What tank would you like to see next?

[Finkeren]

I wonder if all the people clamoring for the Tiger I are prepared for the drawbacks that come with it? The 5 km/h slog going up a steep slope and the full minute it takes to traverse the turret 360 degrees. A T-34 at close range can litterally run circles around a Tiger to keep out of its field of fire.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Finkeren

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I wonder if all the people clamoring for the Tiger I are prepared for the drawbacks that come with it? The 5 km/h slog going up a steep slope and the full minute it takes to traverse the turret 360 degrees. A T-34 at close range can litterally run circles around a Tiger to keep out of its field of fire.

 

I don't understand it either.

 

Sure, the "legendary" German armor is cool and all but people really want Tiger I's over the Panzer IV's and StuG's?

[Matt]

Actually, the Tiger was not really less maneuverable or worse performing than a Panzer III or IV on open terrain or road. Turret traverse could depend on engine speed (depending on Tiger variant) and could be as fast as 12°/s, but you're usually better off just turning the tank itself, especially if an enemy tank is driving circles around you, so that you can present the strongest armored part to the enemy.

 

I would definately prefer a Tiger to a StuG, unless we would get a real commander view. Don't really want to have my view locked to forward view only, without any way of knowing what's going on around me, except by opening the hatch. But a Panzer IV would be the best next step.

[Brogan1]

For the USSR, it would be interesting to see either the M3 Stuart or the M3 Lee. Both were fielded in the battle of Stalingrad, as detailed below:

http://www.o5m6.de/m3a1_InCombat.html

 

The KV-1 and the T-60 or T-70 would be fun too.

 

For the Germans, Panzer IV Ausf F2/G. Hands down. They could go with like an Ausf F series, staring with the F1, and mods turn it into the F2, with an L/43 gun, and appliqué armor would bring it up to G standard, and then there would be a mod to change the gun to an L/48, since there were late production Ausf Gs that fought in Stalingrad. The StuG III Ausf E and F (or G depending on documents) are also a must. Also Panzer II Ausf F would be a lot of fun.

 

PS, first post on the forums. Just got the game today! Loving it! :D

Am I the only one who spent their first 2 hours of gameplay just gawking at the planes' startup sequences?

Edited December 27, 2015 by Brogan1

[AcidBath]

I was rather bummed out when I saw driveable tanks in this sim.  I'm quite happy to see tanks in their varied and realistic manifestations (AI tanks, that is) on the ground acting as a tank should, especially when I'm well equipped for a ground attack.  For anyone who is interested in tank-quake, there is always World of Tanks.  I just hope the devs don't start to blur the distinction.  As for those looking for hardcore, this looks promising (though not WW2): http://store.steampowered.com/app/286280/

 

Anyone remember T34 vs Tiger or Steel Fury?

Edited December 31, 2015 by AcidBath

[migmadmarine]

Still love Steel Fury, would love to have a new sim like that. But I still think that the pairings that RO2 released were right, Panzer IV F2 against T-34 1942, and Panzer III L against T-70, so perhaps we should get the Panzer IV F2 and T-70 next. (do we even have the T-70 in this sim at the moment? Know I've seen T-34 STZs, KV-1 and BT-7)

[Cybermat47]

For the USSR, it would be interesting to see either the M3 Stuart or the M3 Lee. Both were fielded in the battle of Stalingrad, as detailed below:http://www.o5m6.de/m3a1_InCombat.html

The KV-1 and the T-60 or T-70 would be fun too.

For the Germans, Panzer IV Ausf F2/G. Hands down. They could go with like an Ausf F series, staring with the F1, and mods turn it into the F2, with an L/43 gun, and appliqué armor would bring it up to G standard, and then there would be a mod to change the gun to an L/48, since there were late production Ausf Gs that fought in Stalingrad. The StuG III Ausf E and F (or G depending on documents) are also a must. Also Panzer II Ausf F would be a lot of fun.

PS, first post on the forums. Just got the game today! Loving it! :D

Am I the only one who spent their first 2 hours of gameplay just gawking at the planes' startup sequences?

