Stuka flies forever...

[JG4_Sputnik]

Hi,

 

just made some tests with the Stuka to see how far I can push its engine. And it seams that it flies forever as long as you don't go over 2600rpm and about 1.4 ata even with oil cooler closed.

 

For example, if I close the oil cooler and fly with 2600rpm and about 1.3 ata I can fly forever, Oil goes up to 125° (!) and air cooler is fully open but goes also up to 115° (at 2k it shouldn't exceed 90° i guess) and then I can climb as long as I want on summer map without destroying my engine.

 

If I close water cooler and then wait for it to overheat (which happens at about 120°) also it seems that I just get the warning but nothing happens to the engine.

 

Only when I fly at 1.4 ata and over 2600rpm for longer than about a minute ("take off mode") the engine eventually dies but it seems that there's no other way to kill the engine with different setups. It's like the oil and water coolers have no effect on the engine whatsoever (other than moving the needle on the gauges).

 

This is of course full real and with no warmed engine.

This is very strange and I don't know if it is just after the new patch or not, since I didn't fly the Stuka for a long time.

 

Any experiences?

[mb339pan]

overheating of the motor does not mean seizure or instant damage!

an overheated engine loses power it breaks, it breaks if you inherent with those conditions

Edited October 31, 2015 by 150GCT_Pan

[JG4_Sputnik]

Yeah but the oil cooler has no function whatsoever. I just flew a whole mission with closed oil cooler and it had no effect at all.

 

Also I can't trim the Stuka with the wheel on my controller whereas with the 109 it works perfectly fine. In the Stuka when I turn the weel it only trims instantly to max position. So i need to use the keyboard for trimming. Has anyone else this issue`?

[Willy__]

Strange... Last time I took a stuka was on mp,  tried to climb with the humongous SC1800, but the engine overheated and got damaged while climbing, and iirc I was about 1.2 ata, 2300-2400rpm and it was on one of the new maps 

[Sokol1]

 

Also I can't trim the Stuka with the wheel on my controller whereas with the 109 it works perfectly fine. In the Stuka when I turn the weel it only trims instantly to max position. So i need to use the keyboard for trimming. Has anyone else this issue`?

 

 

The last to notice:   http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/18609-p-40-trim-joystick-rotary/?do=findComment&comment=292477

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sokol1

[JG4_Sputnik]

The last to notice:   http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/18609-p-40-trim-joystick-rotary/?do=findComment&comment=292477

 

I don't get it? I know that it hadn't been possible before the patch, but now it works on the 109 (which has a trim wheel) but not on the Stuka (which also has a trim wheel). That it doesnt work for the 190 ok because the Focke has buttons. But either for all trim wheels or for none...?

 

 

Strange... Last time I took a stuka was on mp,  tried to climb with the humongous SC1800, but the engine overheated and got damaged while climbing, and iirc I was about 1.2 ata, 2300-2400rpm and it was on one of the new maps 

 

Strange again, just tried those settings with the SC1800 @ 1.2 and 2450rpm, oil closed and water fully open - water rised to 115° and oil to 120°, no damage on the engine whatsoever.

Summer map, climbed from 1k - 3k.

[LukeFF]

 

 

I know that it hadn't been possible before the patch, but now it works on the 109 (which has a trim wheel) but not on the Stuka (which also has a trim wheel).

 

It's always been that way for the 109s and the C202. 

 

 

That it doesnt work for the 190 ok because the Focke has buttons. But either for all trim wheels or for none...?

 

Again...it's always been that way.   

[JG4_Sputnik]

It's always been that way for the 109s and the C202. 

 

 

 

Again...it's always been that way.   

 

Good decision then 

[Willy__]

About the overheating issue.... very strange indeed. 

 

About the trim... its only key mapping problems. Trim works fine on the stuka. I think the problem is that the trim for the ju87 shares the same key mapping as the other russians planes (or should I say that the 109 and the 190 are the exception?). Anyways, the trim on the stuka only works with buttons, same as the russian planes. I know the stuka has a trim wheel, but thats the way it is. For now, at least...

