Competitors reactions

[VA_NAVY]

 It will be interesting to see what the other game companies will do to entice you to stay with them. Can you say major FRB exodus?

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

FRB?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Full Real Battle (or something like that, I don't play WT, so I'm not sure). But yes, it will be interesting to see and hopefully many WT players are drawn to real simming next year.

[Sternjaeger]

as long as the sim manages to maintain its identity and objectives, I'll be happy. More people means more targets to shoot down, fun times 

[Mac_Messer]

Even if I have my buffs with 1CGS`s idea of a realistic WWII flightsim, I think BoS is going to be extremely hard for WT FRB goers at the start. That is one reason why. Next is the actual number of very good virtual pilots who will frequent BoS servers. - from both RoF and CloD. If WT players ever choose to fly in full real BoS coops, people like me are going to have a field day. At least for the first year or two.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Mac_Messer

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Make the most of it while you can guys!

 

It would turn out to be hilarious if War Thunder proved to be the breeding ground for the next wave of Aces/Experten to take up combat flight simming.

 

Imagine a whole rush of young Mr X's dominating the servers for the next 20 years.

 

I'd be hanging up my flight goggles!

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Ah, TY.

 

I would have thought that folks playing War Thunder would be looking for a different experience than BoS.  Sometimes you want a realistic game, sometimes you want an arcade game.  I personally wouldn't have thought of them as competing.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Well let's hope that quite a few will migrate, it means more people to fill the servers, more people to shoot down and more money to 1c game studios -> Better chance for next theatre with more planes and next after that.

[Creepermoss]

Everyone starts somewhere, the odds of WT producing an ace by itself are slim, but that doesn't mean they won't be effective pilots given time to acclimate. Jimmy Hendrix had to learn to play at some point, y'know?

[=LD=Hethwill]

It is all tied to the will to learn and the humility to understand defeat. Taking on a context individual, Marseille was a sucky scrub before he got the hang of it

[Volkoff]

Make the most of it while you can guys!

 

It would turn out to be hilarious if War Thunder proved to be the breeding ground for the next wave of Aces/Experten to take up combat flight simming.

 

Imagine a whole rush of young Mr X's dominating the servers for the next 20 years.

 

I'd be hanging up my flight goggles!

 

 

 It will be interesting to see what the other game companies will do to entice you to stay with them. Can you say major FRB exodus?

 

Having the WT full real battle crew come over to play with us would be epic. I really hope it happens. It is a logical transition. I hope they make it.   MJ

[TheBlackPenguin]

Some have already pre-ordered BOS from having played WT FRB, I have seen this from other threads here in the forums. One major reason I don't make fun out of WT, its a good entry system in general, although a lot of the arcade players are playing exactly what they want, an arcade flight game and these aren't quite so likely to move and stay. Ones moving into and using FRB I think are much more likely to move to BOS etc.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I guess the first Air Combat Game I flew was 1942 - the video game. All it need to do was spark an interest and it led to bigger and better games and then to simulations.

 

What if 1% of the War Thunder players decide they want to try something with more depth. That'd be a fairly large influx of people coming to BoS.

 

It doesn't matter what road you take when it's getting to the destination that counts

[FlyingNutcase]

All it need to do was spark an interest and it led to bigger and better games and then to simulations.

 

 

So true for a lot of things in life. For a lot of players enjoying War Thunder, arcade style gaming may be all they have experienced. For some, seeing or experiencing a sim will open their eyes and give the "Wow!" factor; and they'll never look back. All those folk need is the spark of interest. Enter BOS :-)

Edited November 8, 2013 by FlyingNutcase

[hiro]

war thunder and warplanes is good as it  interests people to get deeper, and go the true sim route most of us are walking . . . but most people will wonk out at CEM and complexity we (simmers) desire . . . and go back to their arcade games. 

