which gives Me satisfaction

[Alkyan]

Stats record the number of disconnection and weight your score with a penalty. It is called the FairPlay ratio or something similar.

 

So this kind of behavior is not totally unpunished

[Broadsword]

I'd rather that than the new occurrence of friendly fire I now experience in the Pe-2. Funnily enough, it has started as the 110 came out....

 

The vulching is a pain in the backside. But I believe in Karma. It is very, very rewarding to lead a flight of PE-2's (in one case) and catch a large handful of the other team on the taxi way.

 

As for the ground collisions, it does seem that patience is a lacking commodity at times.

[Y-29.Silky]

Ground collisions are going to happen more often now that there's a wave of new players. I never get annoyed by this, doesn't happen too often, it's always an accident, sometimes there's 10 aircraft in one small area, no atc. I'm always jaw dropped when I see so many people in the taxi way waiting to take off and no collisions. 

 

I'm noticing more discos and more discos at moments that are painfully obvious it was intentional. Especially when they won't say anything when they reconnect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "current life" stats will be reset, not their k/d.

 

The vulching is out of control, German pilots doing 99% of it.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[F/JG300_Gruber]

 

The vulching is out of control, German pilots doing 99% of it.

 

Must be 50/50 then because I would have said that Russian pilots are doing 99% of it 

[Y-29.Silky]

Must be 50/50 then because I would have said that Russian pilots are doing 99% of it 

 

No one can convince me that Germans have it bad 

And for those who never fly Russian and always say, "Spawn at another airfield, simple as that."

 

http://gfycat.com/BruisedSerpentineBlueshark

Edited December 2, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[F/JG300_Gruber]

HA !!! you see ! red planes vulching ! I knew russians were deeply involved 

 

 

Joke aside, I don't know on which server you took your screens but that's indeed a lot of vulching   ​ 

[Y-29.Silky]

Joke aside, I don't know on which server you took your screens but that's indeed a lot of vulching   ​

Yup lol, daily occurrence in the Wings of Liberty server.

[Wulf]

Huh???

 

But vulching, like chute-shooting, actually happened during the War so why would anyone even raise it as an issue????

[Lusekofte]

I do not mind the so called vulch I reported here, it was a fair organized attack on the airfield , done by 3 to 4 110´s . I just right there and then after 3 attempts felt it was unfair. The

vulching in general in about 99% of the times end with death to the vulcher(´s) in this case also. Attacking a enemy base with 110 with no top cover is suicide.

The fact that fighters find it so humiliating that I manage to take them down with my fixed forward gun combined with using rear gun , that they choose to disconnect rather than take the fight to the end , rather amuse me, but I feel they expect me to be a polite fat target and give them a free kill every time they call for it, that I got a problem with.

I have a right to have as much fun as them. I can also disconnect every time I get chased by a fighter, but it would ruin the fun , for the attacker and ultimately myself.

There is no greater victory than survive a fighter attack, most people hunting me are far to clever to make a easy target for me. They manage to shoot me down.

So my question is, when I get my few lucky hits. Hand them to me plz 

Edited December 2, 2015 by LuseKofte

[Sokol1]

The guys take-off and goes for where they can find and monitor the enemy activity:  the nearest airfield - tanks to the "AWACS/RADAR/GPS".  

 

What expect?

 

That planes take-off and go for a grid XYZ and wait the enemy go for same grid, then someone shoot a flare and the duel start, in "Far West" style? 

[Y-29.Silky]

I do not mind the so called vulch I reported here, it was a fair organized attack on the airfield , done by 3 to 4 110´s .

They weren't 3-4 Bf-110's, they were all Bf-109's. The pictures above me was last night.

Here's tonight. A squad of 109's going from airfield to airfield diving on Russian aircraft before they can reach 500m while ignoring all their bombers and objectives.

There's nothing fair about it. (Especially when there were 50 Germans vs 22 Russians)

 

I don't mind when ground attack aircraft attack a player airfield, I actually want to see more of it. Or even a 109 dropping a bomb and heading on his way is cool.

 

But the constant gun strafes/base camping furballs over Russian airfields is getting really boring/annoying.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[Y-29.Silky]

But vulching, like chute-shooting, actually happened during the War so why would anyone even raise it as an issue????

 

Camping enemy airfields never happened in real life. Bf-109's were never sent directly to an enemy airfield to strafe enemies. That is called suicide. 

