Stall ( pre-stall ) shaking almost nill...

[Guest deleted@50488]

This is one of the aspects I really think Il2 BoS could get a bit of fine tuning.

 

Specially on aircraft known to give good "announcement" of imminent stall, with noticeable buffeting, like the P40E, and the 109s, I see practically, if any at all, such buffeting and the aircraft stalls without giving any hint of shaking...

 

Yes I do not use a FFB joystick, but it should be visually simulated too, right ?

Edited November 3, 2015 by JCOMM

[Sandhill]

Agreed, and you're not missing anything from FFB...shaking does not seem to be implemented right now, even though the force of shaking is adjustable in Setup.

[andyw248]

Admittedly a Bonanza is a far cry from the fighters that we fly in BoS and has a V-tail, but there isn't any shaking for sure - it just slides away:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2GJRShJEY

 

I do remember buffeting from flying gliders back then, and I think a Cessna will buffet too (because the slipstream from its high wings will hit the elevators). I guess it really depends on the aircraft whether is shakes or not before stalling.

[Finkeren]

Right now the best indicator that a stall is imminent in most planes os the sound of the air flow.

 

I do seem to get very slight buffetting in some aircraft, but not all.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Most gliders I fly IRL do have considerable buffet, but truth is, and we can find it in many references on test flights of Me109s, and even the P40E, that the pre-stall did give good signs due to the associated shaking.

 

It's probably a compromise in terms of graphical performance, but I would lie to see it modeled in Il2 BoS too.

[=LD=Penshoon]

Agreed, and you're not missing anything from FFB...shaking does not seem to be implemented right now, even though the force of shaking is adjustable in Setup.

Weird, I'm using a g940 and my elevators buffets a lot when approaching an accelerated stall. Feels very nice and the shaking increases in intensity the more you pull until you stall. 

[Guest deleted@50488]

Weird, I'm using a g940 and my elevators buffets a lot when approaching an accelerated stall. Feels very nice and the shaking increases in intensity the more you pull until you stall. 

I would really love to have such an experience :-/

 

But try with a power off stall, aggressive or not, and you'll find no sign of the pre-stall buffet, in any of the BoS aircraft...

 

Well, on the F4 there can be a slight hint of some shaking, but I don't know if it's the engine, so, most of my tests were performed with a dead engine, and making sure there was no weather turbulence set.

 

Regarding accelerated stalls, well, I have to be honest - sometimes it reminds me of the warbirds in MS FLIGHT... You can pull really hard without getting the consequences... Exceptions are, for instance, the Fw190, where that pitch down induced flick roll and subsequent irrecoverable flat spin are unique :-)

 

I really like Il2's flight and overall physics modelling, but I have to be honest that some aspects need attention in the future...

[=LD=Penshoon]

I would really love to have such an experience :-/

 

But try with a power off stall, aggressive or not, and you'll find no sign of the pre-stall buffet, in any of the BoS aircraft...

 

Well, on the F4 there can be a slight hint of some shaking, but I don't know if it's the engine, so, most of my tests were performed with a dead engine, and making sure there was no weather turbulence set.

 

Regarding accelerated stalls, well, I have to be honest - sometimes it reminds me of the warbirds in MS FLIGHT... You can pull really hard without getting the consequences... Exceptions are, for instance, the Fw190, where that pitch down induced flick roll and subsequent irrecoverable flat spin are unique :-)

 

I really like Il2's flight and overall physics modelling, but I have to be honest that some aspects need attention in the future...

Just tried a power off stall ingame and stick shakes like crazy when close and in the stall. Also noticed a lot of screen shake as well. Have you disabled head shake in the camera options? You get no screen shake in the stall with that option off.