 

But they are not true contenders to our genre. A true contender is one where a simmer has to pick which sim gets how many hours spent flying about in it. . .  like in the old days where it was  IL-2 vs Combat Flight Simulator 2  vs Battle of Britain (ok MS wasn't that great, but  . . . it was there)

 

or even before . .. secret weapons of the luftwaffe vs B-17 Flying fortess vs  aces of the pacific

 

 

I think the true contender for BOS would be DCS WOrld War II, since the DCS mustang is pretty well done, and the DCS crew is all about accurate flight models. And now they have Ilya and Oleg with some of the original IL-2 crew . . .

 

But in the eagle forums, people are posting about complaints of no updates or new news ( :D ) since the end of the kickstart thing . . .

At least here we are blessed with weekly updates. Imagine dudes kicking down a few hundreds for DCS dubya 2 and one of no news . . . for long time . . .

 

I wanted to be in on it but waited too long for their version of founders. BOS devs know how to work with the community (given how long they allowed founders, while DCS only one month). 

 

And given the tortoise pace of DCS development . . . the IL-2 series will be well on its way when something major takes place. Graphics wise from whats coming out . . . the games are similar. 

 

so DCS has accuracy down + graphics  but release time and community communication take a ding

IL-2 BOS series has accuracy down + graphics, and no dings on release time or community relations. 

 

 

a case in point was PS3 vs Wii vs Xbox.  the PS3 stat wise (processor, video card etc) is the best gaming console, but because of delayed release for its generation and cost. PS3 took a major hit. the Wii was one of the first on the scene and despite less 3rd party games / and much less stats (processor) and much better communication (and multi play) with its players, still is putting the beat down. 

 

Sony learned its lesson so the PS 4 will be coming out faster and in in lieu with its competitors (and not so eclipsing in the stats dept). 

 

Sometimes it pays to be the early bird that gets the early worm provided if the early bird keeps interest (which BOS has)

 

 

But DCS crew reactions seems to be mum, as most things there are speculation, but they have a Dora and P-51 ready to go (I think the dora is only AI at the moment). And the big thing was the expectations from when their kickstart started to when it ended, they made changes . . . 

 

So their enticement is late war, popular fighters (p-51 vs FW-190) , with period ground targets / maps etc . . . they probably didn't go with pacific partly because water and ships, nuances of carriers / naval activity for both sides would have been alot to develop. 

 

Along with the standard true sim enticements (accurate FM's / DM's etc . . . ) that drew us to original IL-2 they are using. And the final enticements DCS has is Oleg himself, but it seems he's more like a contractor . . .

 

But the advantage is with BOS, as its coming out earlier, we have communication, we have videos of actual alpha game (and it does look good), community has solid membership with lots of positive things for the BOS development, the devs gave us a decent road map and hasn't changed it. 

Edited November 8, 2013 by hiro

[DoWSiq6Six]

Ya know... You guys are talkin bad 'bout me! :D I'm one of those who basically started with WT. Saw some vids, dusted off my x52 pro & started flying. Beating my face into a wall, trying to compete with mouse aimers in AB (ugh). Eventually felt confident enough to fly in FRB where it's an exercise in frustration chasing grey pixels across the sky. That game got me curious about how things Should act. Started really checking out DCS. Got a better stick & a couple modules. I'm no Ace in the sky, but we all start somewhere. Before this I was heavy into FPS, before that MMORPGs.

 

Anyhow, WT may comprise largely of mouth breathing, mouse aiming "aces", but the guys in FRB have spent money on the hardware. From who I've talked to, a good portion are anxiously awaiting BoS & DCS.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 WT won't attract too many as the players want mouse fly. The trend of catering to WASD + mouse crew is a very common thing these days. Have to please the twitch crowd requiring instant gratification. Holy crap if you have to read a few lines of text to actually learn something..You get the pic. But I hope those who migrate will stay and enjoy the simulator experience as the rest of us.

 

 Regarding DCS. It is too sterile IMO even the things are modelled to last nut and bolt + coffee cup holder. I have the DCS P51D and while it is OK to fly there are some strange quirks on it making me doubt the plane would do that IRL. But not a pilot so just a gut feeling. Not going to debate that, just flying the plane and that's it.

