indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) In 1977, this practice was finally codified in Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions: Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent. Edited November 28, 2015 by indiaciki 2
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 What if you just really don't like his face? Is it OK then? 3
senseispcc Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) In WW2 this did not exist and so was never applied by any nation(s) of the conflict. It depended entirely from the pilots morals and “état d’esprit” when faced with such a situation. In every nation there where cases where it happened and other where it did not, Winston Churchill was in favor of it! In the game, this being a game, I am against it because it is against “fair play” as is in many multiplayer games the fact of “fulture-ing” circling the enemy airfield to pick taking off airplanes for an easy victory. But let every one be free of his choises?! Edited November 28, 2015 by senseispcc
indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Then it's a crime of war war and you should be prosecuted by a cort of law or hunt down by a intelligence agency and dealt with accordingly and slowly :D What if you just really don't like his face? Is it OK then? Then it's a crime of war and you should be prosecuted by a court of law or hunt down by a intelligence agency and dealt with accordingly and slowly :D I guess you remember Mogadishu where dead US Black Hawk pilots were dragged through the the streets? I won't post barbarism of any kind. You can look it up for yourself. In WW2 this did not exist and so was never applied by any nation(s) of the conflict. It depended entirely from the pilots morals and “état d’esprit” when faced in such a situation. In every nation there where cases where it happened and other where it did not, Winston Churchill was in favor of it! In the game, this being a game, I am against it because it is against “fair play” as is in multiplayer games the fact of “fulture-ing” circling the enemy airfield to pick taking off airplanes for an easy victory. But let every one be free of his choises?! It happened for real 3 days ago to a russian SU-24 shot down by "allies" and killed by groups supported by those same "allies". Edited November 28, 2015 by indiaciki 2
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 What happened 3 days ago was brutal, unnecessary and by all means a war crime. I feel terrible for him and his family and friends. Don't forget that on that same day a rescue helicopter was shot at on the ground when there was no indication of hostile action from that team, as evidenced in multiple videos. But anyhow, here we are bordering on politics so I'll leave it at my deepest condolences and respect to the brave pilot and marine, and their loved ones. 7
Cybermat47 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Well, that's 1977, and this game is about battles in 1941-43. Unless you just wanted to talk about the recent incident, in which case this isn't the proper forum section for that, and I believe that there's a rule against posting that sort of thing anywhere on this forum.
Original_Uwe Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Don't see the application to BoS&M Edited November 28, 2015 by forsale
Sokol1 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 North Korea don't sight this Geneva Convention, I will play under his flag. 1
indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 It's about pilots. Killing pilots on parachutes. That was a topic i WWII. I'd like to talk about the recent events but I won't. there's people more competatnt than me who will talk about the recent events. Going back to "Gaming" although everybody considers themseves "pilots" until it get serious - then it's "gaming" of course... 1
indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) 1941 germans pilots shot at least 6 yugoslav fighter pilots on parachutes. 06.04.1941. That's BOS /BOM relevant. On topic if you don't like recent events that are post 1977. I'm sick of this. . Edited November 28, 2015 by indiaciki 1
indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) North Korea don't sight this Geneva Convention, I will play under his flag. reciprocity I'd like to see the blood pressure of 300 pilots locked on by a S400 just for the fun of it Edited November 28, 2015 by indiaciki 1
Cybermat47 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 1941 germans pilots shot at least 6 yugoslav fighter pilots on parachutes. 06.04.1941. That's BOS /BOM relevant. Okay. But it's a well known fact that chute shooting happened in WWII, and it's unimportant in a video game, so I'm afraid I don't see the point of this topic.
Finkeren Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Is it really necessary to have this discussion again? I'm not aware, that this is much of an issue among players in this sim. People are happy enough getting a kill, they don't seem to particularly care about ruining the other guys kill/death ratio. I think I've maybe been shot down in my chute twice by other players over the past couple of years. Hardly an issue. The AI is a different story though: Sometimes, the AAA just seems to go agressively after anything labeled as enemy team. Just in the last couple of days, I've been shot in my parachute by AAA maybe a handful of times on the official expert tank server.