[Dakpilot]

I think it is one of those  "Holy Grail" desires (and a very good one) to be able to simulate FFB effects in a non FFB "flightstick"

 

Personally I think most of the aileron/elevator "pre stall buffet ' being felt though the actual stick/control rather than the whole airframe

 

Anything that goes some way to simulate the forces that are felt is a good thing (if implemented correctly) and to be commended

 

It is very sad and probably a reflection on popularity of flight sim genre that there is no FFB stick in production, In Car racing sims the only wheels not to have FFB are toys for early/pre teens, even the budget wheels have very sophisticated FFB and the games which are considered arcade even provide for this compatibility

 

For more Sim biased Racing there is a huge selection going from $150  up to direct drive units costing many thousands of $

 

I guess the lack of FFB sticks is purely market driven with some history of 'patent issues' thrown in (MSFFB2 ran into this) to spoil our fun

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Guest deleted@50488]

Couldn't agree more Dakpilot.

 

I wish I could find a good MS FFB .... :-/

[=LD=Penshoon]

Couldn't agree more Dakpilot.

 

I wish I could find a good MS FFB .... :-/

I would recommend going straight for a used Logitech g940 stick if you want the best feedback in BOS. The more powerful motors means you can have a greater range of stiffness from completely limp stick when power off to rock solid when in a high dive compared to the MSFFB2 which is still very loose when at max stiffness. 

[Dakpilot]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmicrosoft+joystic.TRS0&_nkw=microsoft+joystick&_sacat=0

 

I don't know how Ebay or similar work but maybe it is possible to put an alert on searches?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

​

[=LD=Penshoon]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmicrosoft+joystic.TRS0&_nkw=microsoft+joystick&_sacat=0

 

I don't know how Ebay or similar work but maybe it is possible to put an alert on searches?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

​

Check user "mdalkowski" on ebay (http://www.ebay.de/usr/mdalkowski) He regularly sells repaired & refurbished MSFFB2s for a fair price. 

[Guest deleted@50488]

Thx a lot Penshoon and Dakpilot !!!

[Matt]

I bought two FFB2 from the Mdalkowski guy 5 years ago, one has been used for ~3 years now and the other one is in reserve but looks almost like new. So i could recommend the guy.

 

I was using my Warthog for BoS until recently, but since tried the FFB2 again (which i originally bought for RoF), i don't think i'll go back to the Warthog anytime soon. FFB in BoS is just as amazing as in RoF.

 

Also there are two different version of the FFB2 around. The older one with green light and a new one with red light. They also have different colored triggers, the old one has silver and the newer one has dark red trigger and on top of that, the new version has a rubberized grip, which is the reason why i prefer the older variant, which does have a normal plastic grip. But i guess that's subjective.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Matt

[303_Kwiatek]

I got Saitek Evo Force and stall buffeting in BOS is very rare and marginaly noticable.  It could be better done but maby it is not enought optimized for all FF sticks?

[Sokol1]

Is need don't forget that the last FFB driver was done be MS in ~2002/2003, or before...

Edited November 3, 2015 by Sokol1

[[CPT]milopugdog]

I'm wondering if this too is a feature in cinematic mode. I kept mine on, so I have motion blur, but my camera will also shake when a flak round explodes near my plane, or am close enough to a bomb that explodes. I haven't tested for shaking in a stall yet, but it could be the case.

[Sandhill]

Just tried a power off stall ingame and stick shakes like crazy when close and in the stall. Also noticed a lot of screen shake as well. Have you disabled head shake in the camera options? You get no screen shake in the stall with that option off.

 

 sorry to continue the off topic drift, but I get absolutely zero stick shake entering a power off stall with my MS Sidewinder FFB Pro, so good for you!!!     Going into an accelerated stall is about the same on the Sidewinder as on my CH fighterstick...as Finkeren says above, mostly just the sound and some screen vibration.  Power off stall, though, nada.  I also get zero stick shake rolling on the ground, while in RoF it is quite strong, which is why I thought perhaps stick shake was not implemented.