 

-edit-

Now that I'm thinking again, I had the same range of temperatures (115-120) on the russian machines, without damage to the engine aswell, maybe its something that not only affects the stuka ?

Edited October 31, 2015 by istruba

[JG4_Sputnik]

That indeed would be terrible...

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I filed this in the bug report section back in September.

 

Seems that it never got fixed.

 

Brief description: Engine overheat warning goes away on maps with warmer temperature settings

Detailed description, conditions: Setup a map with temperature at +19C at sea level. Tested a Yak1 and 109G2. Fly at 300m, close all radiators. Overheat warning appears (keep radiators closed, don't try to cool the plane), then disappears after about 30 seconds. Plane continues to fly with temperature gauge showing extreme temps for extended period of time (5 minutes?). Eventually the warning message for overheat re-appears, and unless radiators are then opened, engine damage will occur.

 

Easily reproducible.

 

[JG4_Sputnik]

So does that mean this only happens on summer maps`?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

That's what i found - yes.

 

If you can get hot enough, fast enough then you can trigger the bug.

Its tied to map temperature. I used the mission editor to make the winter Stalingrad map hot to see what the warmer weather did to the planes before we got the summer maps.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Tripwire

[GridiroN]

Maybe you individually have a bug or something...This has never been my experience. 

 

The Stuka has always been an EXTREMELY fragile plane in terms of managing it's engine, and it took me a significant amount of research to find the correct values to not break my engine literally a few seconds after take off. 

[LukeFF]

 

 

The Stuka has always been an EXTREMELY fragile plane in terms of managing it's engine, and it took me a significant amount of research to find the correct values to not break my engine literally a few seconds after take off.

 

The engine management parameters are right in the manual.  

[Cybermat47]

The engine management parameters are right in the manual.

 

Ah, that would explain why my engine keeps blowing up.

[JG4_Sputnik]

Maybe you individually have a bug or something...This has never been my experience. 

 

The Stuka has always been an EXTREMELY fragile plane in terms of managing it's engine, and it took me a significant amount of research to find the correct values to not break my engine literally a few seconds after take off. 

 

I don't think a "individual bug" in FM is even possible. How should that work?

 

Pleas do the follows: take a Stuka on the summer map and close its oil cooler.

Fly as long as you want with 2500-2600rpm and 1.3 ata. Tell me if your engine takes damage.

 

Do the same and close both coolers. Same set up. Tell me your engine can't handle 115°water at any alt or 125° oil at any alt. 

Thank you.

[Brano]

Summer Stalingrad QMB

take off from stand,full fuel and Satan under belly

keep 1.3ata and 2500rpm

after 6 min rpm and MP oscilates,engine smokes heavily.After 7min total seizure.

I kept oil closed and water fully opened.

 

EDIT

With both oil and water closed the result was more/less the same

PS: from startup of the engine to the full power at take off it was 4-5min of taxing so when I take it out from the overall time it was maybe 3-4min of flight at those engine settings

 

Total seizure comes a bit later when you manage to stay high enough,but it will eventualy come.Question of few minutes.In my case it was due to hitting the ground with smoking stuka and not enough lift.Satan knows why

Edited November 2, 2015 by Brano

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I defo noticed for most aircraft on the winter map you can fly around with the oil radiator closed and reasonably high power and rpm setting with no trouble!

 

Heck I didnt even know the 111 had an oil radiator until after flying it for a year

[Brano]

Without satan,both rads fully opened I managed to stay up there for a bit longer,Like 5 min,then heavy smoke from engine came and seizure was very quick,less then 1min.But at least I could get some decent altitude and jump out

[Brano]

I defo noticed for most aircraft on the winter map you can fly around with the oil radiator closed and reasonably high power and rpm setting with no trouble!

 

Heck I didnt even know the 111 had an oil radiator until after flying it for a year

Not with stuka at questioned settings.Same map but winter,smoking comes 2-3min after take off,complete seizure is matter of minutes.

[GridiroN]

The engine management parameters are right in the manual.

 

Some of us aren't clever enough to go read and translate a german manual for a plane from 1930's, you silly billy goat. 

