Competitors reactions

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

No that's another one. I was Hackl back in WARBIRDS since 1998 but then changed for hyperlobby when another Hackl came along. I just started using my name.

Oh ok I thought I found a long lost squad mate! The other one was from up North too.

[Mac_Messer]

 WT has it's place.. and consider that WT is still an ongoing WIP so who knows where it will end up.

If I created such a WiP, I`d make sure it stays a WiP.

[Catseye]

Unrealistic MK.Mr.X ???

 

Huh, I asked to be sure. First time I saw some info about this guy in ATAG forum. Guys were whining a lot about skills of this player.

I saw some his video on YT and checked his channel as well.

 

I remember that I flew in few missions on WT with him and against him.

 

He is not arcade , mouse/pad player. Good virtual pilot, probably better than most of the western offline aces...

He is not my friend and I didnt flew against him 1vs1 to check his skills but I know when someone is good.

 

He is one of the old russian players from il2 1946, ADW veteran as we can check it on his channel ( from one of the older seasons of ADW ).

When you play more than 5 years its obvious you can aim&shoot. That guy play probably longer...

 

I dont know why you have problems to him...   Can you explain ?

 

 

Not going to get into details as it doesn't serve to re-hash known issues but let me say this:

 

It is very interesting to note that when TF released the first update and prevented anyone from accessing files through Kegetys and making changes - Mk. Mr. X never showed up again. Never, not once.

 

Can you explain?

 

Edited November 12, 2013 by Catseye

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Not going to get into details as it doesn't serve to re-hash known issues but let me say this:

 

It is very interesting to note that when TF released the first update and prevented anyone from accessing files through Kegetys and making changes - Mk. Mr. X never showed up again. Never, not once.

 

Can you explain?

I also found this little tidbit interesting. Luckily 777 have a good anticheat system in place. But this is not the thread to discuss such things. Edited November 12, 2013 by Hooves

[Blakhart]

Yeah, thx Osprey, I v heard the same story from my polish friends about this guy.

[Zettman]

Anyhow, WT may comprise largely of mouth breathing, mouse aiming "aces", but the guys in FRB have spent money on the hardware. From who I've talked to, a good portion are anxiously awaiting BoS & DCS.

 

Same here, started in Arcade, moved to HB (all with mouse), bought a Thrusmaster Hotas X and tried to move to FRB...failed. Bought Track IR and Rift (sticking with Track IR at the moment) and slowly got my first kills in FRB. Bought a Warthog and Saitek Combat Rudder and 3 x 27" Monitors and are now feeling at home in FRB. I preordered BoS before my Warthog.

 

I hope getting used with this game with only FRB experience won't be as frustrating as some people describe it to be...else I will stick with FRB, we are getting new players all the time that managed to migrate from HB.

 

Zettman

[Sternjaeger]

Blackhart can you please empty your inbox?

[Blakhart]

Done. I forgot I had more than 200 messages

[VA_NAVY]

 Wow you all sure know how to hijack a post. I have played almost all of the CFS over the years and I confess to be playing WT now and enjoying it for what it has to offer. I fly with a large squadron and a very large percentage of them are either here already or will be coming over. The intent of my post was wondering what if anything a certain company would do to keep some of these players. It would have to be a lot, you see there are a lot of good pilots there just waiting for what others have promised and didn't deliver. Yes even the devs of WT have not yet produced what they said WT would be to the Sim crowd, instead catering to the arcade(cash cow) group.

[Catseye]

I also found this little tidbit interesting. Luckily 777 have a good anticheat system in place. But this is not the thread to discuss such things.

Hi Hooves,

It would be nice to have it in place before launch that's for sure.

 

Looking forward to it.

 

 

Cats . . .

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rama

[Marrond]

Blakhart

Honestly nothing unexpected here. I mean I've meet people of his kind everyday on daily basis here (Lodz). We, as a nation, kind of love to argue atleast that's my impression.

 

Wow you all sure know how to hijack a post. I have played almost all of the CFS over the years and I confess to be playing WT now and enjoying it for what it has to offer. I fly with a large squadron and a very large percentage of them are either here already or will be coming over. The intent of my post was wondering what if anything a certain company would do to keep some of these players. It would have to be a lot, you see there are a lot of good pilots there just waiting for what others have promised and didn't deliver. Yes even the devs of WT have not yet produced what they said WT would be to the Sim crowd, instead catering to the arcade(cash cow) group.

