Competitors reactions

[Bearcat]

Ya know... You guys are talkin bad 'bout me! :D I'm one of those who basically started with WT. Saw some vids, dusted off my x52 pro & started flying. Beating my face into a wall, trying to compete with mouse aimers in AB (ugh). Eventually felt confident enough to fly in FRB where it's an exercise in frustration chasing grey pixels across the sky. That game got me curious about how things Should act. Started really checking out DCS. Got a better stick & a couple modules. I'm no Ace in the sky, but we all start somewhere. Before this I was heavy into FPS, before that MMORPGs.

 

Anyhow, WT may comprise largely of mouth breathing, mouse aiming "aces", but the guys in FRB have spent money on the hardware. From who I've talked to, a good portion are anxiously awaiting BoS & DCS.

 

It amazes me that so many folks are totally disregarding IL2.. I dunno.. maybe it is just me but I still get a helluva lot of fun from IL2.

 

I'm from wt. And so is a big part of my squadron. So we shouldn't move over? Gosh, to bad we all bought the prem edition. Whoe me.

But yea beat on and insult the new ones is the way to get a growing community.

 

I wouldn't take any of this personal man. Everybody started from somewhere but believe me.. when in Rome you have to play by Roman rules.. I knew guys that came from FA or AH and came over to IL2 and struggled .. and they were good in FA.. and I have seen the reverse.. where guys were crackers in IL2 and went to other products and had to adjust.. Just because a flyer comes from an environment that may be less challenging or less "realistic" does not mean in the least that once they get to that more "realistic" environment they will not adapt. I have yet to fly CoD online and I am certain that when I do I will not be as good as those who have been doing it for a few years just as as good as I was in CFS when I got to IL2 I had to adapt.. and I would adapt to CoD online and that is what everyone who comes here whether it is from WT, IL2, or a FPS will do. Tell ya what though.. I think a lot of CoD & DCS simmers on ego trips will be in for a surprise.. I think that BoS will prove to be challenging enough in it's own right and some of them will come down a peg or two until they adjust. There is lot of chest thumping and smack talking going on all over the place in simming in general and I take it all with a grain of salt because in the end it is all about what you like and how much work you put into being better at it. Where you come from is irellevant.

[Sternjaeger]

why does a thread about updates have to become a battle of egos is beyond me... 

[=LD=Hethwill]

why does a thread about updates have to become a battle of egos is beyond me... 

 

Because an ego is what lies between oneself and evolving.

Pun intended.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Post on all of his videos...Come over to BOS !

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bis18marck70

[[JG2]Phen0m]

The 29 of us coming are in WTs FRB right now, others may follow as it goes live. We promise to learn as much as we can from u guys.  I would not underestimate them, just me. No ones afraid of grandpa.

Edited November 8, 2013 by [JG2]Phen0m

[Marrond]

I have better idea...

I have better idea, since major part of current FRB community are vets from Aces High 2, IL2 1946 and many of them are/were flying in RoF (not sure about CloD since if I could run it properly with decent framerate I wouldn't bother to play WT but who knows). They play it because in comparisment to listed games community is big enough to find populated match right away at any time, and simply because it looks appealing while preserving low requirements. There are very little people who jump into FRB from other game modes and if they do they're ending up as fresh meat cannon fodder so I wouldn't expect many rookies if I were you. If anything some of them will certainly have problems with navigation propably since it's a pain in desert flatlands of snow.

 

If someone says FRB is not FRB at all - despite of some planes currently in game with unfinished flightmodels then there are two options:

1) he didn't play WT (or played it one year ago when it looked completely different)

2) he didn't play IL2 1946

 

There's no other option

 

Truth is if someone can succed in FRB in WT he will aswell in IL2 1946, IL2 CloD and propably upcoming IL2 BoS. These games differ alot in different aspects but principles of aerial combat and general plane behavior is the same (and before you start pulling my words - no I don't say that planes behave the same in these games I say that general way of how they behave is the same, it's obvious that stall characteristics and some later introduced nuances will make it different). You can't say FRB in WT isn't anywhere near simulation since they're literally copying IL2 1946 for the most part as far as I can tell. Sure it's unfinished and require polish but regarding damage model - I finally started to feel that I shoot real ammo, not bloody marshmallows (IL2 1946).

 

 

It's nice that you're high and mighty but get off your high horse and do your research before you start arguing - your info is either outdated or imaginated. Or you simply can't think that some "mmo scrub" can match with your experience since you played CloD for a while?