indiaciki Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) It is. Do you shoot downed pilots? I never will. I never would in RL (I have my father's military flight rules -1972 - YU Air Force manual) . No matter what. Is's about ethics. I don't play games with animals.I was killed once after crash landing in ROF. I would have broke that guys jaw if he was near me. Slavoj Zizek once told: people who behave in the virtual world unethicaly are unethical, though they behave normally i RL simply because of the fear of sanctions. They basically are psychopaths who are cowards. That's why civil wars or the absence of sanctions produce monsters. They are monstars all along just too afraid to act it out except in virtual situations under the disguise of anonimity. Edited November 28, 2015 by indiaciki
216th_Peterla Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 What happened 3 days ago was brutal, unnecessary and by all means a war crime. I feel terrible for him and his family and friends. Don't forget that on that same day a rescue helicopter was shot at on the ground when there was no indication of hostile action from that team, as evidenced in multiple videos. But anyhow, here we are bordering on politics so I'll leave it at my deepest condolences and respect to the brave pilot and marine, and their loved ones. Totally agree. I will not go for a political discussion but right now I feel nausea for such a terrible action committed by an "Allied" country. My deepest condolences and full support for the Russian military in his fight against the terrorists. 3
FuriousMeow Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I was killed once after crash landing in ROF. I would have broke that guys jaw if he was near me. What? Are you of sound mind? 2
Feathered_IV Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 In 1977, this practice was finally codified in Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions: Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent. I wonder if that courtesy is only intended to be afforded to first-world combatants. I can't imagine our present adversaries being given quarter if they were bailing out or on a ladder or whatever.
Wulf Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) I totally agree with Indiaciki. Furthermore, in addition to the reasons already mentioned I'd also just point out that chute shooting leads to 'disorder' in games like BoS. Once people introduce this sort of crap (and it's happened to me several times already) then anything and everything becomes acceptable. You want to ram people on take off, fine why not? You want to shoot an irritating team mate, go for it - who gives a monkey's, just do as you feel. Well, in my opinion that sort of behaviour just ruins games like this. We all know that all sorts of revolting behaviour goes on when ostensibly civilized nations go to war. That doesn't mean we have to ape that sort of stupidity online. This is a game not some sort of war of annihilation so grow up and fly respectfully or learn to live with the consequences. Edited November 28, 2015 by Wulf
Sunde Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (It is. Do you shoot downed pilots? I never will. I never would in RL) I'd like to point out that this is a game, not real life. People (at least most of them) come on here to have fun, if some dimwit gets a boner from shooting at my parachute, in all honesty let him. I'll respawn (as this is a game) And move on. (so grow up and fly respectfully or learn to live with the consequences.) Out of curiosity, what would the consequences be?
Wulf Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) I'd like to point out that this is a game, not real life. People (at least most of them) come on here to have fun, if some dimwit gets a boner from shooting at my parachute, in all honesty let him. I'll respawn (as this is a game) And move on. Out of curiosity, what would the consequences be? I've already pointed out the potential consequences. Disorder and unpleasantness online. So, if it's okay to shoot chutes it's also okay to call someone who does it a f#####g c##t. I mean, people do it in RL so why not? Edited November 28, 2015 by Wulf
Trooper117 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Dowding was having dinner with Churchill one evening during the Battle of Britain... this was his opinion on the matter. After dinner, they discussed the topic about the morality of shooting parachuting Luftwaffe pilots. Dowding suggested that German pilots were perfectly entitled to shoot RAF pilots parachuting over Britain as they were still potential combatants (i.e., going back to a new aircraft to conduct another military mission) while RAF pilots should refrain from firing at German pilots as they were out of combat and would eventually become prisoners of war once they landed on British soil. Edited November 28, 2015 by Trooper117
Sturmalex Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) like jeez chill bruh it's just a game you shouldnt care about the stats that much ^this On the topic: 1. I dont really care for my k/d 2. Who cares anyways? Its not like the game uninstalls itself after being killed in the game. If you die or not - next mission you get a fresh plane and a fresh pilot, sooo where is trhe problem? I genuinely do not get it. Edited November 28, 2015 by SteinerGER
Feathered_IV Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Anyone who would inflict real world violence on somebody, just over what happens in a video game...
Sunde Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Anyone who would inflict real world violence on somebody, just over what happens in a video game... Needs to stop playing video games - (finished that one for you)
Cybermat47 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Slavoj Zizek once told: people who behave in the virtual world unethicaly are unethical, though they behave normally i RL simply because of the fear of sanctions. They basically are psychopaths who are cowards. That's why civil wars or the absence of sanctions produce monsters. They are monstars all along just too afraid to act it out except in virtual situations under the disguise of anonimity. By that logic, you would be a psycopath. You're playing a game where you shoot at people, and you're playing the game for fun. This isn't an actual war, there's no greater good, we're all just playing this for fun. And by your logic, that means that everyone playing this game wants to shoot people. And all this after you say... I was killed once after crash landing in ROF. I would have broke that guys jaw if he was near me. Really? You would inflict serious bodily harm on someone because of what they did in a video game? Do you really care more about the animation performed by a 3D model and some text more than you do about the wellbeing of actual flesh-and-blood Human beings, who are sentient and concious? Really? I've been in situations where I felt like hurting people. Never because of a video game. Edited November 28, 2015 by Cybermat47