[=LD=Penshoon]

 sorry to continue the off topic drift, but I get absolutely zero stick shake entering a power off stall with my MS Sidewinder FFB Pro, so good for you!!!     Going into an accelerated stall is about the same on the Sidewinder as on my CH fighterstick...as Finkeren says above, mostly just the sound and some screen vibration.  Power off stall, though, nada.  I also get zero stick shake rolling on the ground, while in RoF it is quite strong, which is why I thought perhaps stick shake was not implemented.

Yeah I also don't get the stick shake effect while rolling on the ground but I don't know if it was realistic? Since last BoS patch If I go off the taxiway over the bumpy surface I can feel every time the tail slams into the ground after it hits a big bump. Below video was from a max speed dive at 100% shake setting (I use 10% with this stick) but you can see how much stronger the g940 is, even with a really stiff stick it can produce these powerful oscillation on the elevator axis. 

[Sokol1]

Fly Pe-2.

[Blutaar]

I dont know but the G940 is just crap in my opinion.

Last time i played with mine was the first time after purchase, that non FFB deadzone is just crap.

I bought it for DCS BS2 and its so bad when you let the stick go, you just cant do it or you nose down a bit and if you set a deadzone it will not move with the stick when you trim, it stays in the middle, so bad.

The umodded Trhottle is also bad, you move it forward and all is fine but when you throttle back it wont react and then jumps for 3% down, no fine throttle adjustments, its a driver issue.

Is the MS FFB2 the same with that non FFB deadzone?

Sorry for off topic.

[Sandhill]

Thanks for the video, Penshoon, I get nothing like that in a power off stall in a 109 or P40 with my Sidewinder.  Thank YOU, Sokol, you're right, the Pe-2 is like a different plane and makes my Sidewinder shake like mad as it stalls.  My sense is that stick shake is WIP in BoS as Penshoon gets none either on the runway, but it is interesting to see the difference in how the two sticks handle the 109 stall. 

[=LD=Penshoon]

I dont know but the G940 is just crap in my opinion.

Last time i played with mine was the first time after purchase, that non FFB deadzone is just crap.

I bought it for DCS BS2 and its so bad when you let the stick go, you just cant do it or you nose down a bit and if you set a deadzone it will not move with the stick when you trim, it stays in the middle, so bad.

The umodded Trhottle is also bad, you move it forward and all is fine but when you throttle back it wont react and then jumps for 3% down, no fine throttle adjustments, its a driver issue.

Is the MS FFB2 the same with that non FFB deadzone?

Sorry for off topic.

Yes the MSFFB2 definitely has a smaller ffb deadzone compared to the g940.

Did you try the updating the firmware of the g940 stick? Out of the box it was almost completely unusable but firmware 1.42 reduced this ffb deadzone by a fair bit at least for me. For prop planes I am never flying with stick in this zone anyway as I always keep pressure on the stick to counter torque and gravity 

Edited November 4, 2015 by =LD=Penshoon

[mb339pan]

Weird, I'm using a g940 and my elevators buffets a lot when approaching an accelerated stall. Feels very nice and the shaking increases in intensity the more you pull until you stall. 

idem

Edited November 4, 2015 by 150GCT_Pan

[Matt]

My sense is that stick shake is WIP in BoS as Penshoon gets none either on the runway, but it is interesting to see the difference in how the two sticks handle the 109 stall.

Why should you get FFB when on the ground? I'm very happy that it doesn't shake just because you're taxiing on bumpy terrain and I hope it stays that way.

 

Talking about shaking, I wish it wouldn't shake by firing the guns. At least regarding the rifle caliber machine guns, I highly doubt that you would feel that through the stick.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Matt

[Guest deleted@50488]

To all, thanks for the answers.

 

Maybe using a FFB joystick could help, but I still miss the visual effects resulting from pre-stall buffeting in many of the aircraft.

 

I think this should be made more evident in BoS / BoM.

[=LD=Penshoon]

I flew the p40 for a short bit yesterday and you are right it has no screen shake effect or stick buffet when stalling for me either, very little tendency to spin that plane even with huge amounts of elevator deflection.