Brano Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 You can't practice tactics of 43 in 41.It's highly unrealistic.As VVS pilot you are supposed to enter karusel,pray and wait for the result 2
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Well, using a lower flying pair as bait and having the other pair fly top cover is an old tactic. You just need to double it, work out the spacing and you're kind of there. I remember reading many moons ago that Sasha didn't create the formation, but he perfected it and fielded it with great success. If that doesn't suffice as an excuse, then I suppose I will have to convince Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd to go on Teamspeak and say they came from the future to share fighter tactics with us poor VVS pilots
bzc3lk Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 .As VVS pilot you are supposed to enter karusel,pray and wait for the result
Brano Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Soviet pilots called it like that.Just another name for defensive circle.It was common practice for ishak and tschayka pilots untill more sophisticated tactics came to use in late 42 (flying in pairs) and vertical layout (Kubanskaya etazherka) in early 43
707shap_Srbin Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Aleksandr Pokrishkin (3 x Hero of Soviet Union, 46 kills, + 6 shared) about Bf 110 from ZG 1 (from his book “Find yourself in battle”): “We flew to our next base, Rostov, in group of 6 Yak 1, & leader was squadronleader A.Kamosa. I was his wingman. On course, we spoted 20 enemy planes from W. They coming > (I dunno, how it ‘ll be in english “lokomotive station”) Lichovskoj. I moved in front of our formation, & made our group know of cons by moving of wings (rolling) – (note: in middle 1942 there are no radio in russian fighters) & moved to enemy. After closing, I recognized them as “Bf 110”, JaBo’s. It has heavy firepower in its nose. We’ve met them at onse W of Voroshilovgrad. Going in head-on against Bf 110 not good idea. I started 2 climb. But 5 rest Yak’s goes in HO with group of all 20 Bf 110. It was tactical mistake of sqleader. Bf 110’s drop theyr bombs, made “close formation” & meet our fighters by many bursts of deadly fire, making them (Yak’s) going away & down. After that Bf 110 made “defend circle” 2 avoid our further attacks. Using my altitude, I attacked a few times. I waited, that Kamosa’s group will climb & attack from above, but they leave the combat in dive & hi speed. Bf 110 saw, that they are under attack by only one fighter, in they turn, started hard attack me, I saw many bursts around my plane. I decieded leave them. At moment, I dived & go > my base.” Litvin, Georgi Afanasjevich, airgunner. How many time enemy attacked our airfield – I donnt know, although I was there during all over the day. I couldn’t hang up my head. I saw only black clouds of smoke, rising up to sky from time to time. Only tanks could burn like that. I think, that enemy didn’t spotted our perfectly hidden airplanes, & bombed all our area, without any aiming. There is no chanse to take off, because germans in a literal sense hang over the field, & if any one just hang up from his shelter – in same moment they open dreadly fire. One of Bf 110’s dived on low altitude & started shooting at corn haycock from guns & cannons. Why he did that – I don’t know, may be just for conscience` sake. But suddenly, our airplane, hidden under haycock exploded, & german pilot in same moment, while circulling over airfield, call for support. & soon started deadly lowaltitude attack. All our airplanes were destroyed, every single one! What could we do? Despairingly, we shooted at germans from our rifles – but, of course, with no any effect. It was so shameful, humiliating to just lie & bury our fases in ground, when enemy aviation punched us! About Bf 110 actions of SKG 210 in “Battle of Moskow”. Archipenko F.F., > 30 airkills, 467 combat missions, 102 aerial combats. “ In december 1941 we flew on cover missions of cavalery of general Belov. Germans used Bf 110. The weather was damn bad. “Messer” flew low over heads of cavalery & shot – horse kicked to one side, horsman – another. I saw this terrible picture by my eyes. Cant forget this blood.” II/SKG 210 actions near Tula in Battle of Moskow 1941. “29 october 423th IAP moved from Myaskovo airfield to Volyntzevo (both near Tula). Group of Bf 110s caought MiG’s over field, & enter furball (!!!). Jr.leutnants V.Dovgiy, A.Denisenko & N.Zabolotny were shot down & killed. It was thought, that eatch of them shot down a Bf 110, but germans confirm only one Bf 110 (II/SKG 210) was shot there. 