 

 

I'm from wt. And so is a big part of my squadron. So we shouldn't move over? Gosh, to bad we all bought the prem edition. Whoe me.

But yea beat on and insult the new ones is the way to get a growing community.

Don't worry - they don't know what's comming for them ^_^

 

Post on all of his videos...Come over to BOS !

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bis18marck70

I don't see how youtuber that's dedicated to Arcade and HB (which is basicaly Arcade mouseaim fest without totally screwed up flightmodels) and furthermore is a CASUAL would make anyone jump to BoS if he can't both fly and make anyone to jump FRB. Edited November 8, 2013 by Marrond

[Blakhart]

 

If someone says FRB is not FRB at all - despite of some planes currently in game with unfinished flightmodels then there are two options:

1) he didn't play WT (or played it one year ago when it looked completely different)

2) he didn't play IL2 1946

 

Nope There is other option. You dont know what you are talking about m8.

 

 

principles of aerial combat and general plane behavior is the same

 

Complete bull$h1t.

 

On 1st page I described shortly main differences, so what you can tell about it ?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1915-competitors-reactions/?p=46079

 

 

It's nice that you're high and mighty

Again mistake...

 

Compare to you my friend...eeehhh...no sense,... I have better idea.

 

I`m open for discussion.

I have proposition, lets meet, discuss it & fight in War Thunder my friend

 

I invite all the users from that topic ( & others too ) to LG TS3 tommorow about 17-18.00 GMT

 

LG TS3: 89.171.41.105:9987 pw 1946

 

Really, point to point I will show you bull$h1ts & bugs in this game.

I never start to speak when I dont have enough arguments or knowledge about issue.

I have account on War Thunder with some planes,( because I actually checked that game ).

We can talk in combat , when you can show me how dangerous are WT gamers or you can just fly with me like in aerobatic team (if you loosed all your high pressure ) and I`m gonna be talking.

 

No offence, no irony, simple friendly proposition of solution this problematic situation.

I dont know you, dont talk about you or your skills like you did.

 

 

your info is either outdated or imaginated. Or you simply can't think that some "mmo scrub" can match with your experience since you played CloD for a while?

 

I dont attack you personally like you did.

I just want to open your eyes m8.

 

So what now Young Wolf ?

 

 

p.s.

After all, if someone from forum arrive, we can fly together in il2 or in WT some funny coop mission or just kill each other in common dgf.

Free drinks & hot girls after all.

p.s.2

If you want to use some offence against my person plz do it on priv.

Like I said before I`m still talking badly ONLY about the game.

Edited November 9, 2013 by =LG=Blakhart

[LLv44_Mprhead]

That should be interesting. If you get this done, share the results.

[BeastyBaiter]

I suspect the majority of the FRB community in WT will move to BoS once it is in a playable state unless something major happens there. That said, most of the FRB players there aren't really new. I, for instance, moved to WT from RoF (still play RoF too, just not as often) and began simming back in the days of floppy disks. WT is not realistic but the transition from it to a proper sim is not as great as some here think. It is generally more forgiving but all the elements of air combat are there. And although most in FRB there are old hands like myself, it is bringing in new blood.

 

I have flown with players there who started with a mouse (having never even used a joystick before) move on to using a joystick and eventually pre-order BoS. It does draw interest. Will we be swarmed by new blood from WT? Probably not but I think it will trickle in over time. And perhaps if they get their stuff in order there, some here may continue to play there as well.

Edited November 9, 2013 by =LD=King_Hrothgar

[Marrond]

Just quoting important parts for Blakhart:

Everyone starts somewhere, the odds of WT producing an ace by itself are slim, but that doesn't mean they won't be effective pilots given time to acclimate. Jimmy Hendrix had to learn to play at some point, y'know?

 

By the way hi Creeper, long time no see.

This appeared just recently but still the point is made:

 

That said, most of the FRB players there aren't really new. I, for instance, moved to WT from RoF (still play RoF too, just not as often) and began simming back in the days of floppy disks.(...) WT is not realistic but the transition from it to a proper sim is not as great as some here think. It is generally more forgiving but all the elements of air combat are there. And although most in FRB there are old hands like myself, it is bringing in new blood.

 

Which basicaly repeats what I said in my post - most FRB community isn't new to flightsimming. And as Creeper notice there are very slim chances that WT will produce any worthy competitors to BoS since there's simply no transition for casual playerbase from HB to FRB at all. It just isn't appealing for them and it's perfectly understandable.

