Developer Diary, Part 112 - Discussion

[707shap_Srbin]

good question! i hope everything is going smoothly

[RainMan]

Has the Henschel 129B been requested yet?

 

[Freycinet]

You can see where the inspiration for the A-10 Warthog came from...

[Frequent_Flyer]

You can see where the inspiration for the A-10 Warthog came from...

From the Gatling gun, essentially the first ever machine gun used in the American civil war, by union soldiers. Obviously a very successful design, as opposed to the 129.

[Asgar]

oh yeah...the Hs 129 wasn't successful at all...especially considering that it was basically made form spare parts and is the only plane of WWII that managed to completely stop an armored ground offensive without any own ground troups involved but yeah....not successful. [Edited]. You're drunk

 

Please check your PMs.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Bearcat

[Frequent_Flyer]

oh yeah...the Hs 129 wasn't successful at all...especially considering that it was basically made form spare parts and is the only plane of WWII that managed to completely stop an armored ground offensive without any own ground troups involved but yeah....not successful. Go home American. You're drunk

Home, sober and still correct. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Apart from the engines (first series had Argus engines, later ones the more powerfull and reliable french Rhone engines) there were no "spare parts" involved in the Hs-129. It was a completely new design that filled it's requirements of a heavy armoured tank buster (the Hs-129 was not meant as a versatile attack aircraft).

 

While not having the best performance and bad controlls they were suprisingly effective. Effective enought to stay in service threwout the war in different theatres including Afrika.

 

The (mostly) bad reputation comes from the fit of the 7,5Bk that had a great impact on the aircrafts stability and weight. That was no fault of the construction though as it was not designed to carry such a big weapon.

 

With that sayed I'm eager to see it ingame.

[Asgar]

I'm just glad the Americans only build amazing planes like the P-39 "grape fruit shooter" and the Airacomet aka the slowest jet ever

 

 

Strike two....... Do you like baseball....?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Bearcat

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

sweet je***

[Caudron431]

The more they look the same, the more they seem to hate themselves. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

http://www.luft46.com/junkers/jugap.html

 

I think that is enough off topic for now, at least from my side

 

Looking forward to the first german Schlachtflugzeug. Hopefully they'll show the unlocks in a seperate dev diary at some point.

[Sandhill]

You can see where the inspiration for the A-10 Warthog came from...

 

+1

Take a really big cannon and build a plane around it.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Big cannon, plane built around big cannon...

 

[Finkeren]

Big cannon, plane built around big cannon...

 

Well the P-39 wasn't exactly built around a heavy cannon. The 37mm was more of an afterthought. Edited November 11, 2015 by Finkeren

[Freycinet]

From the Gatling gun, essentially the first ever machine gun used in the American civil war, by union soldiers. Obviously a very successful design, as opposed to the 129.

If you say that Fairchild engineers were exclusively inspired by the Gatling gun when they made the A-10 I guess I'll just have to believe you. It certainly explains the engine placement which is very similar to a two-horse carriage.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Finkeren, I don't think so. The original concept had the M4 cannon, and many major aspects of the aircraft were created with that in mind - namely the engine positioning and the tricycle gear.

 

The P-39 was one of the first planes to use a tri-cycle landing gear configuration, which eventually would be standard on all fighters. Another feature that didn't catch on was the car-like door to exit the cockpit instead of a sliding canopy. Most notable was the mid-fuselage placement of the engine. This made way for the Colt M4 37mm cannon protruding out of the nose. The powerplant was the Allison V-1710, essentially the same engine as that which powered the XP-38 and XP-40 prototypes. It was equipped with the B-5 turbo-supercharger and rated at 1,150hp. The unarmed and unarmored prototype could reach a stunning speed of over 390mph and could climb to 20,000 feet in five minutes.

 

If I remember correctly the 20mm cannon was a British requirement, which is why it was predominant in the early models returned from the RAF while the P-39D-2 had both Hispano and M4 cannons.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

If you say that Fairchild engineers were exclusively inspired by the Gatling gun when they made the A-10 I guess I'll just have to believe you. It certainly explains the engine placement which is very similar to a two-horse carriage.

Yup, the A-10 was purpose built around the GAU cannon. The next two factors were survivability and loiter time. It continues to excel at all three, even after nearly four decades.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

[Freycinet]

I agree with all you say, I just don't agree that Fairchild didn't look at earlier ground attack planes, of course they did, otherwise they wouldn't have been doing their job well (and they did).

 

Here is an article about the various inspirations of the A-10, primarily the StuKa and the Sturmovik: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/stuka-and-sturmovik-the-aircraft-that-inspired-the-a-10-8c8d885d61db

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Other than generically, I doubt Fairchild looked much at thirty year old prop planes for design considerations. Otherwise they wouldn't have been doing their job well 

[Freycinet]

Other than generically, I doubt Fairchild looked much at thirty year old prop planes for design considerations. Otherwise they wouldn't have been doing their job well 

 

They did have a long hard look at the Skyraider for your information:

 

http://www.historynet.com/the-warplane-nobody-wanted.htm

 

"Tasked with leading the A-10 team and writing the specs for the prototype, Sprey interviewed every Vietnam Spad pilot and forward air controller he could find. As a result, he prioritized long loiter time, good range, excellent visibility, low-and-slow maneuverability, survivability and lethal weapons [...]"