 

 So now 777 Studios and 1C have THE chance to be the King of the Hill in simulations. And so far they have shown it is possible. Let's do our part and be helpful to develop BoS to a lasting IL-2 series

[Blakhart]

 

Make the most of it while you can guys!

 

It would turn out to be hilarious if War Thunder proved to be the breeding ground for the next wave of Aces/Experten to take up combat flight simming.

 

Imagine a whole rush of young Mr X's dominating the servers for the next 20 years.

 

I'd be hanging up my flight goggles!

 

 

What you mean by Mr X ?? A random guy or some specific player ??

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

What you mean by Mr X ?? A random guy or some specific player ??

you know, you and your gamepad, so unrealistic MK.MR.X

[FTC_Karaya]

 It will be interesting to see what the other game companies will do to entice you to stay with them. Can you say major FRB exodus?

 

I dont think Gaijin is breaking a sweat because of BoS or DCS:WWII. Compare average player numbers between WarThunder and the more hardcore simulations then think again.

[Blakhart]

Unrealistic MK.Mr.X ???

Huh, I asked to be sure. First time I saw some info about this guy in ATAG forum. Guys were whining a lot about skills of this player.

I saw some his video on YT and checked his channel as well.

 

I remember that I flew in few missions on WT with him and against him.

 

He is not arcade , mouse/pad player. Good virtual pilot, probably better than most of the western offline aces...

He is not my friend and I didnt flew against him 1vs1 to check his skills but I know when someone is good.

 

He is one of the old russian players from il2 1946, ADW veteran as we can check it on his channel ( from one of the older seasons of ADW ).

When you play more than 5 years its obvious you can aim&shoot. That guy play probably longer...

 

I dont know why you have problems to him...   Can you explain ?

[SOLIDKREATE]

War Thunder was the game that got me into simming. I first bought CloD and has to shelve it until TF fixed it. I still can't get more than 5mi from the field before I case the plane to burn up or destroy some other engine component. The hard lessons learned in sims are always very rewarding. At least I can take of now LOL!

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

yea his uber unrealistic shooting, and check his steam your name is in his list. as his.

I will forever keep his name in my head and will forever maintain he and other of his squadron cheat.

No matter what he shows in his video he can always manipulate the video. Unless you can video him live in a session on ATAG server sitting in his computer or another computer from a lan party or competition event where they control the setting's. then maybe and the same amount of kills he captures while playing. Then just maybe I will believe he is super human/

Edited November 8, 2013 by 71st_Mastiff

[Blakhart]

 

and check his steam your name is in his list. as his.

What you mean ?  Do I am one of the video 2nd stage actors ) ???

 

 

he can always manipulate the video

 

Its normal, video will show what you want to show . Thats how all media works.

 

 

I will forever keep his name in my head and will forever maintain he and other of his squadron cheat.

 

This is a serious offence...

 

I know some guys from russian community who fly in WT, I flew with them or against them in few tournaments or virtual wars. There is nothing special in their tactic or skills.

Good experienced players thats all...

 

Where you see the cheats m8...?

Edited November 8, 2013 by =LG=Blakhart

[FlatSpinMan]

Let's not do this, guys. I know nothing about multiplayer, but I do know you don't go talking about people on other forums. If there's an issue, please discuss it on that site's forum.

[White1]

No offense guys, but is this thread derailing into a playground for the cocky and check my medals dudes? Is it necessary at all?

[JG26Hans_J_Marseille]

Full Real Battle (or something like that, I don't play WT, so I'm not sure). But yes, it will be interesting to see and hopefully many WT players are drawn to real simming next year.

 

 

as long as the sim manages to maintain its identity and objectives, I'll be happy. More people means more targets to shoot down, fun times 

 

 

Even if I have my buffs with 1CGS`s idea of a realistic WWII flightsim, I think BoS is going to be extremely hard for WT FRB goers at the start. That is one reason why. Next is the actual number of very good virtual pilots who will frequent BoS servers. - from both RoF and CloD. If WT players ever choose to fly in full real BoS coops, people like me are going to have a field day. At least for the first year or two.