 

I don't think a "individual bug" in FM is even possible. How should that work?

 

Pleas do the follows: take a Stuka on the summer map and close its oil cooler.

Fly as long as you want with 2500-2600rpm and 1.3 ata. Tell me if your engine takes damage.

 

Do the same and close both coolers. Same set up. Tell me your engine can't handle 115°water at any alt or 125° oil at any alt. 

Thank you.

 

Ill try it when I get home. 

[LukeFF]

Some of us aren't clever enough to go read and translate a german manual for a plane from 1930's

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16752-il-2bos-user-manual-released-first-edition-english/

Edited November 3, 2015 by LukeFF

[FuriousMeow]

I don't think a "individual bug" in FM is even possible. How should that work?

 

Pleas do the follows: take a Stuka on the summer map and close its oil cooler.

Fly as long as you want with 2500-2600rpm and 1.3 ata. Tell me if your engine takes damage.

 

Do the same and close both coolers. Same set up. Tell me your engine can't handle 115°water at any alt or 125° oil at any alt. 

Thank you

 

Yep it could handle it. No loadout, just 100% fuel. Summer map. Both closed. Took off level and stayed close to deck. Ran at 2600rpm, 1.3ATA. Needles started flipping 4 minutes in. Oil starting to build up on the windscreen. That's when it couldn't handle it anymore.

 

With oil rad wide open, and water rad closed, I managed to go about double the time before the engine went.

Edited November 3, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

And tested the other way. 1.3 ATA, 2600RPM, oil radiator closed and water radiator full open. 8 minutes in, engine starts smoking followed shortly by gauges indicating impending engine failure.

[JG4_Sputnik]

And tested the other way. 1.3 ATA, 2600RPM, oil radiator closed and water radiator full open. 8 minutes in, engine starts smoking followed shortly by gauges indicating impending engine failure.

Can't believe, but ok. Do you remember what temperature your oil and water had when your engine died?

[FuriousMeow]

Can't believe, but ok. Do you remember what temperature your oil and water had when your engine died?

 

Can't believe? You have several people telling you this. You can see the temperatures in the last screenshot below.

 

It wasn't above what you are getting for engine temps. Are you sure on your game settings?

 

I just re-ran it, Closed the oil radiator and left water full open. Ran at 1.3ATA and 2600RPM.

 

Start of mission:

 

Engine burns out:

 

The clock is visible, about 7 minutes of flight time.

Edited November 4, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[Brano]

If one is running jumo at such settings = veeeery close to Notleistung,one will blow the engine no matter the temperature of liquids in the system is.Thats why manual says Notleistung max 30 sec and that other one (climb?) max 30 min.

Im not an expert on jumo engines,but I remember daimler (605?) had the problem of piston burn-thru when abused with high ATA/rpm.They solved it to some extent with reinforcing critical components.It is maybe also the case of jumo.

[JG4_Sputnik]

Can't believe? You have several people telling you this. You can see the temperatures in the last screenshot below.

 

It wasn't above what you are getting for engine temps. Are you sure on your game settings?

 

I just re-ran it, Closed the oil radiator and left water full open. Ran at 1.3ATA and 2600RPM.

 

Start of mission:

Stuka_Engine_Burn_Start.jpg

 

Engine burns out:

Stuka_Engine_Burn_End.jpg

 

The clock is visible, about 7 minutes of flight time.

Sure i do believe - but I mean I can't believe

 

 

I flew now several missions without even touching the Oil cooler.

 

 

So what you are saying is that everything is normal with your temperature, oil and water?

 

What I'm saying is that of course you can crush the engine but I think it doesn't have something to do with the temperatures in specific rather than with rpm and ata. I can fly on way too high temperatures without killing the engine by keeping rpm not too high (maybe it was more 2500ish). 

 

It concernes me and eases me at the same time that I don't get the same results as you do.

Also Tripwire says above that when he flies on Summer maps or increases the winter map temps the temperatures of other aircraft can as well go way too high, so maybe somethings fishy here after all.

 

Sounds like I'm gonna do some further testing as soon as I get to it.