 

Nope There is other option. You dont know what you are talking about m8.

 

I'm not here to convince you - it's not my buisness what you want to believe or not.

Complete bull$h1t.On 1st page I described shortly main differences, so what you can tell about it ?
- friendly icons in the game
- icon on the map
- radio comunication which gives you auto-info about position
- "jumping coins" when you hit your enemy... ( epic fall... even now when i see those info +5 exp, +100 exp im smiling... )
- small map
- very easy objectives
- extremly soft targets, you could easily kill a tank when the bomb hit ~ 20-50m area near heavy tank

Plus:
Damage model taken from "Arkanoid"

- they were introduced on demand of community since visibility in WT is so bad it's next to impossible to judge what and who are you dealing with. It will be disabled as soon as they figure out how to remove visibility issue since right now when you look at someone with ground behind him it resembles vomit - and they appear only below 500m.
- the only icon on the map is on fullscreen map and it's your location - there are no enemies nor friendlies shown...
- your position
- what's wrong with them, besides being silly?
- I can agree on that
- especialy since objective-based games are not there yet - who would suppose that placeholders are easy
- that only ensures me that you've played it long ago. It was indeed truth ~6 months ago or so - they've changed that, even despite casual community cryout.

Now please tell me WHICH ONE OF THOSE connects to flying virtual plane? These complaints are mainly attached to "NAVIGATION".

As for damage model - it was already improved few times, it's not perfect but I would call it more enjoyable than IL 1946 - here when you hit 30mm it actualy hurts (do I have to link photos of effects of single 30mm HE bullet?). All I can reffer to as being utterly bad is heavy fighters and bombers durability but I'm only comparing it to IL2 1946.

 

 

 

 

Again mistake... Compare to you my friend...eeehhh...no sense,... I have better idea.

I`m open for discussion.
I have proposition, lets meet, discuss it & fight in War Thunder my friend

I invite all the users from that topic ( & others too ) to LG TS3 tommorow about 17-18.00 GMT

LG TS3: 89.171.41.105:9987 pw 1946

 

I like your idea although I will pass for a few reasons.

First because I'm about far from home and doesn't feel like flying on trackpad. Second because (now I hope this will make you happy) you're propably better dogfighter that I am - I'm only IL2 1946 and DCS player (and RoF a bit but WWI is really not my cup of tea - but I really appreciate 777's work done there). Also as far as I'm aware in any of my post I didn't say "I" (while you're still reffering to yourself). As for TS - I will surely join when BoS launch so you can show me how real aces fly, right now however it's 1:29am.

 

Really, point to point I will show you bull$h1ts in this game.
I never start to speak when I dont have enough arguments or knowledge about issue.
I have account on War Thunder with some planes,( because I actually checked that game ).
We can talk in combat , when you can show me how dangerous are WT gamers or you can just fly with me and I`m gonna be talking.

 

You can make a video so more players will benefit as long as it will be clean and pinpoint real issues. Those listed on the first page are mostly reffering to navigation. Unless there are some hidden ones I've missed?

No offence, no irony, simple friendly proposition of solution this problematic situation.

 

No offence taken, just replying in the same fashion - hope you understand it.

 

I dont know you, dont talk about you or your skills like you did.

 

As far as I'm aware I didn't reffer to your or mine skill in any of my post. Quote it and prove me wrong.

 

I dont attack you personally like you did.

You attacked all WT players, then you explained you don't... and you did it again. Also I don't see there any personal attack - as said above reply was formed in the exact same fashion as your post. Feel attacked? But I didn't attack you - see what I did there? Also it's not reffering to your skill. It's reffering to theirs.

 

I just want to open your eyes m8.

 

I respect your entitlement. No jokes here.

Although I will repeat - major part of FRB community in WT are indeed players who came from other sims waiting for another worthy IL2 to show up (hopefuly BoS will be the one :3). Disregarding these players just because they play WT is beyond any reasoning.

 

edit:

now, fixed - apparently writing without editor goes crazy with multiquotes.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Marrond

[Creepermoss]

In all honesty, WT feels like a "sim as imagined by an arcade pilot", to me. There are too many missing/broken/ignored features that are important to the simulation of flight for me to call it anything more than a game with an enhanced difficulty mode. I know there are some experienced sim pilots over there, but I doubt many of them got their start in WT, odds are they knew what they were doing already and simply altered it to fit WT's goofy flight dynamics.

