Bf110 this week?

[Yogiflight]

BTW, I don´t think, there ever was seen a Bf 110 E2 near Stalingrad, because the longer version with lifeboat does not make a great sense for crashlanding in the russian steppe. It was certainly more for northsea or meditaranian sea combat.

[Dutchvdm]

BTW, I don´t think, there ever was seen a Bf 110 E2 near Stalingrad, because the longer version with lifeboat does not make a great sense for crashlanding in the russian steppe. It was certainly more for northsea or meditaranian sea combat.

 

I think the Bf-110's in Stalingrad where probably F models by then, but that doesn't really has anything to do with the lifeboat. I think the E model is a perfect substitute.

 

Grt Martijn  

[Juri_JS]

During the time of Stalingrad ZG 1 operated a mix of C, D, E and F models, which is typical for Zerstörer units. Older models were used alongside newer versions for a long time.

ZG1 also used the E-2 in the Stalingrad area. I am not completely sure, but I think not all E-2s had the longer fuselage. If I am not mistaken I've seen photos of Bf-110E-2 with and without it.

[Klaue]

S! Just waiting on panzerbar .

[Trooper117]

During the time of Stalingrad ZG 1 operated a mix of C, D, E and F models, which is typical for Zerstörer units. Older models were used alongside newer versions for a long time.

ZG1 also used the E-2 in the Stalingrad area. I am not completely sure, but I think not all E-2s had the longer fuselage. If I am not mistaken I've seen photos of Bf-110E-2 with and without it.

 

You are correct, I have the book 'Messerschmitt Bf110, An Illustrated Study (Variants, Weapons and Equipment)' which clearly show the E2 variants without the longer fuselage/lifeboats....

[Asgar]

but...isn't the E-2 without the longer fuselage simply an E-1?

[Yogiflight]

Of course I made a mistake, because it is not Stalingrad, but Moscow. But If there were also E2 with short fuselage, what was the difference to the E1?

But the lifeboat might make sense for the crimea and cuban scenery, for the blacksea, definitely is worth carrying one with you.

[mb339pan]

Did you make this? It's GOLD!

is not my creation, original autor is http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/user/25571-y-29silky/

[Asgar]

Of course I made a mistake, because it is not Stalingrad, but Moscow. But If there were also E2 with short fuselage, what was the difference to the E1?

But the lifeboat might make sense for the crimea and cuban scenery, for the blacksea, definitely is worth carrying one with you.

well..if it's a E-2 with short fuselage, than there is no difference. From all i know the E-2 is simply an E-1 with the longer fuselage. I guess they shortened the fuselage to save weight?

Edited November 18, 2015 by I./JG3_Asgar

[Yogiflight]

I think it is more likely they made the fuselage of the E2 longer for the life boat, for operations above sea. The E1, I think has the normal fuselage, also used in Cäsar versions.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Bf-110 had a lifeboat? 

[Asgar]

the E-2 had, yes

Edited November 18, 2015 by I./JG3_Asgar

[Trooper117]

Some E-2's had lifeboats, there were some that had the standard fuselage too.

[Yogiflight]

But what was then the difference between E1 and E2?

[Asgar]

if there were they must've been field conversions. 

[Matt]

But what was then the difference between E1 and E2?

The E-2 could carry two 500 kg bombs under the fuselage and it was possible to carry external fuel tanks under the wings.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Matt

[Trooper117]

It is known that as variants were produced on the assembly lines, for instance, the E series running alongside the D series, that there was an existing crossover off parts, and it wasn't uncommon to see things common to both variants until existing stocks had run out or had been eventually superseded.

[Sunde]

So you don't care if aircraft on your team can do the same thing as the things you complain about the aircraft on the opposing team being able to do?

 

Basically, because the "UFO Yak" can do these things, that - honestly its just the flaps - the Macchi can do but because you don't "fly" the Macchi it doesn't matter even though it is just as capable with flaps down as the "UFO Yak." But it doesn't matter, because YOU don't "fly" it.

I fly the yak, the 190, the macchi and well, all of the fighters. And have very few issues with any of them performing the way they do, as stated, protect your favorite UFO - i'll fly all of the fighters and enjoy them, if someone presents real evidence that any of these fighters FM's are glitched, i'll expect the devs to fix it. 

But hey, keep saying whatever you were saying. 

[Asgar]

The E-2 could carry two 500 kg bombs under the fuselage and it was possible to carry external fuel tanks under the wings.

so could the E-1

[Juri_JS]

As far as I know the difference between E-1 and E-2 were some changes of the internal equipment.

[Asgar]

to get back to the original topic. anyone think we could see the Bf 110 tomorrow?

[Endy]

to get back to the original topic. anyone think we could see the Bf 110 tomorrow?

 

I've got my fingers crossed.

[Finkeren]

to get back to the original topic. anyone think we could see the Bf 110 tomorrow?

Nah. Don't think so.

 

Next week.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

 

true story

 

 

LMAO !!!!! 