Well cattering to cash cash cow is perfectly reasonable in their case - they've got TONS of money from them that they will need to expand on their project (ground forces + ships) which is going to be massive. IF they're willing to finally fix their issues (visibility in FRB, tons of FM issues, objective based maps, etc.) it won't be half bad. Question is if FRB crowd move to BoS they're going to fix it or they're going to get rid of it entirely since they've announced it on PS4. Second question is if they're gonna fix it then what more they will have to offer to appeal to those who have left for the sake of BoS or DCS.

[Sternjaeger]

wow, seems like we opened quite the can of worms... 

 

I didn't really know of Blakhart, but if what's been said is true it's kinda ironic he's been having a go on me on the stuff people blame him for 

 

Again, no hard feelings on my end, he's allegedly a jet pilot, I have a different kind of experience, which I feel is more relevant to the sim, but alas, when it comes to alpha males (and he seems to be quite the archetype) there's not much you can do, as they're their own worst enemies..

 

As  NAVY said we made a helluva mess of this thread though, let's go back to the original, shall we? 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Marrond, as PS4 will be based on PC technology it can run simulators. I recall reading that the architecture of PS3 and XBox360 did not allow simulations to be run. Had to do something with multiple things and calls to the CPU, no IT tech so just saying what I read. I personally think gaming will be simpler now when consoles are based on PC hardware rather than on some odd other system. And on top there are plentiful of controllers that will work on the PS4 for sure, has USB anyway

 

 About competitors. WT can have their ground forces and whatnot, but if the fundamentals of the game are still porked it is still just same old poop in glorious clothing. I quit WT the day I saw their "sources" for..ehum..Russian planes. And their reluctance to fix them in any way even they are out of whack. Can't spoil the domestic market or a poop storm will hit them. Another legacy from original IL-2 WT has no CEM to speak of, simplified slam throttle to 100% and go for ages etc. Even their so called full real is arcade more than sim. My opinion of it.

 

 Cliffs of Dover has CEM and you have to fly by the book to not blow your engine. Sure the limits are a bit too harsh, still a bit on/off style. But this has nothing to do with TF's really good efforts but the coding of the original game. For example now you blow your radiator on a Bf109E instantly when temps go above the treshold. The plane has IRL a relief valve letting out that excess pressure and you can cool down, but not in Cliffs. Once you overheat the game is over and engine dies. TF is propably looking into it, but will see. Maybe the only gripe I have about Cliffs is the porked CEM because of the coding being what it is. But otherwise you really have to use the gauges and stuff to fly. 

 

 DCS. With the upcoming EDGE engine and WW2 module plus 3rd party support it can provide a great platform and expandability. But this all depends on how well ED implements it. It is not just a quick copy/paste but they have to go deep into the code to do this kind of stuff. But nevertheless the potential is there and the simulation part is already way above any other sim, like it or not. You have the workload of a pilot there, not just press one button and go. But not arguing this. Others like it others don't. I personally do like it. WW2 vets had to know their plane even blindfolded where each button or lever was. We have HOTAS sticks to help with this. Should not be too hard to map a few buttons

 

 Aces High 2. I played this one from Beta. It took over WarBirds as it became dated in many ways. Warbirds 3 was a let down. Aces High provides big fights in air, ground and sea. Graphics are a bit dated and age of the game is showing in many areas, but the events that lasted for weeks were top notch bar none. You felt being a part of something big and the work put into creating an event was immense. I wish the new sims could offer this in MP as there are for sure great event makers and planners out there. Otherwise AH is no competition to BoS as it is a monthly fee game.

 

 BoS has the key now to become a new standard. The skill and experience of the devs is not an issue I think, but the resources and money. I hope BoS will take off and start the new IL-2 decade and beyond. They have many things right off the bat already from what has been shown. Eagerly waiting for early access to test it myself.

[=LD=Hethwill]

For example, WT indirect reaction is to grant access to closed Beta of Tanks to players that achieve bombing missions from the 13thNov ( today ) onwards, with X mission each day.

Edited November 13, 2013 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[JG26Hans_J_Marseille]

 Yes even the devs of WT have not yet produced what they said WT would be to the Sim crowd, instead catering to the arcade(cash cow) group.

 

Exactly !!

 

Because of this promise most of us early "founders" of WT or World of Planes as it was called in the early stages, had supported them through Alpha- and early Closed beta Stage with constant feedback, suggestions, Ideas and defended them against attacks !!

 

That all because it was promised to us that this product will be the next shiny star on the sim sky...

 

Sadly this never happened, when the Devs shifted their attention more and more to the arcade crowd and even loosing some of its own people during this process !!! I am speaking about @Trojan who always tried desperately to keep them on the former promised path and wasnt even you there, @Zak, at the beginning as a community leader ??