 

I personally can't wait for BoS, so I can uninstall WT and hopefully unlearn the odd tactics you need to beat some of their badly modeled planes. My bet is we'll see a lot of folks that need to learn proper stall recovery, having never seen one in WT before. And be nice to Hans, he's not a bad guy, he just has a tremendously high opinion of himself   

Edited November 9, 2013 by [JG2]Creepermoss

[thx1138]

why does a thread about updates have to become a battle of egos is beyond me... 

 

 

Look at the leaderboards on ROF...

 

It always boils down to mine is bigger than yours, which proves that except for technology we are not far evolved from our neanderthal ancestors.

 

I'm just an average pilot and a lousy shot in most flight sims, but I have fun and I always will

[Marrond]

I personally can't wait for BoS, so I can uninstall WT and hopefully unlearn the odd tactics you need to beat some of their badly modeled planes.

 

My bet is we'll see a lot of folks that need to learn proper stall recovery, having never seen one in WT before.

 

And be nice to Hans, he's not a bad guy, he just has a tremendously high opinion of himself   

 

And retarded buisness model tied to stupid economics. Got your back on this

 

Oh I'm pretty sure there will be even more of them in general, not only from WT. The best idea of how nasty stalls can become have guys who were choosen by the goddes of rng and played arround in CloD on full realism (I've upgraded PC to i5 2500k, 16GB RAM and 2xHD6970... still can't play it without weird and painful framedrops all the time - lost my hope on this one... rng goddes hates me and she's a b... very bad women)

 

Oh I can see that

[Mac_Messer]

I personally can't wait for BoS, so I can uninstall WT and hopefully unlearn the odd tactics you need to beat some of their badly modeled planes. My bet is we'll see a lot of folks that need to learn proper stall recovery, having never seen one in WT before. And be nice to Hans, he's not a bad guy, he just has a tremendously high opinion of himself   

Yes, good point. You learn all the wrong stuff playing WT. It happens to anyone that adjusts himself to such a lite game. I don`t fly WT or arcade race games (ex. grid2) for the same reason.

 

Don`t mean much if old geezers play WT. They`ll need to relearn simming all over again. If OTOH you stick with CloD or even IL2:1946, you have a much higher chance to feel with BoS right at home.

 

And yes, ofcourse navigation is a big part of flying and pilot skill. If you feel you`re a great pilot but can`t navigate for chit without a built in GPS. Well, you mine aswell stay with WT.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Mac_Messer

[AbortedMan]

Dear Hans, few tips considering your future posts: Using caplock and lot's of exclamation marks doesn't make  it more likely to anyone actually read what you are trying to say. It tends to annoy people, so does calling them ignorant and arrogant. And if you annoy people, you will not get your point across, quite the opposite in fact. Then again, if you just want to vent out a little bit steam after being annoyed yourself, then by all means carry on

 

And about old IL-2, I consider it to be pretty far from perfect in many aspects. These include CEM, FM and DM, among others. On the other hand, it had good User interface, Quick mission builder, Mission editor and multiplayer, qualities that have nothing to do with simulation but everything with making a successful game.

Get used to Hans' screaming. I've told him the same thing over and over again on the War Thunder forums and he just doesn't get it.

[Schwalbee]

For me WT was a gateway to flight Sims... I began in arcade(that didn't last long about 20 hours) and then on two hb which I played for a while, then I decided to plug my old joystick from bf2 that wasn't even a twist stick and didn't even have a hatswitch(logitech attack 3) but as I progressed I bought a better joystick and track ir 5..i learned much about ww2 aviation and I give WT credit for sparking and guiding my interests. The game isn't perfect and much work is needed(honestly tins of stuff sucks such as fm and dm's) but to bash WT pilots is not cool... Its like saying u have a bigger ding song cas u played il2 or dcs(Btw again due to WT I have bought il2,cod, dcs) so yea give credit to the game and wat is trying to do(imo doesn't seem like process lol) and respect ur fellow p pilots no matter their sim background. Thank you

[FuriousMeow]

I wouldn't really slag on WT players, regardless of what settings they play on (heck, tons of Il2 servers were icons/external view/no CEM/no turbulence/etc) especially since WT's core FM is Il-2's.

 

Yeah, it's mostly arcadey - but it did license it's FM from the Il-2 series, at least BoP and Birds of Steel and then WT is a modified FM of that.