Glad to have you with us mate

[Dakpilot]

Still love Steel Fury, would love to have a new sim like that. But I still think that the pairings that RO2 released were right, Panzer IV F2 against T-34 1942, and Panzer III L against T-70, so perhaps we should get the Panzer IV F2 and T-70 next. (do we even have the T-70 in this sim at the moment? Know I've seen T-34 STZs, KV-1 and BT-7)

 

While I fully agree that the T-34 is a tough match for the Pz IIIL, although this is rather historical, "matching" it with the T-70 (is in game as AI) which is a two man light (9 tons) tank would not be a very happy affair 

 

Stug III F with L43 gun would be a good (historic) addition to the German side and add an interesting dynamic to gameplay

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Brogan1]

One thing though, if we include the forces attempting to relieve the trapped forces in Stalingrad, the Tiger could be added. Would be pretty OP all things considered, but just food for thought.

[LukeFF]

One thing though, if we include the forces attempting to relieve the trapped forces in Stalingrad, the Tiger could be added. Would be pretty OP all things considered, but just food for thought.

 

Say what? There were no Tigers at Stalingrad. Sorry, but your sources are erroneous. 

[Gunsmith86]

The Tigers were outside the Stalingrad pocket. They arrived at the front on 7. January 1943 and were assigned to the 17. tank division. The first fight of 2/ s.PzAbt 502 was on 8. January 1943 near Osserkij. They destroyed 2 tanks and 8 guns on that day whitout losses. They were later assigned to the s.Pz Abt 503 which was new. They fighted in that area till the 17. January.

[Monostripezebra]

With the given planeset, some lend-lease hardware would be good dual-use for a possible North Africa Theater expansion. I could see that as a kind of logical step

[Brogan1]

The Tigers were outside the Stalingrad pocket. They arrived at the front on 7. January 1943 and were assigned to the 17. tank division. The first fight of 2/ s.PzAbt 502 was on 8. January 1943 near Osserkij. They destroyed 2 tanks and 8 guns on that day whitout losses. They were later assigned to the s.Pz Abt 503 which was new. They fighted in that area till the 17. January.

Thank you.

[DB605]

I wonder if all the people clamoring for the Tiger I are prepared for the drawbacks that come with it? The 5 km/h slog going up a steep slope and the full minute it takes to traverse the turret 360 degrees. A T-34 at close range can litterally run circles around a Tiger to keep out of its field of fire.

 

Sorry but you are mixing myths and facts there. Only very first of Tigers had that slow traverse turrets. From spring 1943 traverse speed became dependant to engine and 360 degrees take around 40 sec.

In fact Tiger was very manouverable for it's size and it could rotate hull 360 degrees while standing still so any T34 running circles around it is going to die very fast. And it was mere 3km/h slower than Pz III/IV for example.

[LukeFF]

In fact Tiger was very maneuverable for its size and it could rotate hull 360 degrees while standing still so any T34 running circles around it is going to die very fast.

 

...if its transmission didn't blow out in the process. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by LukeFF

[Gunsmith86]

...if its transmission didn't blow out in the process.

 

The transmission of the Tiger was more reliable than most people think and the one of the T34 by far not as good as many would expect it to be.

 

General reliability:

The T-34's wide track and good suspension gave it excellent cross-country performance. Early in the tank's life, however, this advantage was greatly reduced by the numerous teething troubles the design displayed: a long road trip could be a lethal exercise for a T-34 tank at the start of the war. When in June 1941, the 8th Mechanised Corps of D.I. Ryabyshev marched towards Dubno, the corps lost half of its vehicles. A.V. Bodnar, who was in combat in 1941-42, recalled:

 

From the point of view of operating them, the German armoured machines were almost perfect, they broke down less often. For the Germans, covering 200 km was nothing, but with T-34s something would have been lost, something would have broken down. The technological equipment of their machines was better, the combat gear was worse.

 

The tracks of early models were the most frequently repaired part. A.V. Maryevski later remembered:

 

The caterpillars used to break apart even without bullet or shell hits. When earth got stuck between the road wheels, the caterpillar, especially during a turn – strained to such an extent that the pins and tracks themselves couldn't hold out.