Edited November 11, 2015 by Freycinet

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The SPAD was barely out of front line service at that time and was definitely considered in formulating design considerations. Although, this was somewhat generic as well. It was an offensive and defensive stalwart with excellent loiter time which could carry as much ordinance as a typical B-17 loadout.

 

And I forgot the fouth major design consideration which was maintenance. The A-10 has numerous parts which can swap left to right and is easilly maintained in the field.

Edited November 11, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Frequent_Flyer]

If you say that Fairchild engineers were exclusively inspired by the Gatling gun when they made the A-10 I guess I'll just have to believe you. It certainly explains the engine placement which is very similar to a two-horse carriage.

You would actually make some sense if you argued all nations that developed and designed a " heavy machine gun" reviewed the Gatling gun design , but I doubt that was your intent.

The SPAD was barely out of front line service at that time and was definitely considered in formulating design considerations. Although, this was somewhat generic as well. It was an offensive and defensive stalwart with excellent loiter time which could carry as much ordinance as a typical B-17 loadout.

 

And I forgot the fouth major design consideration which was maintenance. The A-10 has numerous parts which can swap left to right and is easilly maintained in the field.

Additionally, and of critical importance is the fact that the second engine is redundant, it could easily accomplish it task with one engine out ,and get you home to talk about it.

[Asgar]

You would actually make some sense if you argued all nations that developed and designed a " heavy machine gun" reviewed the Gatling gun design , but I doubt that was your intent.

 

but they didn't...why do you like to promote wrong facts?

[Frequent_Flyer]

but they didn't...why do you like to promote wrong facts?

While I am a proud American, my ancestry is German-See Volkswagen

[Dakpilot]

 the only plane of WWII that managed to completely stop an armored ground offensive without any own ground troups involved

.

 

I thought that (often repeated) myth, "Bruno Meyer story" has been fairly well explored and debunked, with actual documented combat records from both sides, although based on fact, the success story grew out of all proportion, - majority of 'tank' casualties were Bren Carriers, were supported by Sch.G 1's FW190F3's and a panzer regiment was also involved

 

Not to say the HS-129 was a bad ground attack A/C, it did a stirling job for what it was, in many instances

 

And it would be an interesting addition

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Asgar]

Bren Carriers that looked T-34 tanks and fought on the eastern front? I think we're talking about different events   (Bolgograd , 26th Armor Brigade of the Russians, the Hs 129s killed 1/4 of the Russian tanks and the Russians stopped their attack)

edit: typo

Edited November 12, 2015 by I./ZG76Asgar

[Frequent_Flyer]

This might help:http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/04/ground-attack-aircraft-myth-of-the-tank-busters/

[Dakpilot]

Bren Carriers that looked T-34 tanks and fought on the eastern front? I think we're talking about different events   (Bolgograd , 26th Armor Brigade of the Russians, the Hs 129s killed 1/4 of the Russian tanks and the Russians stopped their attack)

 

edit: typo

 

Who said Bren Carriers look like T-34's? .. only you.    But they were present and part of lend lease on Eastern front

 

Same event, 26th Armour Brigade/4th Guards Motorized Brigade in that action consisted of 22 T-34, 15 T-70, 20 Universal carrier (+-)

 

But this is getting rather off topic now

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited November 12, 2015 by Dakpilot

[Brano]

Never heard about that Bolgograd city? Where can one find it?

[sunnyco75]

So Awesomeness! Love the MiG-3

[Dakpilot]

Belgorod 122 Km SSE from Kursk

 

Chees Dakpilot

[Brano]

Ah,it is Belgorod then. I was confused with Asgars Bolgograd   People should learn to type names correctly.

[Asgar]

Ah,it is Belgorod then. I was confused with Asgars Bolgograd   People should learn to type names correctly.

i don't have to learn to type. i simple repeated what was stated in my source

 

 

The Hs.129 became the first aircraft to completely stop an enemy armoured attack without any ground involvement when a squadron of them set about 26th Armored Brigade near Bolgograd, destroying eight of the thirty-four tanks.

Edited November 12, 2015 by I./ZG76Asgar

[Feathered_IV]

Big cannon, plane built around big cannon...

 

 

Nice picture that.  Thanks Lucas.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I agree with all you say, I just don't agree that Fairchild didn't look at earlier ground attack planes, of course they did, otherwise they wouldn't have been doing their job well (and they did).

 

Here is an article about the various inspirations of the A-10, primarily the StuKa and the Sturmovik: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/stuka-and-sturmovik-the-aircraft-that-inspired-the-a-10-8c8d885d61db

great read.. thnx

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Ah,it is Belgorod then. I was confused with Asgars Bolgograd   People should learn to type names correctly.

 

Yeah, kind of like going to the "Reich" for business.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Nice picture that.  Thanks Lucas.

You're welcome A little tip I use when looking for good Eastern Front photos: type the search in Russian, and use Yandex (here's the image search specifically: https://yandex.ru/images/search)The easiest way is just get Google Translate to word the query for you if you don't know Russian, then just sit back and enjoy ( Yak-1, for example).