 

BoS is going to be significantly different than what most are used to, regardless if it's WT or Il-2:46 or CloD in terms of just manuevering because the FM accounts for more calculations than the on-rails FMs many will be coming from.

 

Case in point, the ground handling video released today - Il-2:46 and CloD can't do that, they'd go Tokyo drift across the landscape because the landing gear have no lateral grip, oddly enough WT shares that exact same trait. Coincidence? No.

 

So just pack up your huge virtual pilot testes, it means nothing - this is a game and EVERYONE is welcome to play it and have fun regardless of background. Everyone will have to get used to BoS, and as long as you are accustomed to a joystick - you'll do just fine after some practice.

Edited November 9, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[=LD=Hethwill]

It is a whole new game. What we carry through different games can be resumed into - we know how to setup our hardware, we know how to move in 3D space with a plane, we know one or two favourite planes by heart, and we have an idea of how to find indicators on a less known cockpit - other than that every game is new.

 

Coming back to the very first post, I think other competitors action will take into account their own measurement of success other than the obvious money.

 

I'd say a MMO is measured in amount of players and second in time per player spent in the game. A simulator, any simulator is measured by amount of player and community created content.

 

Examples of both cases are World of Warcraft ( with all its expansion )  and FSX with all expansions and third part add ons. Mind you I never played any to a big extent, but their ratings is measured by different factors.

 

I'd say simulators don't really compete, I mean, you may as well spent one week dedicated to BoS and next week spend time on FSX, have a go with the historical events, and so on.

 

Taking on WT, there's no competition as well. Both games try to cater interest in historical combat, but to the digital pilot that wants to reenact ww2 air combat there is no doubt on which one is more fulfilling.

[JG26Hans_J_Marseille]

...

 

Ouch, was this necessary, Creep, at the end ??? What did i do to deserve this, especially from you...

 

I hope you and all others relized that i was NOT speaken about myself and my own flying skills which are mediocre at best, i was referring more about the FRB-Pilots in WT as a whole who got misjudged and underestimated here by some Guys, so i feeled the need to defend ALL of them !!!

 

 

Just wanting to clarify this...

[Blakhart]

Marrond.

 

If someone says FRB is not FRB at all - despite of some planes currently in game with unfinished flightmodels then there are two options:
1) he didn't play WT (or played it one year ago when it looked completely different)
2) he didn't play IL2 1946

There's no other option

 

 

It was my words, so you was talking about my opinion and my experience.

 

 

It's nice that you're high and mighty but get off your high horse and do your research before you start arguing

 

Isnt it personal offence ???

Yes it is.

 

So here I come with arms wide open and positive energy, I`m inviting you to my TS to have a friendly chat and you are out ? 0_o ?

Its not my aim to make a public show, but to quickly end this discussion.

I dont like forums... There is always some missunderstanding, there is always some problem due to non-verbal character of statement.

 

I can wait, we can meet in next week, just choose a date when you will be at home so other interested users could rejoin.

 

As I said, we can fly against or you can fly with me as a wingman. Its not to prove that you or I have better skils.

You will do what I say ( throttle using, manouvers ) and I will explain you how messed up is that thing and how it should work due to real factors.

 

When I`m teaching LG recruits im always using theory and practice.

Theory is for understanding a problem, practice is for keeping that situation and theme in memories.

Its in human nature, we have better memory when we connect situations with strong emotions.

Stronger emotions, better memory.

Sooner or later you will meet eL-G`s in the virtual sky.

Every of them some time ago was in my "hands" and you gonna feel on own skin that such education procedure is working fine.

 

Thats why I need you in the game and TS. Without it you wont understand. Other users can watch and listen.

 

Such meeting will take about an 1hour, max 2. If you want a movie for other players do it yourself.

Making a good video is more than 10 hours of work with PC and nasty programs.

If you have so much spare time you can record our voice in TS and track from game.

 

You can still use quote games or just talk in TS with some beer like real men do.

 

 

p.s.

By WT player I understand a player who had ONLY experience in WT. AH, IL2, WB:FH, CFS or even Jet-sim players are completly different story...

I know that more than half of FRB players are ex-AH, IL2... Old nicks, old friends, old enemies

 

p.s.2

Why I`m using so much "I"... ohhh, forgive that. I can try to do my best but english is not my native language. Sometimes I just try to use as simple sentences as I can to explain what I want to say...

I`m using dictionary, translator when I`m looking correct words but it wont change my bad style and grammar

 

In the past I had a lot of problems because of that... Its trivial but thats how it looks Even when I`m using some emoticons its not enough.