4 more MiG’s was heavy damaged & ditched…” ZG 1 actions, narrated by Evgeny Ezgov being in hospital, 4th ShAP, Caucass battle, 1942. “I’ve lost my group, and 2 Bf 110 suddenly shot me. Stick of control was unusefull, my IL 2 is uncontrolled now. I can control my plane only using throttle, & I feel my plane flyies like on waves. Then they attack again – I feel explosions in my plane, (I dunno what does this part of wing in english – center of wing just near fuselage – in russian called “centroplane”) was terrible smashed, & my oiltank burns. I was thinked – “THIS IS THE END OF MINE!” Suddenly our flacks started shooting at them, & Bf 110 go (this maneuver in russian called “candle” – full throttle & vertical up – note that Bf 110 can do this). My alt – 20 meters, & motor started troubeling. There was a river ahead me. “I can do it!” – I was thinked. But suddenly my engine died. I put my hands on control panel & ditched… After I came out my plane, I amaized - tail of my IL 2 was on one side of river, but Nose & cockpit with me – on this side. Soon solders came, & said – that coast of river mined with ANTYTANK MINES. “ SKG 210 blocking airbases of MiG’s during Batlle of Moskow, 1941. This was in middle august 1941. At evening, he (lt. Kuryshev, MiG 3 pilot) after end of combat mission, was going to land. But radio officer sayd: “Wait, there is Bf 110 over field.” It was JaBo. In cloak of darkness, he hunted for landing planes. Fuel was low, & he deisided flew another field to land – our field. When he came over field, he asked highlight the landing field. Radio answered: “We cant, Bf 110 blocked field. Be carefull!” Then he ditched near… About Bf 110 actions of ZG 1, Vasiliy Emelyanenko, 6 airkills, > 20 tanks, ~ 150 combat missions, 4th ShAP, Kavkass battle, 1942. …I saw german plane. Thought its “Messerschmitt 110”. Its bad idea to joke with it – its very turnable plane, & has many heavy guns… “If he enter the fight with us, we could not strike our target – station…” And most important: A part of “…report...”, according Bf 110’s actions. Sry for mistakes, my english is nit perfect… “ ………Report of Bryansk front……………. When it’s a low cloud weather, germans using Bf 110’s for patrooling, & they shot our bombers using guns & cannons. Bf 110 usually attacking from 6’oclock, from tail & from the side. One part of Bf 110’s draw away our escort fighters, another part – attacking bombers. At last period Bf 110 usually flying at low altitude, hiding in relief. They use sun & clowds for hidding with great exellence. During patrolling Bf 110’s attacking our planes, if they have majority in number or our planes have no escourt. In favourable conditions germans attacking in pairs, & third plane observes the aircombat. Sometime took plase attaks from 2 directions in one time – from up-behind & below – behind direction. Pilots of Bf 110’s are mostly highscilled. In aerial combats they use all maneuvres of high pilotage. In each attacking moment they are able to open fire from any guns (nose or gunner). Aerial combat with Bf 110 is possible using any methods, in case of situation. Most convenient attack is from ¾ (back-side) direction. Alone-flying JaBo’s are not covered with fighters. In october & november almost all fighters were attracted to patroling missions, to cover columns of german forses on directions: Sevsk – Orel; Karachev – Orel; Orel – Tula. At same time fighters were attracted to cover big sityes – Orel, Mtzensk, Plavsk, Schekino, Kosaya Gora, & others. Tipe of fighters – Bf 109 & Bf 110. From december Bf 109 are very rare on front. Bf 110 are playing the main role in combat operations. On novermber & especially on december Luftwaffe deeply bring down theyr activity, & only with the beginning of retreating from Tula direction suddenly appeared near 25 Bf 110’s, which aggressive covering retreatment of theyr ground units. On september there were spotted 689 sortyes of enemy, on 389, on november – 307, & on december – 241. At all – 1626, with average 14 per day. From the december the Bf 110 is the most spotted enemy plane. It seems that Bf 110 is the best german airctaft, witch could fly in a cold & bad weather. From 1 december 1941 on the Bryansk front the most spotted plane is Bf 110, & theyr unit based in Naryshkino. Enemy pilots act with bravery & scill only in majority in number or if they sure, that will be no heavy groundfire. Usually they avoid aerialcombats. & only at last time there are some cases, when Bf 110 enter aerial combat, because of significance of cover retreating Guderian’s forses. 23 dec 1941 a group of 6 Il-2 “sturmovik’s”, under command of Starshi Lejtenant Sychenko, on the way of combat mission, saw a group of Bf 110’s, attacking our groundforses. Sychenko desided to attack them. One of Bf 110’s was shot down, other – retreating. …………… “ Seems that Bf 110 witch was shot down was this (according SKG 210 losslist): 23-12-41 , Ofw. Ernst Scherer (P), Ofw. Martin Theilmann (Bf) – MiA both. Bf 110 E-2, 6./SKG 210, S9+DP, W.Nr. 4001, Crash-landed in no-mans land. Crew seen to leave aircraft and head south-west. Kozelsk, south-east of Sukhinichi. 1