And this in't real life, this is a video game. There's no resources we have to worry about. All I want to do is fly my favorite flight simulator. That's why it's an issue to me.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Y-29.Silky

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I just want to say that every thing happened in WW2 (Chute-Shoot, Vultching, Low level airfield attack, ramming.....)

 

Its all about frequency i.e it did not happen that much.

 

 

There was a notable raid at the end of ww2 by the Luftwaffe on American airfield's which was a total big "Vulture" engagement, this was around the same time a Luft squad decided to ram Allied bombers.

 

(Funnily enough the above happened due to in-xp/desperate pilots just the same as in game)

 

ALL Im saying is that this is a frequency debate!!!! There is no it did or did not happen because it all did!!!(hmm that last sentance does not make logical scene but ok)

 

Watch luft deadliest missions on youtube 

Edited December 3, 2015 by [TBC]AeroACE

[Sokol1]

 Bf-109's were never sent directly to an enemy airfield to strafe enemies. That is called suicide. 

Mmm, some samples:

 

Manston, August 11, 1940 - 13:25 Hrs - Bf 110's and Bf 109 of Erpro210 come for bomb and strafing that base, RAF 54 Squadron try scramble.

 

June 22, 1941, Operation Barbarossa start with a big "vultching" over Russian air bases.

 

As mentioned above, the Bodenplatte was a big "vultching" over Allied bases on Belgium/North of France.

 

Of course, IRL they bomb, strafe an "get he hell ouf of Dodge", not parking over like in flight games.

 

The only way to stop "vultching" is "Syssy Rules" like in il-2'46 Spit x 109.

[Wulf]

I was being facetious.  

 

I agree with you that 'anything and everything' happened in WW 2.  But to my way of thinking, that doesn't mean we have to incorporate brutishness in the game.  So, just in case anyone is unsure, we don't have to run death camps, we don't have to kill each other with entrenching tools, we don't have to rape women, we don't have to lay wounded soldiers out on a road and run over them with tanks and we don't have to shoot pilots who bail out - among other things.

 

If you do feel the need to shoot pilots in chutes I think you should have a hard look at your motivations.  Are you really trying to be 'historically accurate' or are you, in fact, just doing it to piss people off?  If it's the latter, maybe you should consider some type of therapy.  

[Yogiflight]

The question is, which mistake are you speaking of, saburo, the only mistake he could have done, when getting killed before beeing able to start, can be, joyning this server.

[Cybermat47]

My rules for vulching: Only vulch front-line airfields, and never vulch the same player twice in a row.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Cybermat47

[KoN_]

Put more Flak batteries around the airfields some are sniper trained anyhow ,It will soon stop the vulchers .

All it does is drive people away from the game , disconnect and go some where else .

And yes we know it happened in war but this isn't a War its a computer game with the people looking for fair play .

[Lusekofte]

You know it was not really a report on vulching. But ok . First off a attack on airfields did happened . But never alone, it was a organized joint effort done by returning escort P-51 or a attack force. Going alone was suicide and it is in this game. This game worst enemy is the ones that uses it, personally I have no problem 99% of the time. 

But that 1 % I am not happy frustrate me in a degree that I do not fly for a week . 

Vulching is not one of them, if it is it is combined by multiple taxi accident . What I react on is things like Silky here point out, a constant spawn camping on all Russian airfields. This you do not see happens on german airfields. 

In a way this game are doomed, the majority fly 109 F and YAK , they do not bother with role-play and sim. They want points. The good news is , they gonna be pretty fed up pretty fast and leave 

Edited December 3, 2015 by LuseKofte

[Wulf]

Vulching is just part of the game. If you can gather a bunch of guys and get to enemy base unnoticed and kill the guys sitting on the ground before they can even react then gj you outsmarted them.

 

 

 

 

Motivations? We're all here to play the game and have fun aren't we?

 

 

 

 

If it really pisses you off that much maybe it's you here who should consider therapy. i just dont get it, if your pilot gets killed then so what? its just a game. Maybe people should try to learn from their mistakes and try to become a better pilot instead of whining on the forums after getting killed. like......what do you lose after getting killed.....your ego? cmon....its just an opportunity to learn from your mistakes.

 

 

It's 'tea bagging' by another name.  