 

 

Make the most of it while you can guys!

 

It would turn out to be hilarious if War Thunder proved to be the breeding ground for the next wave of Aces/Experten to take up combat flight simming.

 

Imagine a whole rush of young Mr X's dominating the servers for the next 20 years.

 

I'd be hanging up my flight goggles!

 

 

Come on Guys, pls take away this attitude and stop speaking from that high above to your fellow Warthunder-Collegues !!!

 

If some of you wouldnt be so ignorant (arrogant ???) and would take a closer look on Warthunders FRB, you would realize that the gap between old IL:1946 Full Realism Servers and the current FRB in WT isnt as big as you want to believe !!!

 

There are only a few (small) differences:

- smaller maps

- Deathmatch scenario with no respawns

- not so sophisticated Engine-Management (but the difference isnt that big)

- some Planes dont have correct FMs (but honestly in old IL2 it took years to get all Planes the correct (???) FMs)

- other Planes have VERY detailed FMs and honestly i dont see a difference to old IL2 there, for some Planes it even looks like their FMs are more detailed

 

On the other hand we have MANY things in common:

- a huge amount of VERY experienced and EXTREMLY skilled Pilots who are flying FlightSims (AND all IL2 titles) for decades !!!

- some VERY old Pro-Squadrons (most of them russian ones) best known out of old IL2 days for their exceptional performance !!!

- NO icons, NO 3rd PV with forced Cockpit, NO Padlock View !!!

- most part of the players are organized in squadrons because those intense Deathmatches gives not much room to stay out of the action, so teamwork is essential

 

 

Pls do not mix the funny Arcade-Part in Warthunder and the mainly Mouse-steered Modes with those mentionend FRBs !!!

 

At least this part is a serious attempt for a SIMULATION, even when it have still (and maybe will forever) have its shortcomings because Gajins Focus has shifted to the casual Player... if this hadnt been the case, i dont know if so many of us would be here waiting for this game to come out...

 

But never mind, keep on underestimating the Pilots out of FRB but be prepared for a nasty surprise if you will meet some of us finally in the BoS-Skies !!! Over and out !!!

Edited November 8, 2013 by JG26Hans_J_Marseille

[76SQN-FatherTed]

I think WT is a good thing.  It's a good thing in itself as it seems to be making a ton of cash and getting players into flying games.  It's also good because, as others have said here, there are bound to be a few players in WT who, having experienced a flying game "for free", are now hankering for something with more depth and so will pick up BoS (or DCS).  Without first trying WT they may have thought that such titles are not for them.

[DB605]

 

 Regarding DCS. It is too sterile IMO even the things are modelled to last nut and bolt + coffee cup holder. I have the DCS P51D and while it is OK to fly there are some strange quirks on it making me doubt the plane would do that IRL. But not a pilot so just a gut feeling. Not going to debate that, just flying the plane and that's it.

 

 

 

These were exactly my feelings when i had about +5 hours on DCS Mustang. Then i searched some more info about good joystick settings etc, and now after 25+ hours i'm waiting DCS Europe '44 more than any sim ever

Sure i hope and believe BOS will be same level on many things but without clickpits & bolt and nut thing it just won't be the same, for me. Anyways, will be exciting to test early acces version, i'm ready...

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Dear Hans, few tips considering your future posts: Using caplock and lot's of exclamation marks doesn't make  it more likely to anyone actually read what you are trying to say. It tends to annoy people, so does calling them ignorant and arrogant. And if you annoy people, you will not get your point across, quite the opposite in fact. Then again, if you just want to vent out a little bit steam after being annoyed yourself, then by all means carry on

 

And about old IL-2, I consider it to be pretty far from perfect in many aspects. These include CEM, FM and DM, among others. On the other hand, it had good User interface, Quick mission builder, Mission editor and multiplayer, qualities that have nothing to do with simulation but everything with making a successful game.