Cybermat47 Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 tomorrow? I certainly hope so. Gimme those reloadable MG/FF Ms
6./ZG26_McKvack Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 I often hear "defence circle". Can someone give a detailed explenation please
6./ZG26_Gielow Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 I often hear "defence circle". Can someone give a detailed explenation please https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufbery_circle
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) A scheme depicting what it is, how to fall into the trap and also how to beat it: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28166112/images/1383891144436.jpg It's also most popularly known as the Lufbery circle, you can find some info and background to it using that name. EDIT: A second too slow, Gielow's link covers it well. Edited November 23, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell
[CPT]milopugdog Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 The best thing about each Monday is the hope for an update that same week ;-) C'mon 110, tanks, fixes (and ok mice too :-P )! I usually expect the updates to come in on Tuesday or Wednesday. It'd be nice on a Monday though
I./JG1_Baron Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Tommorow? Lol friend i dont think so ...but i hope that you are right Edited November 23, 2015 by II./JG1_Baron
6./ZG26_Custard Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 but i hope that you are right Fingers crossed
Trooper117 Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 why not? Reverse psychology... c'mon mate, you have to keep up! 1
Finkeren Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Working a 24 hour shift on Thursday, so that seems like a likely candidate.
Skoop Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Whut? 24 hours? Isn't that against law? Not if they give you time to sleep, even better if your sleeping on the clock.
Feathered_IV Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I used to have a job in architecture ( bloody hate architects, I only worked for them) where a series of thirty hour shifts without sleep was not at all uncommon at the end of a contract to meet deadlines. The longest I ever had to work without sleep was 53 hours, but by that stage your ability to work and function further is measured in minutes. I had that job for 6 years. Edited November 23, 2015 by Feathered_IV
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Try working in the oil energy industry
6./ZG26_Emil Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Try working in the oil energy industry Talk to me baby :D You in gas? If your selling wind turbines or solar farms I'm sending my attack Labrador round to get you
Asgar Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Reverse psychology... c'mon mate, you have to keep up! ok in that case: I don't think it will be released tomorrow either
6./ZG26_Emil Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 ok in that case: I don't think it will be released tomorrow either It will happen.....in God (777) we trust
Finkeren Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Imposible! I'm not working today, so it can't be today.
Finkeren Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Bingo: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19485-master-server-maintenance-november-24th/ 1
Feathered_IV Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Sweet! I just got my internet connection sorted too. After seven years of 270kb downloads on a good day, I'm now getting 1.8mb. Might call it a day and head home now
LLv24_Zami Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Nice! But my work shift starts exactly 12.00 GMT so testing have to wait.
Finkeren Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Sweet! I just got my internet connection sorted too. After seven years of 270kb downloads on a good day, I'm now getting 1.8mb. Might call it a day and head home now Awesome! Happy for ya. Australia is only a decade behind the rest af the world now
Trooper117 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I'm sending my attack Labrador round to get you Is that a four engined Labrador? 1
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