 

But just do whatever gets you hard Suburo.   It's not my job to teach you the meaning of fair play or tell you what constitutes honourable behaviour.  Frankly I suspect you'd struggle with the concepts in any event.  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

From what I recall even in the most adventurous days of 1941 in the East the Luftwaffe would send a large number of aircraft on an airfield attack, allowing for one or at most two passes each and then everybody is to go home. Even when they went 'camping' (i.e. waiting for aircraft to come in for landing or take off so they can bounce them while they're slow) there was a lot more planning involved. The free hunters would have to stay somewhere where they will not be seen, and with enough speed to get the hell out of there as soon as they nail a target to avoid falling prey to a whole squadron of Soviet fighters.

 

The Soviet pilots were obviously extremely pissed off at these instances - they didn't usually do a lot of damage, but it was the sole recurrence of losing one pilot every now and then already on final, after fighting their way through hell in a mission. Then they started setting up ways to fight these techniques. In no way did people hang around 'spawn camping'.

 

In the old Il-2 there was a fun mission in one of the stock MiG-3 campaigns where German pilots were picking off bombers upon landing and the regiment decided to get back at them. The player takes 2 MiG-3s, both painted with German crosses on them, and flies at 200m over the enemy lines until they reach the airfield; then the catch is to fly low away from the runway but covering the approach areas. As soon as the pair of 109s appears and one of them drops the gear while the other is flying at pattern speed behind it, the MiG-3 pair comes out of the woodwork at 400km/h and hits them before they can even react. When flying the mission I would make a pass on the airfield for good measure and take out whatever I could with my less-than-impressive armament, then head straight home at full throttle.

[beepee]

Like others have said, the answer lies in vicious amounts of FLAK.

 

Hell, then if a squad wants to vlch a base they will have to organise a group to de-ack the base first.

 

This would lessen the vulching a bit and add another element to gameplay in the server.

 

Then again, it is entirely up to the server owners, and at the end of the day, if you are getting that annoyed you can always go fly somewhere else.

 

It really is an old argument that will forever go around in circles.

[Alkyan]

Fair play is also take on yourself and not blame your opponent way of playing for your death.

 

Vulchers are quite courageous for me as a swarm of players will quickly arrive to execute them in a very one sided battle.

 

vulching where team are really unbalanced is another problem. But things are way better than before concerning side balance in my opinion.

[bokepacha]

Put more Flak batteries around the airfields some are sniper trained anyhow ,It will soon stop the vulchers .

All it does is drive people away from the game , disconnect and go some where else .

And yes we know it happened in war but this isn't a War its a computer game with the people looking for fair play .

These days I can't find a lot of people in WoL so I spend my half an hour of flying in the official server.

 

Everyday, everytime, it's russians being vultched by germans because there are always at least 50% more players on that side.

 

And yes, it only makes me log off faster. Being killed once, that happens. Being killed 3 times in a row by the same plane vultching for 5 minutes, not fun.

[Cybermat47]

  It's not my job to teach you the meaning of fair play or tell you what constitutes honourable behaviour.

 

This is a video game. It isn't an actual war. Honour doesn't come into it.

[Y-29.Silky]

There was a notable raid at the end of ww2 by the Luftwaffe on American airfield's which was a total big "Vulture" engagement,

 

One of those airfields was Y-29

 

A) Vulching is just part of the game. If you can gather a bunch of guys and get to enemy base unnoticed and kill the guys sitting on the ground before they can even react then gj you outsmarted them.

 

B) Motivations? We're all here to play the game and have fun aren't we?

C) If it really pisses you off that much maybe it's you here who should consider therapy. i just dont get it, if your pilot gets killed then so what? its just a game. Maybe people should try to learn from their mistakes and try to become a better pilot instead of whining on the forums after getting killed. like......what do you lose after getting killed.....your ego? cmon....its just an opportunity to learn from your mistakes.

A) If they did this with a Stuka, 110, He-111, IL-2, or Pe-2, that is something to admire. And it used to happen a lot a year ago.

Even if you were parked at the airfield on the other end of a Stuka siren, you were like, "Damn, that's cool..."

 

B) Yes, we're all here to play the game and have fun, not to act as cannon fodder for a few people.

 

C) What do you gain by vulching defenseless aircraft, your ego?

 

[Ace_Pilto]

LuseKoft, I feel you, but...

 

<sarcasm> 

 

It must be horrible looking at the stats page and seeing that missing point so, by the powers vested by nobody in particular in me I hereby award you 1 point. It's not the point you were hoping for but I can assure you that it is equally as meaningless and trivial.

 

</sarcasm>

 

First world problems buddy, suck it up and move on to the next sortie. There will be other victories and bombings of the airfields where disconnecting douchebags will cry salty tears of dismay over the havoc you cause, keep moving forward!