[Marrond]

Marrond, as PS4 will be based on PC technology it can run simulators. I recall reading that the architecture of PS3 and XBox360 did not allow simulations to be run. Had to do something with multiple things and calls to the CPU, no IT tech so just saying what I read. I personally think gaming will be simpler now when consoles are based on PC hardware rather than on some odd other system. And on top there are plentiful of controllers that will work on the PS4 for sure, has USB anyway

X360 was close to PC, PS3 was PowerPC based mindfck - it was not the problem of architecture but the fact that common flight simulator developers would have to rewrite their engines from scratch which was obviously not an option for such niche market with average revenue. As it is, PS4 as well as Xbox One are both based on custom AMD's APU based on Jaguar design - which more or less means that hardware from your signature crushes it without even trying. One would argue "but look how good console games are looking!" - it's all cheesy. Console games are designed as corridor-on-rails. There are no alternative routes, open spaces (and if there are graphical fidelity dives into oblivion, i.e. GTA IV, V or Skyrim) etc. Now imagine hardware that was designed with corridor games in mind would have to handle realistic simulation of control surfaces (like in X-Plane for example) and air pressure aside from huge detailed maps and graphics fidelity. It's just not possible. Even now such silly looking and infinitely limited corridor shooter on rails like Call of Duty: Ghosts can't manage to run 1080p at 60fps - it looks like crap and there is no AI, physics or balistics at all!

 

On the other hand there will be game ported to PS4 called Planetside 2 (which is gorgeous by the way if one would expect a true successor to BF2/2142) which features quite big maps and handle ~200+ players battles without an issue - but it doesn't incorporate any complicated physics, flight models, ai, ballistics or collisions.

 

Therefore in my opinion we won't see anything much more advanced than WT (which is heading toward PS4 too with crossplay with PC) - there are some hardware limitations that you can't simply jump over without certain sacrifices. Although it would be AWESOME if for example BoS or some of the DCS series reached PS4 (Xbox One not so much because of completely retarded Microsoft's policy about 3rd party controllers... X360 had semi-simulator Forza 2, 3 and 4 which were ruined by the lack of the ability to connect any semi-good hardware while PS3 could flawlessly use DFGT or G25/G27 as well as variety of other controllers in GranTurismo 5) - however I don't see it happening for the previously listed reasons.

[SprechenSieSexy]

I play IL-2 (1946-CloD), RoF and WT.
I don't fly WT on FRB, because of the sickeningly bad flight models on some of the aircraft ("you want to do a shallow turn? Want to drift lazily to the left/right? Too bad! Have a flat-spin!").
Historical battles are for fun, and that's why I play them.

Not everyone can afford a full-on geek kit, and spend five hours every day playing sims.
I have TrackIR 5 and a cheap stick. Spending huge amounts of money on virtual flying seems pointless to me, but some people think it's necessary - I don't like these elitists. The biggest problem in flight simming is accessability, and the more people with tons of kit there are, the less accessible it becomes to new players.
I don't expect the guys high on their own ego to understand, but the more casual simmer will.

There's nothing wrong with spending tons of money on stupid things, just don't be a dick about it.
Now, I will sit back and read comments from the "real" pilots.

[FlatSpinMan]

I think you have perfectly summed up this entire thread with your sentence,

"Don't be a dick about it".

 

I nearly posted those very words in this thread earlier today. This thread has really been an amazing example of "flight-simmer sickness", a syndrome I fear some posters in this thread have contracted terminally.

[Marrond]

Expensive gear is not necessary to play at all but truth is it's just much harder and rough experience without it. Flightsims allways had hard time to get attention of casuals simply because it was really hard to enjoy them and get addicted by trying it out by mouse and a keyboard. As much as cheap stick is enough, although before TrackIR people were using joy-hat to look arround and it was working fine but it's just much enjoyable to actualy focus entirely on aircraft control rather than fight with looking arround at the same time and keep track of your target. 6DOF brings enviromental awareness to whole new level that's impossible to achieve with alternative ways of handling this matter. Thanksfully there are projects like FreeTrack which are quite good replacement for expensive TrackIR as well as few really nice and cheap quality sticks (Thrustmaster T16000 with hall effect just like their Warthog stick, or Defender Cobra M5 which also uses magnetic field which provide pin-point accuracy that analog sticks can only dream about and both are below $50) - what we currently lack are separate cheap quality throttles (well we lack them at all regardless of quality, unless I'm not aware about some products in that matter) and pedals. Pedals can be somewhat DIY project but it would still be nice to have some cheap and solid alternative for Saitek's or CH's products that are heavily overpriced in my opinion.