[Bearcat]

 It will be interesting to see what the other game companies will do to entice you to stay with them. Can you say major FRB exodus?

 

They will do their thing... but it will be what it will be. BoS will have support, backing an active fan base and a head start. WT will be to BoS what FA, WB and Aces High were to IL2 I suspect and there will be cross pollenation and room to expand but I think the traffic will go more from XXX to BoS rather than the other way around. There will be those who will prefer the more nuts and bolts approach like DCS but I think that BoS will wind up being on par with CoD in many ways as far as simability and immersion even if it is not the full blown click pit scenario that CoD is. I think it will be more appealing to a wider array of simmers than either of it's contemporaries.

[SYN_DerHesse70]

yea his uber unrealistic shooting, and check his steam your name is in his list. as his.

I will forever keep his name in my head and will forever maintain he and other of his squadron cheat.

No matter what he shows in his video he can always manipulate the video. Unless you can video him live in a session on ATAG server sitting in his computer or another computer from a lan party or competition event where they control the setting's. then maybe and the same amount of kills he captures while playing. Then just maybe I will believe he is super human/

 

Never heard before of this guy. After looking some videos on youtube i must say he is a good shooter and pilot. But i see nothing like cheating!

[Sokol1]

 

If WT players ever choose to fly in full real BoS coops, people like me are going to have a field day. At least for the first year or two.

But never mind, keep on underestimating the Pilots out of FRB but be prepared for a nasty surprise if you will meet some of us finally in the BoS-Skies !!! Over and out !!!

 

 

I think the same when ready the first statement, Machine Killers & Mr.X and various Russian squads are playing in WT FRB now.   

 

Sokol1

[Blakhart]

FRB in WT is not FRB at all...

 

Due to incredible weak FM ( weak high and low speed, unrealistic thrust vestor, weak stall characteristic, etc.,etc. i could talk about it for more than an few hours and show what is wrong with that game ) its just an arcade game with cockpit...

 

Differences even between old il2-1946 Full Real settings are huge.

 

- friendly icons in the game

- icon on the map

- radio comunication which gives you auto-info about position

- "jumping coins" when you hit your enemy... ( epic fall... even now when i see those info +5 exp, +100 exp im smiling... )

- small map

- very easy objectives

- extremly soft targets, you could easily kill a tank when the bomb hit ~ 20-50m area near heavy tank

 

Plus:

Damage model taken from "Arkanoid"

 

For those who dont remember that game and time of first consoles :

 

 

 

So dear Hans, I understand that you can become a good virtual pilot after few years of training but plz dont tell me that WT is a simulation...

 

And: No... I dont expect nasty suprise... at all...

[Mac_Messer]

Pls do not mix the funny Arcade-Part in Warthunder and the mainly Mouse-steered Modes with those mentionend FRBs !!!

 

At least this part is a serious attempt for a SIMULATION, even when it have still (and maybe will forever) have its shortcomings because Gajins Focus has shifted to the casual Player... if this hadnt been the case, i dont know if so many of us would be here waiting for this game to come out...

 

But never mind, keep on underestimating the Pilots out of FRB but be prepared for a nasty surprise if you will meet some of us finally in the BoS-Skies !!! Over and out !!!

Oooooh aaaaah I`m scared already

[RoboticPope]

.......

 

And: No... I dont expect nasty suprise... at all...

 

Well how would you ever know? Players coming from frb in WT arn't going to have a big sign saying "Ex-FRB Player" or "Learned to fly in WT"  when playing Il-2BoS online lol.

 

Hans is right in that the notion that all FRB-WT players are going to struggle in Il-2:BoS and be easy kills online for players of more realistic sims, is ridiculus. Some might struggle, some might be amazing, just as some il-2:1946 players might find the change difficult while others will find it an easy switch. 

 

Most (new to flightsim) players of FRB in WT who are here want more realistic simulation features that is why they are interested in Il-2:BoS,  It's important not to insult these players when you show your personal dislike for WT.     