 

But ... I dont give up I`m still learning a lot also thx to such forum jostling

Edited November 9, 2013 by =LG=Blakhart

[Blakhart]

p.s.3

My edit expired ;/

 

Like Bearcat said, everyone need some time to used to new settings.

 

Its like in real aviation when even epxerienced pilot needs 10 to 100 h to used to new aircraft. Its normal.

Personally I think WT players used to new enviroment after 3-6 months and can be competetive ( depends on time which they spend in the game )

[FlatSpinMan]

Hey all

Seems to be a little more heated than necessary. I've not played WT but no doubt, among all those who aren't so serious about CFS, there are more than a few who would be into our little hobby, and that's great news. The more, the merrier. Condescending remarks about which is better, or more realistic get annoying really quickly and, frankly, just don't change anyone's mind.

 

Regarding the skilln level, some will be great pilots pretty quickly, I'm sure. Most won't - just like most of us. I've played Il2 for years and am still hopeless.I just play it for fun and to recreate scenes I've read about. We all play these games with different expectations, with different ideas of what's fun - and we're all right.

[Sternjaeger]

p.s.3

My edit expired ;/

 

Like Bearcat said, everyone need some time to used to new settings.

 

Its like in real aviation when even epxerienced pilot needs 10 to 100 h to used to new aircraft. Its normal.

Personally I think WT players used to new enviroment after 3-6 months and can be competetive ( depends on time which they spend in the game )

 

10 to 100 hours to get used to a new aircraft is a bit silly mate.. 

 

guys, don't forget that among you there are real life pilots with all sorts of experience, some of us are airline pilots, some are ex-military, some are small GA and others are vintage/warbird pilots, so if you really don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything just to look super cool. 10 years of flying simulators doesn't make you an expert of real aviation.

 

So save yourself and us time, and learn to listen more than just turn everything into a competition of who's more right.. 

 

This is not meant to be an attack on anyone, it's a general message to the community: we can all get a better sim if we all do our part, but it doesn't have to be a competition on who's cooler or thinks he knows more..

 

I believe we can do it together, so let's give it a try.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[II./JG27_Rich]

I'm putting up videos in Spits vS 109s too and trying to get everyone excited over there. Over in simhq I'm Hackl and I've posted every video I've found practically.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3805195/Videos_I_ve_seen_so_far_Adding#Post3805195

 

 

Put this together also.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsixapslSM&feature=c4-overview&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLvlnw9f-9Q&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2NlvI_qKs&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

Edited November 9, 2013 by II./JG27Richie

[Quax]

And yes, of course navigation is a big part of flying and pilot skill. If you feel you`re a great pilot but can`t navigate for chit without a built in GPS. 

 

German pilots, who flew in the east, all tell this. Navigation was one of the most demanding tasks. Their "maps" were missing almost everything. The fields were changing often and there were very little marks. Landing on the wrong side was not better, than to be killed in the air. 

 

Therefore it only starts to be a simulation, if icons are off.    ...and there is no NML in Stalingrad

Edited November 9, 2013 by Quax

[BMA_West]

Therefore it only starts to be a simulation, if icons are off.    ...and there is no NML in Stalingrad

And wont turning everything off on every server (from the start) repeat something what happened to ROF MP?

Wouldn't letting everyone have his kind of fun be a better option now?

It is a game which stars and ends with ppl's own kind of fun...

Only my 2 ct but who am I anyway.

Edited November 9, 2013 by West

[II./JG27_Rich]

Buy a circular protractor. Download copies of all of your maps and you're set. I use one sometimes and they work great.

 

 

[Blakhart]

 

so if you really don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything just to look super cool. 10 years of flying simulators doesn't make you an expert of real aviation.

 

I`m sitting in front of PC and I`m smiling

 

I suspect you know how it looks in real Stern, because in all your steps you need to show everyone that you are real pilot. :D

Hehe, its preety funny, but normal for me, I used to in my circles. As i said before, old joke: How to find pilot in the big party ? No need, he will present themselve.

You even have own picture in the cockpit as a avatar to show others who you are, what you do.

In the topic about pilot limitation I can predict you even didnt knew what we talk about with Osprey but finally you had a good topic to present yourself to community.

 

And its good man Pilot needs to be an Alpha Male, 90% of military pilots are AM so there is nothing to feel shame.

...

...

 

...