[707shap_Srbin]

Guys:

 

Bf110E-1 was a long range heavy fighter. It had possibility to carry ventral fuel+oil tank (Dackelbauch), and had FUEL LINES FOR IT. 3/5 of E-1's were SUPPOSED to be Zerstorer, 2/5 - to be Schnellkampfer (i.e. fast bombers), without Dackelbauch but with 2 x ETC500 bombracks underbelly. Also, E-1 had underwing ETC50 racks and fuel lines for additional jettisoned 300l tanks.

 

Bf110E-2 was a leongrange Schnellkampfer. Its only option was underbelly ETC500, WITHOUT fuel lines to have underbelly fuel tank. As E-1, it also had wing-mounted ETC50 racks and fuel lines for 300l tanks in wings.

 

In fact, Dackelbauch underbelly tank was used in VERY limited numbers, because Bf110 with that tank cannot take heavy bombs (so it was used in night fighter units only). Almost all Bf110E's had ETC500, and from mid-1941 main job of Bf110 crews was ground pounding till summer 1943, when it was reverted as heavy interceptor.

 

Note: E-1 and E-2 were produced in parallel (E-2 does not succeeded E-1, as it common thought - i.e. not the same case as Fw190A-3 > A-4 > A-5 or Bf109G-2 > G-4 > G-6 e.t.c.)

 

Lifeboat - at the beginning, all Bf110E's had it. But from early 1941, lifeboat was no longer mounted in factories on new aircrafts. At frontline units, lifeboats were removed shortly. Its hard to find a photo of long-tailed Bf110E from mid-1942.

 

DB601N - first E-1's and E-2's, produced in late 1940, had DB601A, because of insufficient numbers of N engines (Bf109F-2 and Bf109E-7/N had priority). But from january 1941, DB601N was installed on factories and retrofitted to "under-repair" aircrafts in frontline units.

 

First batches of Emils had armor, simular to all previous versions (C and D) = NIL. During winter 1941/42, Rustzatsstanden were added, and Bf110E could be fitted up to 180 kg's of armor (and even heavier armor as an assault aircraft).

The E-2 could carry two 500 kg bombs under the fuselage and it was possible to carry external fuel tanks under the wings.

Bf110E-1 and E-2 could carry:

 

Armor:

[Dutchvdm]

Nice info on the E models. In the DD movie of the 110 it looks like where not getting the extra armor protection (No plate behind the pilot). Hope it's and option just like the extra armor on the E7.

 

Grt Martijn

[Matt]

Good info. I was probably mixing up something with the C or D variant or whatever. 

[707shap_Srbin]

Bf110E,F,G. Petrick/Mankau's book.

[Klaue]

S! You the man panzerbar THX for the info.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I just want to know how fast the thing is going to be

[DD_Arthur]

Fast enough to get into trouble but not quite fast enough to get out of trouble?

Edited November 19, 2015 by DD_Arthur

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I can't seem to find a good source, but whatever I stumble on gives most Bf-110 variants in the mid-400km/h range at sea level, into mid-500km/h at altitude. In other words, it falls behind most Soviet fighters except for the I-16, but it's still no slouch. Having a 10-30km/h straight line advantage does not save anyone from that firepower, and I. N. Kozhedub was badly damaged by a Bf-110 in his first sortie, nearly costing his life. To add insult to injury, if the Bf-110 extends in a straight line although most Soviet pilots will catch up eventually there's that tail stinger to make things a little more unpleasant for those trying to get to Vmax.

 

From memory climb rate and general acceleration are its biggest drawbacks though, so one can play on that.

 

Here's a Soviet manual from 1943's take on it:

 

 

Me-110 is a twin-engine fighter with the following characteristics: 525 km/h at 5,000 meters and 495 km/h at 7,000 meters. Climb rate at 3,000 meters is 10.5 meters per second and 8.9 m/second at 5,000 meters.

 

Armor is made of separate plates each 5 to 10 mm thick. Armor placement is shown on the diagram above. Crew is not protected at all from attacks from 10 to 2 o’clock level and high. Armor also does not protect the Me-110 from armor piercing shells and 12.7-caliber ammunition from any angle.

 

Due to very strong armament in the nose, it is recommended that Me-110 be attacked from the aft sector. It should be attacked using the same techniques as a Ju-87 as both planes have similar rear gun placement; however, Me-110 rear machine gun covers significantly more limited area than a Ju-87. Pilots must be very careful not to fly in front of the Me-110 when attacking it from behind, as they will be subjected to very heavy fire from enemy’s machine guns and cannons. Attacks should be completed below the Me-110 and to the side, without flying ahead of it. Frontal attacks on the Me-110 are also not recommended.

 

Me-110 dives rather well and German pilots flying the fighter often dive away from our fighters; that maneuver also allows them to protect their vulnerable belly by flying close to the ground. A cruising Me-110 should be attacked as a bomber, i.e. pairs attacking the gunner followed by the engines.

 

A group of Me-110 has the same protective capabilities as a group of bombers. Fighters engaging the Me-110 should therefore use the bomber attack techniques. However, Me-110s cannot only rely on their rear gunners for protection so they usually attempt to turn and attack with their forward guns as well. An alert pilot in our fighter will always be able to escape such attack however, as Me-110 are not maneuverable and have slow rate of climb. Any attack on a Me-110 should be followed by a climb. When performing attacks from below followed by diving away, pilots should dive to the side and gain altitude as quickly as possible.

