109 and 110 drop tanks.

[viperrm64]

Hi Devs and all,

 

Will you possibly at some time in the future be adding droptanks to certain aircraft such as P-40, 109's and the 110 as they all carried them at some stage or another during this historic period, sorry if this post in the wrong place.

 

Rob.

 

P.S. Love the new maps and 109E7 and 110E2, THANK YOU.

[Finkeren]

It's historically accurate, and they were used extensively, though I don't remember ever seeing Soviet P-40s using drop tanks.

 

Still: I'm not sure if it would be worth it, since missions on our relatively small maps never really involve distances long enough to warrant the use of drop tanks.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Han said that maybe/probably in the future. Indeed most of the missions and maps here don't warrant hailing a tank around. Historically speaking were tanks a common sight on the EFront except for ferrying aircraft hack and forth?

[viperrm64]

Yeah Finkeren your right I forgot Soviet P-40E's probably didn't carry drop tanks but 109's and 110's certainly did and Lucas although I see what you mean about not really needing them you could still jettison them where necessary. I think it would be a nice little addition especially as a skinner I find lots of 109's, 190's and 110 profiles where they are carrying drop tanks but it is only a very, very small niggle.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Hans mentioned in the FAQ it maybe possible down the road.

[viperrm64]

Don't get me wrong this sim is truly awesome especially with the new maps and tanks and planes, but it's the little things that I think they are gonna have to start to look at soon but it's no problem I can wait after all they have their hands full getting BOM ready for now I guess.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

They don't have the technology right now but said they might do it eventually.

 

I don't think it's high on their list of things to do at the moment though.

[Finkeren]

Also: To be quite honest, I do see a potential exploit for drop tanks, especially for fighters. Imagine you bring a full drop tank and maybe 20% fuel in your internal tanks. The drop tank might allow you to patrol for a long time looking for a target, and then as soon as you spot an enemy, you lose the tank and voilá: You are now a super-light, agile fighter with only 20% fuel.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Also: To be quite honest, I do see a potential exploit for drop tanks, especially for fighters. Imagine you bring a full drop tank and maybe 20% fuel in your internal tanks. The drop tank might allow you to patrol for a long time looking for a target, and then as soon as you spot an enemy, you lose the tank and voilá: You are now a super-light, agile fighter with only 20% fuel.

 

I don't know the details but I imagine fuel is pumped from the drop tanks to the tanks replacing the fuel that is being used by the engine, when empty the externals are dropped leaving full tanks. I think that's how it was in the original IL-2 and I would be surprised if external tank fuel can go direct to the engines.

[Finkeren]

I don't know the details but I imagine fuel is pumped from the drop tanks to the tanks replacing the fuel that is being used by the engine, when empty the externals are dropped leaving full tanks. I think that's how it was in the original IL-2 and I would be surprised if external tank fuel can go direct to the engines.

Are you sure about this? I admit I know next to nothing about aviation fuel systems, but at face value what you describe seems like an unnecessarilly complex system. You'd basically need two fuel pumps, one feeding the engine from the internal tanks and another feeding the tank that's currently feeding the engine from the drop tank at the same rate. That second pump would then need a system to switch between feeding the different internal tanks, depending of which is currently feeding the engine.

 

I think it would be much easier to simply install and extra fuel line directly to the pump to allow the pilot to select to draw from the drop tank directly via the fuel selector.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Are you sure about this? I admit I know next to nothing about aviation fuel systems, but at face value what you describe seems like an unnecessarilly complex system. You'd basically need two fuel pumps, one feeding the engine from the internal tanks and another feeding the tank that's currently feeding the engine from the drop tank at the same rate. That second pump would then need a system to switch between feeding the different internal tanks, depending of which is currently feeding the engine.

 

I think it would be much easier to simply install and extra fuel line directly to the pump to allow the pilot to select to draw from the drop tank directly via the fuel selector.

 

I'm probably wrong, and haven't a clue, it's not something I know anything about. But if you're right what you describe as an exploit could have been used in the real world?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

As far as I know most aircraft old and new can draw fuel from any tank available by using the fuel tank selector switch.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell

[DD_Arthur]

I don't know the details but I imagine fuel is pumped from the drop tanks to the tanks replacing the fuel that is being used by the engine, when empty the externals are dropped leaving full tanks. I think that's how it was in the original IL-2 and I would be surprised if external tank fuel can go direct to the engines.

 

Thats not how it works in real life.  There is a fuel selector switch.  For take off and initial climb out the internal tanks would be selected and then switched to external tanks soon after to empty them first.

 

I can't see a situation in real life where this might have been used to give a tactical advantage - fighters have too short a range generally on internal fuel - but was certainly used in original IL2.

 

 The P51 on the War Clouds server is the best example.  With a full fuel load Oleg's pony was in fact a bit of a dog but with 20% fuel selected, along with drop tanks, you could take off and spend the fifteen to twenty minute climb out to the combat area on drop tanks. Upon sighting the enemy you'd drop the tanks and have thirty minutes to run rings around the D9's until bingo fuel and a shallow dive for home.