TWC_Ace Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) It is. Do you shoot downed pilots? I never will. I never would in RL (I have my father's military flight rules -1972 - YU Air Force manual) . No matter what. Is's about ethics. I don't play games with animals.I was killed once after crash landing in ROF. I would have broke that guys jaw if he was near me. Slavoj Zizek once told: people who behave in the virtual world unethicaly are unethical, though they behave normally i RL simply because of the fear of sanctions. They basically are psychopaths who are cowards. That's why civil wars or the absence of sanctions produce monsters. They are monstars all along just too afraid to act it out except in virtual situations under the disguise of anonimity. I completely agree with your opinion regarding the turko-ru incident when apprently, forces on teh ground fired at parachuting pilot. Then again, as a serb I hope you will be equally cirtical about war crimes your pilots did to civilian populations in croatian cities and villages, in the 90s. vidiš kako to ispadne sada.... Edited November 28, 2015 by blackram 1
6./ZG26_Emil Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 No one shoots down aircraft for minor infringements like this. That Su-24 was maybe in Turkish airspace for a few seconds and by all accounts the F-16 was probably in Syria when it fired it's missile (leak to reuters from US source). It amazes me that people just take the rubbish in the newspapers at face value but as they say "he who lies first wins". There's more to this incident that a simple airspace violation it's a geopolitical bowl of spaghetti with every major power's fingers in the pie. You could write a book on this subject. ISIS oil was being sold in Turkey and when those tankers and refineries got hit by the RAF as did the terrorists being funded by Turkey and western countries (TOW missile used to shoot a Russian chopper on the ground) the Turks seemed to have hit back in a planned ambush. Everyone has their finger in this pie, everyone has their own strategic interests and it's all being played out like a giant chess game. Interesting stuff and I guess this topic will be locked soon 3
Fortis_Leader Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 So this is just an attempt to start a political fight thread then? What happened in Turkey and Syria recently is something I doubt anyone finds good. The situation was very tense regarding planes flying across or close to the border, as evidenced by the shooting down of a Turkish RF-4 a few years ago, and a Syrian MiG-23 shortly after, and now the Russian Su-24. What followed was quite frankly not very surprising; The Geneva Conventions have not been respected by the domestic combatants of the Syrian civil war since the day it began, attacking parachuting pilots is not new. This time it happened to an foreign pilot, which is why it's been payed such attention. Now, despite my love for debating politics and global conflicts, this is a topic that has absolutely no place on this forum and I doubt anyone's main interest here are such. Sincerely take it somewhere else, I don't understand why you should think this forum the right place for it. 7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban. 1
Cybermat47 Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Now, despite my love for debating politics and global conflicts, this is a topic that has absolutely no place on this forum and I doubt anyone's main interest here are such. Sincerely take it somewhere else, I don't understand why you should think this forum the right place for it. Thank you
6./ZG26_Emil Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) Well, it wasnt the first time russian military plane had violated nato countrys airspace. Keep doing that for long enough and eventually ur gonna run out of luck. that su-24 even received 10 warnings in like 5 mins. And how do you even know this....because of what the newspapers say? Well they've never lied or been used for political reasons in the past have they P.s did you know Turkey has violated Greek airspace several thousand times over the last few years? and visa versa....no one got shot down over that because everyone knows how this is done. P.s have you seen the leaked cable to the UN? that Su-24 was maybe in that airspace for a maximum of 17 seconds and probably far less if at all....how do you warn someone 10 times in that amount of time? The whole thing stinks to high heaven and I would recommend you read my original post again because this is not an isolated incident and as I said everyone has an interest and you cannot trust simple media reports right now because they're going to report each government's narative. So if Turkey has been buying ISIS oil and we know for a fact that they and the west have supported Islamist groups in Syria who are the bad guys here? It's Libya all over again and as usual civilians are getting killed in their thousands for geopolitics.... Edited November 29, 2015 by 6./ZG26_Emil 2
indiaciki Posted November 29, 2015 Author Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I completely agree with your opinion regarding the turko-ru incident when apprently, forces on teh ground fired at parachuting pilot. Then again, as a serb I hope you will be equally cirtical about war crimes your pilots did to civilian populations in croatian cities and villages, in the 90s. vidiš kako to ispadne sada.... ratni zlocini su zlocini koji ne zastarevaju. postoje sudovi i oni se ne mogu pravdati. Ali ovi moroni koji ovde pravdaju ubijanje pilota...jbt muka od njihove maloumnosti. satro igrica itd. debili. Edited November 29, 2015 by indiaciki
Wulf Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Well, it wasnt the first time russian military plane had violated nato countrys airspace. Keep doing that for long enough and eventually ur gonna run out of luck. that su-24 even received 10 warnings in like 5 mins. Well, fancy that. Saburo hasn't actually mentioned it here, for reasons of his own I guess, but he is one of those players who does indeed shoots-up online players in their chutes. When he did it to me, he said it was because he; "hates Nazis". Interestingly, he didn't think to ask me if I was in fact a Nazi before he did it. I guess he has a 'shoot first and ask questions later' approach to online warfare. Frankly, given what the Soviets did to the Estonian population during the war I'm somewhat surprised at his choice of bedfellows but then hey, I never fail to be surprised by 'neutrals'.
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