[Krig]

I'm from wt. And so is a big part of my squadron. So we shouldn't move over? Gosh, to bad we all bought the prem edition. Whoe me.

But yea beat on and insult the new ones is the way to get a growing community.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Take it easy. I personally believe that some who come from wt will adapt quickly and became proficient quite fast, for others it will take more time and some won't at all and will maybe go back to wt. What would really suprise me is that if people whose only experiense is from wt would become instant aces as for my (very limited, I admit) experiense of wt is that it's not really a sim, but a game with sim-like features.

 

About being insulting towards wt players, you are right about that. There is no need for it, it's bad manners and it is also counter-productive as at least I hope that as many as possible would come over to BoS.

[Blakhart]

Gentelmens, lets make it clear.

 

I`m really happy, that you are here, no irony nor sarcasm.

It was a good step for better quality.

Second, Its better when we have bigger community!!!

 

More players, more money, stronger community, more arguments for 777&1C to work harder , simple right ?

 

More than 3000 founders, more than 9000 registered forum users!!!

 

I`m not your enemy but I have enough experience to say such opinion about GAME War Thunder after all those years on-line.

Plus thx to my job I have bigger knowledge about aviation than basic player, so when I know that I`m right I never hesitate to defend my arguments.

 

As you can see my post was about game!!! Not about players !!! Read caerfully and stop defending weak MMO game at all cost. WT is for fun, but its not a sim.

 

Ex-WT players are not worst than any other rookies in sim world but your experience is still very small.

 

Flight model in IL-2, Clod, RoF was harder than in WT, so we can expect same hard FM in BoS.

At the begin you gonna feel like small kids runing at night in a big dark wood.

You gonna need to learn from the begin how to take off, land, aim, shoot and define turning room for the enemy, because in WT thx to magic FM planes have veeeery short radius and you can shoot from almost every angle.

Now you dont have too much chance in regular dogfight against ex-il2 players... ( sneaky attack from 6 is usually 100% succes so I dont count it )

 

You still want to continue forum fight ?

I have better idea...

 

Launch Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover and come back after week or more...

 

Cheers!!!

And good luck in your sim adventure!!!

Edited November 8, 2013 by =LG=Blakhart

[Krig]

Gentelmens, lets make it clear.

 

I`m really happy, that you are here, no irony nor sarcasm.

It was a good step for better quality.

Second, Its better when we have bigger community!!!

 

More players, more money, stronger community, more arguments for 777&1C to work harder , simple right ?

 

More than 3000 founders, more than 9000 registered forum users!!!

 

I`m not your enemy but I have enough experience to say such opinion about GAME War Thunder after all those years on-line.

Plus thx to my job I have bigger knowledge about aviation than basic player, so when I know that I`m right I never hesitate to defend my arguments.

 

As you can see my post was about game!!! Not about players !!! Read caerfully and stop defending weak MMO game at all cost. WT is for fun, but its not a sim.

 

Ex-WT players are not worst than any other rookies in sim world but your experience is still very small.

 

Flight model in IL-2, Clod, RoF was harder than in WT, so we can expect same hard FM in BoS.

At the begin you gonna feel like small kids runing at night in a big dark wood.

You gonna need to learn from the begin how to take off, land, aim, shoot and define turning room for the enemy, because in WT thx to magic FM planes have veeeery short radius and you can shoot from almost every angle.

Now you dont have too much chance in regular dogfight against ex-il2 players... ( sneaky attack from 6 is usually 100% succes so I dont count it )

 

You still want to continue forum fight ?

I have better idea...

 

Launch Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover and come back after week or more...

 

Cheers!!!

And good luck in your sim adventure!!!

Oh I'm not here to fight. But the wt players subpar have been floating about the forum from time to time. And deep down I really don't care. well maybe a little bit.

I have both RoF and clod. Doing some cem practise in clod and just having a blast in RoF.

 

I'm looking forward to this and I'm no strange to learn something new.

So have a drag on the peace pipe and take it easy