MC 202 Cockpit / View (Bug ?)

[Trinkof]

Hello !

 

Just a question about the rear vision of the MC202. In oter games the rear vision in the MC 202 allow you to see your tail. (Game I am talking about are not famous for their FM, but the plane modelling is good)

 

 

I was wondering why not in BOS. First I would like to say that my trust was going to BOS developers, for their seriouness

I just checked in the hangar, a rear view of the MC 202, and it pretty clear than from the view and the opening at the back of the canopy, you can even see some gauges of the cockpit, and there is a clear line , opened, between the tail and the cockpit.

 

I would add the angle is even more favorable to check your tail than in a 109 with the headrest, which offer a better rear vision.

 

 

I am pretty sure, it is just a bug or error, related to the position of the head in the cockpit.

 

Could it be possible to look at it, (and change it ! ), because this really changes everything for this plane

 

If a moderator could show this to one of the dev, due to the amont of "conflct" in this section, I am not sure they still read what is posted here (and I understand it completly! )

 

Thank you !

Edited November 8, 2015 by LAL_Trinkof

[Dakpilot]

 

Think it is rather a function of two different games FOV or perspective rather than a 'bug'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Trinkof]

 

202-2.jpg

 

Think it is rather a function of two different games FOV or perspective rather than a 'bug'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Oki, thanks

 

I'll wait to see if someone has data on this, but if not, I'll consider the dev are right !

[3instein]

Someone mentioned something like this a while back, can't find the post though.

 

The way you turn your head in BoS seems like your head just spins on your neck, totally unrealistic, in DCS for example when you look backwards it moves your viewpoint ever so slightly to the left or right, depending what way you turn your head.

 

This gives the benefit of being able to see over your shoulder rather than looking at the middle of the headrest and seems a lot more realistic, to me anyway. 

 

I wouldn't think this would be overly difficult to implement, but hey I'm no game dev.

 

Mick.

[SR-F_Winger]

I think the rear view in the BOS 202 is far too bad. The 2 cuts besides the headrest SHOULD increase rearward visibility. They dont do to a sufficient degree in BOS for some reason.

[Trinkof]

Ok everyone, I found the solution and explanation!

 

The head is way too high in the cockpit : frame of the canopy don't allow to check in the "holes" if head is on top.

 

Currently from the view we have the head of the pilot is almost touching the top of the canopy

 

Why is it too high? Because of the Ironsight! Which is is the current head position an abomination, completely unusable.... Because too low for the head

 

I'll post screenies + real mc202 photographs as soon as I am home after work to make this more clear and add some proofs.

Edited November 9, 2015 by LAL_Trinkof

[SR-F_Winger]

Very good. Possible to make a bugreport about it?

FW Head- and gunsight position was messed up as well after release and got fixed thanks to reports like that.

[Trinkof]

Well mixed findings :

 

-First, in the dark corners of the internet, I've found a topic on Mc 205, saying that the pilots asked for a Rear-view mirror , because visibility in Mc 202 was not that good at back.

 

-2nd, after close and caeful checking, you can actually see our tail while looking back, in BOS (one or two pixels at leats )

 

-3rd : on photos I found, the head seems a bit lower that what we have in game, but not that much : maybe better aligned with the iron sight visor. (in google search, "Macchi 202 pilots" keyword, will find some nice pictures of pilots in cockpit, not linking them here as they are not adding anything to the subject)

 

Conlusion: I probably spoke too quickly. I suspect rear visibility was a little bit better that what we have now in BOS, but not by much. The difference with other "games" might be the result of a different (exessive ?) thickness of the frame of the canopy, causing loose of a few degree of vision, but I will not enter the debate on frame thickness considering the never ending (and sterile) debate it caused for the FW 190 !

 

Many apologies for those who lost time reading me !

 

Salute!

Edited November 9, 2015 by LAL_Trinkof

[Falco_Peregrinus]

I also thought this at the beginning, that the rear-view of the Folgore was in a way better (by just a little) than with what we have in-game.
 

Especially in this shot, you can clearly see that the rear-view was quite good.
The "opening" between the right corner (armored seat) and the canopy frame (left side) is quite large and a pair of eyes could easily (well, it depends how strapped is the pilot..) pop out in that direction:

 

After looking better at various pictures though, I feel that BoM has probably the best C.202 cockpit of all sims. Maybe there are, yes, some degrees of visibility missing compared to what a pilot leaning to the frame could see in real life, but overall I think the 202 is extremely well done, FM, 3d and all.

 

I think its visibility is quite good on its 6, maybe up to 5:30 pm  . 

With a little movement left-right you can clearly see who's behind you. 

 

What it is sometimes (quite) irritating are the two bars running alongside both sides of your head. These are quite thick and can sometimes be a nuisance.
Same can be said about the 11 and 1 o clock bars.

 

Overall, apart from these, while I found myself a little bit "restraint" at the beginning, now I find myself really in tune with it after hours of online flight simmming.

I'd dare to say that its cockpit is maybe the best as far as 3d modeling goes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What would be super, super cool would be a wide-angle rear-view mirror, as these ones installed in the late 202 and 205. 

 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ioshic

[Saurer]

If you look at the last picture I don't think that you would even be able to look as far behind as we can ingame now

[Falco_Peregrinus]

Some more interesting pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here the fairing appears rather slim and seems visibility could be good:

 

 

But I think this could in practice end the discussion: this is really interesting.
After this,  I think that what we have in BoM is very  correct and right.
Not a direct view on your 6, but what we have, more like 5 o clock.

WT seems to have the wrong one, and BoM the correct one.

 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ioshic

[FuriousMeow]

From something with a better FM than the original source, and also better actual 3D modelling than the original source that started this thread. Just because it is pretty doesn't it make it better, and more especially - correct.

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[Trinkof]

From something with a better FM than the original source, and also better actual 3D modelling than the original source that started this thread. Just because it is pretty doesn't it make it better, and more especially - correct.

 

C202_Left_shoulder.jpg

C202_Right_shoulder.jpg

Yep, my feeling too after thinking about it. At first the difference was a little bit shocking, after looking photographs from the period, I figured out that BOS is probably doing it right ... And this does not surprise me!

I should not have doubted in the first place

 

Thanks for sharing the modern photograph, they are very "clear" on the subject!

 

Can a Mod lock the thread please, as this visibility issue is visibly and clearly, from a 5 o'clock perspective, not an issue anymore?

Edited November 11, 2015 by LAL_Trinkof

[Falco_Peregrinus]

I know the topic has almost "extinguished" itself, but I found another famous photo that shows the side openings of the 202.

 

It appears they were correctly shaped and the space to see behind was adequate.

 

[Falco_Peregrinus]

Well, since I was looking for other interesting pictures, I could not restrain myself to post here other interesting ones I found around.

 

It's interesting to take note of the very high quality finishing of the Macchi fighters, their smoothness and flush-riveting everywhere, the absence of bulges or rough finishing.

Even today the planes look more a final product of a quality craftsmanship than a wartime cost and time-saving policy; no wonder it took so long to build a single specimen.

 

 

 

 

 

The following photo is very interesting as the rear-view space can be seen very well with regard to the position of the pilot's head inside the cockpit.

Visibility towards the rear section seems quite good.

 

 

 

 

And, finally, a great picture (I've never seen before) of the restored Macchi 205 that flew during the 80's.
It's really a shame that they decided to not continue to keep it in flying conditions.

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Ioshic

[ER*Wumme]

some actual Pictures from Macchi 202 from october 2015 .perhaps it will help

[Falco_Peregrinus]

Beautiful shots propfan, thank you!

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ioshic