 

WT so far is the only game in the market that actualy offers wider audience to experience the thrill of dogfighting without any additional costs therefore it grow so popular and it's a good thing. I just wish the learning curve was stable between the modes so people can gradualy get addicted and get better so flightsims could catter much wider audience than usual. As it is right now there are not many players who actualy care to transition from HB to FRB sadly and while I understand issues with FRB and flightmodels it's not the case that's stopping them.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Marrond

[=LD=Hethwill]

Sprechen, the whole point is, you either want a simulation or not. There is not other considerations and even less bringing up whatever money and time individuals want to spend in their simulator game of choice.

 

Accessibility for flight sim is never a problem, therefore we get back to the start, you either WANT and ENJOY a simulator game or you don't. You have enough "wannabe simulators" in the market already.

 

If you cannot and don't want don't bash those that want and can.

[Sternjaeger]

I play IL-2 (1946-CloD), RoF and WT.

I don't fly WT on FRB, because of the sickeningly bad flight models on some of the aircraft ("you want to do a shallow turn? Want to drift lazily to the left/right? Too bad! Have a flat-spin!").

Historical battles are for fun, and that's why I play them.

 

Not everyone can afford a full-on geek kit, and spend five hours every day playing sims.

I have TrackIR 5 and a cheap stick. Spending huge amounts of money on virtual flying seems pointless to me, but some people think it's necessary - I don't like these elitists. The biggest problem in flight simming is accessability, and the more people with tons of kit there are, the less accessible it becomes to new players.

I don't expect the guys high on their own ego to understand, but the more casual simmer will.

 

There's nothing wrong with spending tons of money on stupid things, just don't be a dick about it.

Now, I will sit back and read comments from the "real" pilots.

 

that's exactly the reason why (other than the arcade feel) I don't like WT and similar. They turned a format into a profitable scam where you need to be hooked to it as much as possible to make a difference.

[Mac_Messer]

Not everyone can afford a full-on geek kit, and spend five hours every day playing sims.

I have TrackIR 5 and a cheap stick. Spending huge amounts of money on virtual flying seems pointless to me, but some people think it's necessary - I don't like these elitists. The biggest problem in flight simming is accessability, and the more people with tons of kit there are, the less accessible it becomes to new players.

I don't expect the guys high on their own ego to understand, but the more casual simmer will.

I have a cheap Thrustmaster stick, another TM stick acting as throttle and a separate basic usb numpad to look around yet I drop most TrackIR users like a bad habit. The fancy hardware ain`t gonna help you much if you`re a bad v. pilot.

[SprechenSieSexy]

Sprechen, the whole point is, you either want a simulation or not. There is not other considerations and even less bringing up whatever money and time individuals want to spend in their simulator game of choice.

 

Accessibility for flight sim is never a problem, therefore we get back to the start, you either WANT and ENJOY a simulator game or you don't. You have enough "wannabe simulators" in the market already.

 

If you cannot and don't want don't bash those that want and can.

 

Well, I play plenty of simulators.

If I want to blow stuff up from a steel coffin, I play Steel Beasts.

If I want to shoot stuff down, I jump on CloD or RoF. Those are simulators, no?

 

War Thunder is no less fun, because it's too "arcade". It's a different game completely.

I enjoy both worlds - it doesn't have to be so black and white. The whole point is elitism, also known as community poison.

 

And, yes, accessibility is a major issue. To say that it isn't would be ignoring the problem.

Too many friends have tried RoF or CloD with me, and just quit because they can't keep up with the hardcore simmers' kit, and servers being unfriendly towards new players.

"New Wings" server isn't populated by new players, infact it's just the opposite.

 

I'm quite sure BoS will be a little different. There are so many people from all walks of simming eagerly waiting for this game, many of which come from WT.

Just last night an entire server was talking about BoS!

[Mac_Messer]

I nearly posted those very words in this thread earlier today. This thread has really been an amazing example of "flight-simmer sickness", a syndrome I fear some posters in this thread have contracted terminally.

Well, some people like to be competitive. Live and let live and "don`t be a dick about it".

[FlatSpinMan]

@Sprechen -no you don't. You may have no idea initially what you want. You may be interested in aviation but have never played anything relevant. You might end up buying a full sim, you might end up getting something more simplified, like WT. From that starting point you may move along the incline in whichever way, or, god forbid, you might enjoy parts of both.

 

@Mac - live and let live? Is that why you report so many posts?

[FlatSpinMan]

This thread is doing nothing for this forum.

It's annoying and insulting to potential new members, and also is doing a good job of irritating existing members.

 

Lockng it for now. Other mods may have a different point of view.