But let me explain that quoted part to our forum friends, because you are not completly right about it ( it can be a language problem, not knowledge issue ):

 

"get used to"  - polish word "przyzwyczaić się / przywyknąć " ( you can check in polish dictionary, or just goodle it ) is a complete different sentence than "well trained", perfectly practised"  so in my opinion that word define situation when such thing/problem/situation is not problematical for us, we know basic rules and my post was about it

 

ie. to plane, get used to I mean have that plane in pilots book, so it depends on plane how much hours licensed, medium - experienced ( by medium - experienced I think more than 500 hours, experienced 1000-1500 )pilot need to relearn new plane

 

Small Cessna need~10-20h

Heli 20-40h or even more ( depends how big he is, single or twin engine, how much avionics he have

Small aerobatic bird 10 for basic - 50+ for advanced

Jet trainer 50 -100 basic 150 - 250 advanced

Fighter 50-100 minimum +  XXX for advanced

 

But those numbers arent constants.

 

There is few main factors which are vital for this:

 

1) overall pilots experience

2) complication of plane

3) Heli pilot to plane pilot or plane pilot to heli pilot ( complete different manual work )

4) military / civil procedures

5) each country have own procedures, huh, even each aviation club have own training schedule

 

 

So getting back to the topic, in according to that I think that common (only)War Thunder fella needs approximately

3-6 months to used to new FM

another 3-6 months to learn new planes in basic stage

year or two to understand new game physics, leave the arcade habbits. Start to use more prop pitch, when and how close radiator, completly decrease flaps usage, learn to stall fight and so on, so on...

 

 

 

And at the end of this story short riddle for Mr. SternJager.

 

Guess who is smiling to you from 9000 m ?

 

 

p.s.

The funniest thing is in il2 community some players think I`m a 12 year old kid who spend 24/7 with games, or a cheater who boost his planes with some extra code...

Most of logical discussions ends as a stupid argues because people dont know who I am, what I do in real life and what knowledge I have due to my schools, training, studies...

 

Aviation is my life. Sims are my hobby and I like to be good at this. If someone have a problem with that, this is his problem, not mine. Its my way to spend free time and gameplay style.

 

I dont need my photo near my ride or my "2nd ride" in my profile.

I dont need to say, Hi! Im Sebastian, I am a pilot.

 

I dont need to show up in Community faces thread... I dont have enough real experience to act like ace. There is a lot more better real fighter pilots in sim community than I.

29 riders, Falcon boys, even saw some EF pilot here ;]

 

For this virtual world , I`m just Blakhart, a 12 year old arrogant cheater with big ego without real experience...

 

And "I used to" that...

I hope now you stop think that I`m a online master-blaster...

 

Cheers...

Edited November 9, 2013 by =LG=Blakhart

[Rama]

May I remind to this thread participants forum rule #12:

"Discussing private matters through the posting of public topics and posts in the forum are prohibited. Such posts will be deleted without warning or notice."

 

keep arguments there, but if you feel you have to discuss privatelly, please use PM.

[Sternjaeger]

Blakhart, perhaps it's the language barrier as you said, but the way you present your points sometimes really sounds "12 years old-like"..

 

I think he value of communities is to make them a collaborative place where everybody are honest about their skills and experience and contribute how they can: some of us are good at researching history, some of us are good at colour schemes and painting, others are experienced with mechanics and/or flying, others in weaponry and ballistics.. it's interesting how our daytime jobs and passion can help in this sort of communities. And even if you don't have a specific skill, you can still contribute in a lot of different ways.

 

But as I said, if we're all anonymous and hide behind an avatar, our word is as worthy as the other's, that's why I believe in sharing knowledge, more than turning every post in an exchange of wit and pointless discussions. You've said something about yourself in your last post, which sheds some light on you, on what your experience is and how you can help the community. 

 

All I said let's use this instead of saying "mine is longer than yours", and I have nothing else to say on the matter.

 

Actually I do, sorry Rama, this is O/T, but I felt I had to reply.

[URUAker]

After reading this topic i´m downloading WT!!!

[BMA_West]

After reading this topic i´m downloading WT!!!

Way to go, cherish the vices, learn from the Frenchies ...

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I'm putting up videos in Spits vS 109s too and trying to get everyone excited over there. Over in simhq I'm Hackl and I've posted every video I've found practically.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3805195/Videos_I_ve_seen_so_far_Adding#Post3805195

 

 

Put this together also.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsixapslSM&feature=c4-overview&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLvlnw9f-9Q&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT2NlvI_qKs&list=UUvwBiY3bhcOmHuZAF2J2fQA

JG11" Hackl" from  IL2 '46 co-ops?

