Is it me or is the AI actually quite good at defense ...

[Tomsk]

So I've been practicing my gunnery against the AI. The scenario is that I'm in a 109 F4 flying against a Lagg, with a 1000m starting altitude advantage. So I have all the cards on my side, taking a BnZ approach. None the less I've been surprised to find the AI seems to put up a good defense. I can always beat them, but it often takes a long time. Of course it could just be that I suck :-)

 

My experience has been the AI seems to be quite adept at moving to jam up any sub-optimal pass. Meaning that there's a lot of jostling for position to get to a point where I can make a pass with a good chance of landing hits. When I do make a pass the AI is good at turning out of plane at the last moment to complicate the gunnery. The end result is I can keep my advantage indefinitely in the superior plane, but unless I get a lucky pilot kill or a fire, it takes ages to chip enough damage to take them down. Have other people found the same experience?

 

The other thing I've noticed is that the Lagg seems to very good at tanking damage. Once or twice I've made the mistake of ending up in front of the AI's guns and have taken a few hits. This usually made the task a lot harder, the 109 seems to be very fragile to damage. The AI on the other hand seems to be take hit after hit after, the wings virtually shredded, and yet still put up a good defense. It's not been unusual for me to fire in 1 second bursts, get solid hits with every burst I fire, and yet I run out of cannon ammo and the AI is still flying.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Tomsk

[Y-29.Silky]

The AI in this game are like DCS; the K-4's you shoot into oblivion, yet still fly like a [Edited]!

They have the perfect bank angle bleeding your energy where your rounds will never hit them, and when you do hit them, they'll just keep trucking along.

If it were anyone of us, besides me of course, they would go down like a sinking pile of sh!t. 

Play on the WoL server, your experiences will become brighter.

 

Fast Fact: Don't bother with the 20mm's. If you use the 7.62(?), you will penetrate their engine to create a coolant/oil leak. From there you can disengage and laugh at him as he tries to chase you with a damaged engine. All in all, the smaller rounds are more effective.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Bearcat
Language

[Trooper117]

Can ever 'sneak' up on an AI aircraft?

If approaching from underneath, supposedly unobserved, do they start taking avoiding action as soon as your gun sight lines up onto a firing solution?

[Cybermat47]

Fast Fact: Don't bother with the 20mm's. If you use the 7.62(?), you will penetrate their engine to create a coolant/oil leak. From there you can disengage and laugh at him as he tries to chase you with a damaged engine. All in all, the smaller rounds are more effective.

Yep, that's a good tactic. I've gotten a lot of kills that way in CloD. The 20mms, even when nose-mounted, are too innaccurate to aim at specific points like the radiators.

 

The Yak-1, MiG-3, LaGG-3, and Il-2 have their water radiators in large boxes on the bottom of the fuselage, so it's a good idea to get slightly below them for an easier shot. And as Silky says, only use your 7.62s, the 20mms will create smoke and vibrations, making it harder to aim. Pe-2 and P-40 radiators are located on the bottom of the engines. La-5s and I-16s don't have water radiators (AFAIK).

 

And if you're playing as the Russians, the the MC.202 has it's radiator on the bottom of the fuselage, the Bf-109 F, and G have their radiators in the middle of both wings, the Bf-109 E, Ju-87, and Bf-110 have theirs on the bottom of both wings, the Ju-88 has radiators around the spinners, the He-111 has radiators on the bottom of the engines, and the Fw-190 has no radiators.

[=38=Tatarenko]

<pedantry>

 

7.92

 

</pedantry>

[Finkeren]

No, the AI in BoS/BoM is nothing like in DCS. The AI in DCS flies a simplified FM, not so in this sim.

 

In terms of flying the machines and fighting in them, the AI is pretty darned good. Less so on a tactical level, where the AI easily becomes stuck during missions, fail to attack ground targets and make rather horrible decissions.

[SharpeXB]

Right. The AI in this game are better than in other games, since they use the same FM and DM

 

They can't see you through clouds or darkness but they are hard to sneak up on, I've managed to bounce them when they're fixated on a target.

 

I do notice them using some pretty good defensive maneuvers like scissors, breaks etc. BoS improved their behavior compared to RoF.

[BraveSirRobin]

The AI cheats.  It will maneuver when you get the AI aircraft in your sights.  That makes it difficult to kill while it still has the energy to maneuver, but easy to cause it to piss away energy (and eventually kill).

[Tomsk]

Yeah I was actually really impressed with how well the AI flew. Every time it seemed to pick the most awkward place to be. Although maybe it could use tuning a bit for difficulty. I found even on Novice it was absolutely capable of putting up an excellent defense including high G turns. What's more it could do this with two wings so full of holes you could make out ground features through them, whilst streaming fuel and coolant from multiple different places, and with all the tail control surfaces chewed to hell. That's a hell of a lot more than I could do! :-)

Edited November 23, 2015 by Tomsk

[Yogiflight]

Especially Peshkas and Sturmoviks are a problem in my opinion. I don´t know when I was able to attack one of them in a normal attack. It is allways the same, when I am near enough to attack they go into turns like fighters, even if they still have their bombload under the wings.