 

The USSR donated two combat-used Model 1941 T-34s to the United States for testing purposes in late 1942. The examinations, performed at the Aberdeen Proving Ground, highlighted these early faults, which were in turn acknowledged in a 1942 Soviet report on the results of the testing:

 

The Christie's suspension was tested long time ago by the Americans, and unconditionally rejected. On our tanks, as a result of the poor steel on the springs, it very quickly [unclear word] and as a result clearance is noticeably reduced. The deficiencies in our tracks from their viewpoint results from the lightness of their construction. They can easily be damaged by small-calibre and mortar rounds. The pins are extremely poorly tempered and made of a poor steel. As a result, they quickly wear and the track often breaks.

 

Testing at Aberdeen also revealed that engines could grind to a halt from dust and sand ingestion, as the original "Pomon" air filter was almost totally ineffective and had insufficient air-inflow capacity, starving the combustion chambers of oxygen, lowering compression, and thereby restricting the engine from operating at full capacity. The air filter issue was later remedied by the addition of "Cyclone" filters on the Model 1943, and even more efficient "Multi-Cyclone" filters on the T-34-85.

The testing at Aberdeen revealed other problems as well. The turret drive also suffered from poor reliability. The use of poorly machined, low quality steel side friction clutches and the T-34's outdated and poorly manufactured transmission meant frequent mechanical failure occurred and that they "create an inhuman harshness for the driver". A lack of properly installed and shielded radios – if they existed at all – restricted their operational range to under 16 km (9.9 mi).

 

Judging by samples, Russians when producing tanks pay little attention to careful machining or the finishing and technology of small parts and components, which leads to the loss of the advantage what would otherwise accrue from what on the whole are well designed tanks. Despite the advantages of the use of diesel, the good contours of the tanks, thick armor, good and reliable armaments, the successful design of the tracks etc., Russian tanks are significantly inferior to American tanks in their simplicity of driving, manoeuvrability, the strength of firing (reference to muzzle velocity), speed, the reliability of mechanical construction and the ease of keeping them running^.

 

 

 T-34 there are some pictures that show T-34 carrying a hole spare gearbox on there back. 

 

 

 

Most Tiger transmission brock down if you turned on the spot or if you were towing another Tiger or Panther this often lead to damge which made it necessary to repair both tanks. Because of that it was only permitted to do these things on the battlefield when no other option is left. For turning there is a minimum curve radius for certain speeds if you dont turn thighter than that your transmission would hold very long.

[Gunsmith86]

Tiger:

 

Mobility and reliability:

 

The tank's weight significantly limited its use of bridges. For this reason, the Tiger was built with water tight hatches and a snorkel device that allowed it to ford water obstacles four metres deep. The tank's weight also made driving through buildings risky, as the presence of a cellar could result in a sudden drop. Another weakness was the slow traverse of the hydraulically operated turret. Due to reliability problems with the Maybach HL 210 TRM P45, which was delivered within the first production batch of 250 Tigers, performance for its maximum power output at high gear ratio could not be fulfilled. Though the Maybach engines had a maximum of 3,000 rpm, crews were told in the Tigerfibel not to exceed 2,600 rpm. The engine limitation was alleviated only by the adoption of the Maybach HL 230. A British Army test report showed that the turret on the Tiger E tank turned 360 degrees in 19 seconds with its power traverse system set at high ratio and with the engine speed at 2000 revolutions per minute (rpm). The turret could also be traversed manually, but this option was rarely used, except for very small adjustments.

Early Tigers had a top speed of about 45 kilometres per hour (28 mph) over optimal terrain. This was not recommended for normal operation, and was discouraged in training. An engine governor was subsequently installed, capping the engine at 2,600 rpm and the Tiger's maximum speed to about 38 kilometres per hour (24 mph). However, medium tanks of the time, such as the Sherman or T-34, had on average a top speed of about 45 kilometres per hour (28 mph). Thus, despite the Tiger being nearly twice as heavy, its speed was comparatively respectable.