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

Stats lead to arcadish behavior hence vulching in WoL.  I personally think stats in a flight sim are redundant and silly.  It only leads to selfish, obnoxious behavior.

Just a theory because I will say before stats were introduced for that server, vulching was there but not nearly as rampant as it is now.  I don't find it to be some big coincidence.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I never said its what I do (as it will generally get u killed) but I was just trying to stop this perception that these darker things did not happen!!!!!!!!!!

 

They did Its just a question of how much!!!!!!!!!! Which the answer to is low!!!!!!!!! So if people do it there is no point getting pissy because at then end of the day they are desperate pilots and that tactic will never really work in the long run!!!!!!!!

 

So bacially if you get vutlced take it on the chin, know u are a better pilot, and just get on with it because in the long run you will be much more successful 

[KoN_]

Stats should be Based on team efforts or battles won by sides on servers  . And you could have a personal stat page for yourself as in a web browser if that's your thing.

At the end of the day , to play this Sim you have to log in via the internet , so there is your personal stats page . 

That's if it can be done like BF3 i guess .

Stats just bring out the animal in people .

Even tonight i was on my final leg for a landing , flaps down waiting for the 109 to take off and BANG ..!!! a Yak took me out . God knows what the AAA guys were doing , Tea break i guess .

Was i angry "Yes. I must need help .

have a good weekend all .

[Sokol1]

If it really pisses you off that much maybe it's you here who should consider therapy. i just dont get it, if your pilot gets killed then so what? its just a game.stakes.

 

The people complaining about parachute shoot is because stats, this moaning became in il-2'46. Is fun shoot at then and see their K/D fall like a stone. 

 

If not for shoot things - any virtual thing - I don't play that games. 

[Cybermat47]

C) What do you gain by vulching defenseless aircraft, your ego?

 

I wouldn't exactly call an aircraft with ammunition in it's guns defenseless.

 

The fact is that a plane on the ground is like a player performing an assassination in Halo. Yeah, they aren't much of a threat to you at the moment, but they will be pretty soon.

 

And a tank will never get airborne to pose a threat to aircraft, and doesn't always have flak defending it on the ground, meaning that players should be criticised even more if they kill a tank with a plane, but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

 

And as I said, I limit myself when I vulch. I never vulch the same player twice in an attack, and I only ever vulch frontline airfields. Not all vulchers are going to do nothing but kill the same guy over and over again (and that sort of thing strikes me as just causing trouble).

Edited December 4, 2015 by Cybermat47

[Wulf]

The people complaining about parachute shoot is because stats, this moaning became in il-2'46. Is fun shoot at then and see their K/D fall like a stone. 

 

 

 

If you ever took the time to look at my "stats" you'd quickly come to understand just how foolish that statement really is.

[Cybermat47]

If you ever took the time to look at my "stats" you'd quickly come to understand just how foolish that statement really is.

Okay, so you have good stats. People shooting your chute shouldn't bother you then. They're not killing defenseless people, they're causing a 3D model to execute a programmed animation.

[Alkyan]

I heard the me262's pilots shoot down by p52 while landing started a whining thread at the 39-45 forum as well

 

Come on, you even got a radar, how hard is it to check that in final if you are too lazy to just check your six !

 

And blaming the stats doesn't make sense either, as the stats put a stress on survival. From my experience when you are dragged near enemy airfield you are soon toasted.

And even world war 2 pilots had a stat system that I'm sure encouraged reckless and stupid behavior at some point.

[KoN_]

I heard the me262's pilots shoot down by p52 while landing started a whining thread at the 39-45 forum as well

 

Come on, you even got a radar, how hard is it to check that in final if you are too lazy to just check your six !

 

And blaming the stats doesn't make sense either, as the stats put a stress on survival. From my experience when you are dragged near enemy airfield you are soon toasted.

And even world war 2 pilots had a stat system that I'm sure encouraged reckless and stupid behavior at some point.

@ lazy.

[Stiffmeister]

Read the responses....is painting a very sad picture.

 

Disconnecting to avoid losses..acceptable

Constant spawn raping....acceptable

 

You'd be banned from servers most genre...especially FPS's.

 

The people justifying it here to the OP,are very sad lowbobs....zero integrity.

 

If spawn raping is the norm, it tells me the Devs need to put mannable/auto AA down....are they dedi servers ? it doesn't sound like it.