[II./JG27_Rich]

JG11" Hackl" from  IL2 '46 co-ops?

No that's another one. I was Hackl back in WARBIRDS since 1998 but then changed for hyperlobby when another Hackl came along. I just started using my name.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I do not belittle WT players, but the software itself. It is utter crap and a joke. For instant gratification and in need of some easy mode flying, WT is your choice. But I would not call it a sim teaching you "the ropes" as all you learn is fly by funky FM's. You can learn there team work, communications and all that needed when flying with a group for sure. Cliffs is much better, but the performance issues still plague it despite TF's excellent work. Badly coded code is bad no matter what and takes ages to fix..if even possible. DCS is a button nightmare to others, a heaven to others. It teaches you the procedural things operating these newer aircrafts. Sure, I get to do that at work so nothing new really. BoS seems to have it pretty balanced. No button nightmares detracting from game play, but no over simplification either. Playability vs realism looks to be in a good balance, but testing will tell more about that.

 

 About pilots being alpha males. So true, but there is a saying that brings them down to us, mere mortals: You can teach a monkey to fly a plane, but not to repair it.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Flanker35M

[Marrond]

DCS is a button nightmare to others, a heaven to others. It teaches you the procedural things operating these newer aircrafts.

Regardless (in my opinion) it's just a nice feature to have since it can be skipped for those who don't like it. It's not like everyone have to participate in button clicking orgy :3

 

Besides who knows, IF BoS will be successful as a product then maybe they would upgrade cockpits gradualy after a year of two.

[Wolger]

Hilarious thread..

 

Challenge accepted!

 

Coming from WT FRB, can't wait to prove that WT pilots are not all that bad.

 

I'd mastered DCS P-51D - taking off, landing smoothly, engine management, aerial dogfight, fixed ground attack -  loving every moment when flying it, whacking it to the limit without blowing up the engine, could read the gauges dials in imperials just fine without on-screen HuD..spent countless hours...I think I'm OK pilot.

Regardless (in my opinion) it's just a nice feature to have since it can be skipped for those who don't like it. It's not like everyone have to participate in button clicking orgy :3

Besides who knows, IF BoS will be successful as a product then maybe they would upgrade cockpits gradualy after a year of two.

 

Not that overwhelming really..like less than 10 switches, buttons, sliders to press, flick and all these steps will become a second nature.

[dburne]

Regardless (in my opinion) it's just a nice feature to have since it can be skipped for those who don't like it. It's not like everyone have to participate in button clicking orgy :3

 

 

While I would never use all of them, and probably if I did would only be one or two, it certainly does not bother me for it to be available. It is hard for me to imagine how someone could fly the plane, participate in combat, all while adjusting things in their cockpit with a mouse. But for those that do use it for things they prefer, I am glad it is there for them.

 

I fly Cliffs of Dover regularly and have all essential functions , along with some not so essential, programmed to my Warthog HOTAS.

Everything from adjusting gunsights ( setting convergence and wingspan both), to radiator, prop, and mixture control, to fuel cock and magnetos, to  brake -  to even taking screenshots.

I pretty much do not touch the keyboard at all from takeoff to landing. 

I do however hope eventually BOS will have more of this available for those that prefer it.

[Wolger]

It was War Thunder FRB that caused me to purchase TrackIR5 on impulse. I'm new to simming although I'd played quite a numbers of flight and tank simulators in the past like iM1A2, MS FSX in the past.

[Bearcat]

Buy a circular protractor. Download copies of all of your maps and you're set. I use one sometimes and they work great.

 

 

 

Or you could just download this Compass Rose and print it out on a transparency and cut to size. The maps are outdated as in it is not a complete set since this is an old DL from a few years back  .. but they are good.

 

As for some of the other stuff in this thread... Look guys some of you need to just calm down. This my balls are bigger than your stuff that we do around here is just so so lame. WT has it's place.. and consider that WT is still an ongoing WIP so who knows where it will end up. As it is now it is certainy a gateway sim but one thing we need to all keep in mind.. Even if WT was pure arcade and that was all it was.. it's pilots can come over to any other sim for the price of admission ... so it would behove all of thiose chest thumping my sim is more sim than your game dudes to be mindful of that. If you can learn to ride a bike you can learn to walk you can learn to run.