[EAF_51_FOX]

Old debate this.. remember me times of old il2 1946....  It's a pity that 777 developers just don't care to change A.I. behaviour since il2-1946. I invite them gave a  look at Battle of Britain II A.I. codes instead: the smart and balanced and no-cheat A.I.I've ever found in any Flight sim I've played since 2000.

Edited November 23, 2015 by EAF_51Raptor

[Finkeren]

Old debate this.. remember me times of old il2 1946.... It's a pity that 777 developers just don't care to change A.I. behaviour since il2-1946. I invite them gave a look at Battle of Britain II A.I. codes instead: the smart and balanced and no-cheat A.I.I've ever found in any Flight sim I've played since 2000.

Utter nonsense.

 

(Except for the part about BoB II AI, that was a good AI, particularly from a tactical perspective)

[CheeseGromit]

I'm starting to get a bit frustrating with the AI and its love for flying in circles. I have no idea how it qualifies as a defensive tactic but it makes for repetitive and uninteresting combat.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The new 1946 AI is an interesting beast, particularly when it comes to wingman tactics. After all these years, the wingmen you take on a mission on SP are actually extremely useful and can effectively cover your ass, shoot stuff down on their own without being stupid and clear your tail if you're engaged.

 

A very memorable moment happened in Rata_Az's beautiful "Airacobras Over Donbass" 16 GIAP P-39 campaign for example: after blocking a German airfield by strafing whatever moved while the Peshkas were bombing Lugansk (*cough* Smolensk), my four-ship formed up parade-style, finger four with two to my left, and flew over the runway, north towards the bombers. At this precise moment, unknown to us, a Bf-109G took off behind our backs - imagine my surprise when I saw the bullets passing by my cockpit! I cursed the wingmen of course: three of you and you let the bastard engage me! I'm dead!

 

Then this happens: element leader number three sees the tracers, he and number four bank left, the German overshoots and in the very first second the 109 passes him to close up on me he turns in again and zaps him with a 37mm round! It was one thrilling three-second interaction. Immediately after that the formation is back and we head to our Peshkas. Some good fun

[Trooper117]

The fun police will turn up shortly...

[Wulf]

So I've been practicing my gunnery against the AI. The scenario is that I'm in a 109 F4 flying against a Lagg, with a 1000m starting altitude advantage. So I have all the cards on my side, taking a BnZ approach. None the less I've been surprised to find the AI seems to put up a good defense. I can always beat them, but it often takes a long time. Of course it could just be that I suck :-)

 

My experience has been the AI seems to be quite adept at moving to jam up any sub-optimal pass. Meaning that there's a lot of jostling for position to get to a point where I can make a pass with a good chance of landing hits. When I do make a pass the AI is good at turning out of plane at the last moment to complicate the gunnery. The end result is I can keep my advantage indefinitely in the superior plane, but unless I get a lucky pilot kill or a fire, it takes ages to chip enough damage to take them down. Have other people found the same experience?

 

The other thing I've noticed is that the Lagg seems to very good at tanking damage. Once or twice I've made the mistake of ending up in front of the AI's guns and have taken a few hits. This usually made the task a lot harder, the 109 seems to be very fragile to damage. The AI on the other hand seems to be take hit after hit after, the wings virtually shredded, and yet still put up a good defense. It's not been unusual for me to fire in 1 second bursts, get solid hits with every burst I fire, and yet I run out of cannon ammo and the AI is still flying.

 

 

When taking on an 'aware' enemy, in the one-on-one scenario you describe, just accept that in most instances you're probably going to have to wear your enemy down before you'll be in a position to get a killing shot.  If the bad guy is good and in a high energy state, in most instances, you're going to have to manage your attacking passes in such a way that you increasingly force him onto the defensive so he gets lower and slower with every pass.  This reduces his energy and limits his ability for defensive maneuvering.  Eventually, if you manage your energy appropriately, he will present a relatively easy target, at some point, but this may take 5 minutes or more.  If you can, try and coordinate your attacks in order to catch him at the top of his climb either in a vertical or horizontal maneuver.  Above all, be patient.

 

Also, despite what some may tell you, forget about trying to hit specific components on the enemy's aircraft (radiators, the ammo boxes, the pilot's head, the dashboard clock etc).  This is just fanciful thinking.   Just concentrate on landing some 'solid hits' when the opportunity presents. Until that happens, conserve your ammo.  Again, be patient, maintain your energy advantage and don't try and force things or you may end up on your arse.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Wulf