With the tank's very wide tracks, a design feature borrowed from the Soviet T-34, the Tiger had a lower ground pressure than many smaller tanks, such as the M4 Sherman.

 

Tiger tanks needed a high degree of support. It required two or sometimes three of the standard German Sd.Kfz. 9 Famo heavy recovery half-track tractors to tow it. Tiger crews often resorted to using another Tiger to tow the damaged vehicle, but this was not recommended as it often caused overheating and engine breakdown. The low-mounted sprocket limited the obstacle clearance height. The tracks also had a tendency to override the rear sprocket, resulting in immobilisation. If a track overrode and jammed, two Tigers were normally needed to tow the tank. The jammed track was also a big problem itself, since due to high tension, it was often impossible to split the track by removing the track pins. The track sometimes had to be blown apart with a small explosive charge.

The average reliability of the Tiger tank in the second half of 1943 was similar to that of the Panther, 36 percent, compared to the 48 percent of the Panzer IV and the 65 percent of the StuG III. From May 1944 to March 1945, the reliability of the Tiger tank was as good as the Panzer IV. With an average of 70 percent, the Tiger's operational availability on the Western Front, was better than compared to 62 percent of Panther's. On the Eastern Front, 65 percent of Tiger's being operationally available, compared to the 71 percent of Panzer IV's and 65 percent of Panther's.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[LukeFF]

 

 

Most Tiger transmission brock down if you turned on the spot or if you were towing another Tiger or Panther this often lead to damge which made it necessary to repair both tanks. Because of that it was only permitted to do these things on the battlefield when no other option is left.

 

Aye, that is what I was getting at.  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I can only imagine how long the training briefings were on the 'do not under any circumstances' list. Thanks for the extensive info

[DB605]

...if its transmission didn't blow out in the process. 

I don't think blowing the transmission was the main thing to worry as Tigers were able to do pivot turn in neutral, bigger problem was probably the possibility to thrown or even breaking the track.

Here's nice video of Tiger 2 performing it:

 

https://youtu.be/M0v2Ufac9tA

[Gunsmith86]

Some people believe that it would have been better for the germans to produce more tanks like the Pz IV in place of the 1347 costly Tigers. But if one looks at the numbers of tanks that were destroyed by these few tanks ( for every Tiger in the westfront about 10 allied tanks and for every Tiger on the east front about 18 tanks! ) than german would have had to build about 6.000-9000 tanks and provide crews and petrol for them which they could have hardly managed. From the material used for one Tiger you could at best build three other tanks which would sum to about 4041 tanks and for most of them there would have been no crews.

 

If we look on the numbers that were usable they were even as reliable as the Panzer IV and these despite they were used constantly at the points of the front were fighting was heaviest.

 

From May 1944 to March 1945, the reliability of the Tiger tank was as good as the Panzer IV. With an average of 70 percent in the west

and just a little behind the Panzer IV in the east with 65 percent of Tiger's being operationally available, compared to the 71 percent of Panzer IV's and 65 percent of Panther's.

These even at a time were the allied forces had clearly an advantage in numbers and air superiority.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[Xenunjeon88]

I brush aside all your puny suggestions and demand 777 to put the totally real and historical and not at all from the fictional Red Alert series X-66 mammoth Tank in the game!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf2__3XOBdo

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Xenunjeon88

[WokeUpDead]

I'd prefer to see a light, fast scout tank that can still pack enough punch to destroy ground targets, rather than a big slow heavy tank that takes forever to get anywhere.  On the Soviet side I think the BT series of tanks are ideal; they served throughout the war and carried everything from 23mm Vya auto-cannons (same as on the LaGG or IL2), up to potent 76mm howitzers.

Edited January 17, 2016 by WokeUpDead

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Given the numbers, the BT-7 would be perfect for that. If coordinating (even without TS), one can do a lot of damage by sending the T-34s head-on while flanking with the BT-7. I would shiver every time I heard an engine in these light tanks though

[Porkins]

I wanna live the StuG life.