 

Me-110s will use the defensive circle when at disadvantage. Attacks from above and inside the circle are difficult due to strong forward fire. However, rockets are very useful against a Me-110 defensive circle. The following tactic can also be utilized: our fighters disengage and extend and then attack again after the enemy is exiting the defensive circle. Me-110s will be in a long trail formation, and rear planes will be very vulnerable.

 

While containing a lot of interesting information, my favourite bit is the defensive circle technique. "Nevermind, just shoot some rockets into it and forget about it."

[-TBC-AeroAce]

defensive circle works for almost any aircraft in any role 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It's an overestimated tactic though, anyone with enough firepower and speed can take a pop and climb unscathed. By entering one you and your whole flight are becoming static targets for opportunistic enemies who know how to shoot from a little further out. As illustrated by Sasha Pokryshkin.

 

 

The Bf-110 is more of a challenge because you have fire coming at you from both sides, so even the small window of opportunity you get can be risky.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

but the point is that there will always be some one looking after ur 6!

 

I get pissy with people i fly with because i say circle right for example.....and they go left, up, down.,,,,,,orginisation is the keybut most dont listen)

[Finkeren]

The defensive circle is rubbish, not because it doesn't work (though often it doesn't) but because it is inherently defensive and makes your flight utterly unable to do anything else, while performing this maneuver. You're unable to attack, unable to move much except a bit up and down and unable to stay in contact with other flights. It can also wreck havoc on your situational awareness if you do it for an extended period of time.

Meanwhile the clock is ticking towards the moment when you absolutely have to head back to base, and you're not accomplishing anything. All the enemy has to do is deploy two fighters above you to keep your flight spinning around, while the other enemies go off to do something else.

 

As a desperate defensive measure a circle might work, but as a general tactic, it's useless.

 

I should clarify: I speak only based on personal experience with this maneuver. Some pilots more talented than me might well have discovered the magic that makes this work, I just can't see it.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Finkeren

[Wulf]

The defensive circle is rubbish, not because it doesn't work (though often it doesn't) but because it is inherently defensive and makes your flight utterly unable to do anything else, while performing this maneuver. You're unable to attack, unable to move much except a bit up and down and unable to stay in contact with other flights. It can also wreck havoc on your situational awareness if you do it for an extended period of time.

Meanwhile the clock is ticking towards the moment when you absolutely have to head back to base, and you're not accomplishing anything. All the enemy has to do is deploy two fighters above you to keep your flight spinning around, while the other enemies go off to do something else.

 

As a desperate defensive measure a circle might work, but as a general tactic, it's useless.

 

I should clarify: I speak only based on personal experience with this maneuver. Some pilots more talented than me might well have discovered the magic that makes this work, I just can't see it.

 

I think you're being too literal as regards the meaning of circle.  If things were kept really rigid then yeah, I think it might well be a death sentence but if the formation was reasonably loose, and speed was kept at the upper end of the range with plenty of distance between the aircraft (both horizontally and vertically), then I think it might be quite a dangerous proposition.  Dropping into the formation would be easy enough but climbing back up again might be a different story.

[Dutchvdm]

I can't seem to find a good source, but whatever I stumble on gives most Bf-110 variants in the mid-400km/h range at sea level, into mid-500km/h at altitude. In other words, it falls behind most Soviet fighters except for the I-16, but it's still no slouch. Having a 10-30km/h straight line advantage does not save anyone from that firepower, and I. N. Kozhedub was badly damaged by a Bf-110 in his first sortie, nearly costing his life. To add insult to injury, if the Bf-110 extends in a straight line although most Soviet pilots will catch up eventually there's that tail stinger to make things a little more unpleasant for those trying to get to Vmax.

 

From memory climb rate and general acceleration are its biggest drawbacks though, so one can play on that.

 

Here's a Soviet manual from 1943's take on it:

 

 

While containing a lot of interesting information, my favourite bit is the defensive circle technique. "Nevermind, just shoot some rockets into it and forget about it."

 

"Me-110 is a twin-engine fighter with the following characteristics: 525 km/h at 5,000 meters and 495 km/h at 7,000 meters. Climb rate at 3,000 meters is 10.5 meters per second and 8.9 m/second at 5,000 meters."

 

Isn't that a bit slow? The older C6 model should do around 560 max. The G2 somewhat less then 600. I would think that the E model is somewhere in between. But i could be wrong. 

 

Climb-rate is not great but comparable to the climb-rate of the P-40.

 

Grt Martijn

[Klaue]

I am sure it will be 19 Noveber.

Look:

-19 november is a day of Artillery in Russia.

-19 november is my Birthday.

- I served in army in Artillery.

- 20 november is 5 years of my wedding.

 

My beloved Bf110 MUST came around that date too

 

S! hope your right. Happy B-Day.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I think it will be next week, but in the meantime Happy Birthday @1./ZG1_Panzerbar.