 

Was that an exploit?  Well I never saw anyone complain about it as everyone did it.  It dosen't seem any more of an exploit than what we have now.  How many people take to the air with 100% fuel on a dogfight server? 

 

I'd like to see drop tanks eventually but as this would require coding time I understand patience is going to be required.

Edited November 29, 2015 by DD_Arthur

[Sokol1]

 

 

 I think that's how it was in the original IL-2 and I would be surprised if external tank fuel can go direct to the engines.

 

 

IL-2'46 don't model the external tanks usage correctly, you can't determine for the engine get fuel from then first, they only increase the fuel quantity. They are more "cosmetic". 

 

Add external fuel tanks in BoS without correct fuel management is pointless, and this thing is a bit complicate in Bf 110 (look at CloD).

 

Wiki say that Bf 109 G-6 range is: 850 km (528 mi) 1,000 km (621 mi) with droptank.

 

Even the first range is most than sufficient in BoS map size.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Sokol1

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Also: To be quite honest, I do see a potential exploit for drop tanks, especially for fighters. Imagine you bring a full drop tank and maybe 20% fuel in your internal tanks. The drop tank might allow you to patrol for a long time looking for a target, and then as soon as you spot an enemy, you lose the tank and voilá: You are now a super-light, agile fighter with only 20% fuel.

This is exactly how I hunted in the old '46 DF servers when lone wolfing it on pacific maps!

Edited November 29, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Yogiflight]

Wiki says the range of G6 is 560km without and 850km with external tank.

[Finkeren]

I'm probably wrong, and haven't a clue, it's not something I know anything about. But if you're right what you describe as an exploit could have been used in the real world?

It certainly could have. The question is: Was it ever?

 

Just to be clear: I myself am not particularly concerned about potential exploits. I really don't mind if some people choose to fly the Yak flaps-down or deliberately let their canopy get ripped off by opening it at ful speed in the Macchi to improve FoV.

 

Still, I think such an exploit could well be The Yaks Flaps Part 2, where people complain and argue to no end.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

While I have no sources, I don't think it was used in WW2 as an exploit the way most people are planning to.

 

My reasoning is that no sane commander would allow their aircraft to go out with only a quarter of the internal tanks filled just to be all speedy during eventual dogfights. The risk of them getting tangled up and having half your aircraft crash land over enemy territory doesn't sound worth it, not to mention that the logistics and production officers in the high command would not approve of wasting so many resources just so that a fighter squadron drops 1 tank per aircraft in 70% of all sorties.

 

These are guesses, of course.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Lucas,

 

Drop tanks were never used as an exploit, as described, IRL that I have ever read or heard about.

[69th_chuter]

The 109 fuel tank line in the cockpit (with the sight glass) transfers fuel from the drop tank to the main tank by bleed pressure from the supercharger.  The engine is fed by one or both of two engine driven fuel pumps (fwd and aft pickup points) from the main tank ->only<- (the fuel pump selector switch is just like a mag switch).  It would be pointless to take off with partial main tank and a drop tank as fuel transfer would begin by takeoff and likely completed before any advantage could be gained by this configuration.  That's RL.  In 1946 people partial loaded and drop-tanked all the time.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/kurfurst/index.php?PAGEN_1=3

 

 

With the 109 the fuel from the drop tank is pumped into the main tank as the main tank empties.

 

You can't exploit it by taking only 100l of fuel + droptank since the fuel in the droptank would just drain into the main tank making a full 400l of fuel. You might as well not take a drop tank.

[PatrickAWlson]

I have read that IRL the P51 was not a good performer with the center tank full.  The plane was unstable until some/most of this was burned off.  P51 pilots would burn that off first, then switch to drop tanks, then use the wing tanks for the rest.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Interesting information. I think the P-51 can afford to do that though, it's range with tanks is upwards of 2.500km (for reference the Bf-109 with tanks will have its engine cut out after only 1.000km, doing 800km without tanks - number similar to most of its Soviet counterparts). That being said, the long haul high altitude operations P-51 pilots had to go through were vastly different from the tactical tit-for-tat in the Eastern Front.

 

Soviet fighter pilots, according to Ivan Lukich Zvyagin (43 IAP), always flew with tanks full even if it made the aircraft heavier. I presume the busy environment made it wiser to be a little heavier but have enough fuel to fight whomever tries to cut off your way to and from the target than be nimble and then run empty halfway home after a busy sortie.

 

In Soviet aircraft, the major regular users of drop tanks were the Navy fighter squadrons who had to escort their bombers far out at sea, where crash landing meant drowning, freezing or both. This need warranted the development of the Yak-9D (and subsequent extra-long range DD) variant which had their range extended above 1.700km if I remember correctly.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I have read that IRL the P51 was not a good performer with the center tank full. The plane was unstable until some/most of this was burned off. P51 pilots would burn that off first, then switch to drop tanks, then use the wing tanks for the rest.

This is correct. Maneuvering was strictly prohibited until this fuel was burned off due to the effect on CG.

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

I'm sure that this is very doable for the developers. I hope that drop tanks do come to the game, along with re-arm and re-fueling. Would make this game 100X better if that's even possible....

Edited December 1, 2015 by 4./JG53_Badger