VYa-23 and ShVAK in the LaGG 3

[Libel]

Hi guys, quick musing:

Would there be any difference in weight on the mountings between these two, and does it have any effect on performance? I've had a play with it, but can't see a noticeable difference.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The ShVAK weights some 40kg if I remember correctly while the VYa-23 is closer to 70kg or so. These are their empty weights. Then you need to factor in that the ShVAK allows for nearly twice as many rounds as the VYa-23, and consider how lighter are the 20mm shells compared to the 23mm ones. In short I have no idea of the final result, but these are the factors to be accounted

[Finkeren]

When you select a field mod in the sim, you can see how much extra weight it puts on, when you mouse over the selection IIRC.

 

The difference between the ShVAK and the VYa-23 is neglible I think.

[JtD]

Should be around 30kg or ~1% of the aircraft weight or ~10% of the fuel fuel load. Not much.

[MarcoRossolini]

Love the 23mm on the Lagg, don't leave the airfield without it, in the early days of the dogfighting on multiplayer a single shell could do serious or fatal damage to a 109, and its RoF is excellent.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

23 is a beast 37 is a waste of time Imo

[Willy__]

37 is a waste of time Imo

 

Its a nice tankbuster   

Edited October 24, 2015 by istruba

[Trinkof]

Its a nice tankbuster

23 also

[Libel]

Yeah, I found that the difference was negligible. According to my research, the ShVAK 20mm is about 20kg lighter, and each individual VYa-23 23mm shell weighs almost 2x as much as a 20mm shell due to higher powder load, but as the total ammo count is lower, it basically balances the weights. 

 

Was wondering if anyone else had anything to add to that.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

With the 23 you can choose all HE loadout, useful for bringing down bombers, ShVAK you can't choose.

[Finkeren]

With the 23 you can choose all HE loadout, useful for bringing down bombers, ShVAK you can't choose.

Actually I think most people agree, that AP ammo is more effective for bringing down aircraft of all kinds, because it kills engines almost every time.

 

HE is best for soft ground tagets.

 

Btw: On the La-5 you can choose full AP or HE loadouts for the ShVAKs.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Finkeren

[Willy__]

@Fink:

 

It really depends. The 23mm with HE ammo causes catastrophic damage with very few shells, meanwhile if I choose either only AP or HE for the la5 I have trouble shooting down airplanes, at least in my experience. I would take the mixed ammo for the la5 if you plan taking on planes.

[Libel]

I find that when fighting Stukas, the HE will happily snap wings and cause major airframe damage, whereas the AP tends to overpenetrate and not do much unless you hit something major.

[Finkeren]

It might be a personal preference. I just get a feeling, that when I use all-AP every single salvo that hits means either pilot kill or serious engine damage that will pretty much win the fight for you, which I honestly prefer to the odd chance of blowing off a wing with HE.

 

A small video I did a while back to prove another point:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQINqnPBij0

 

I used all-AP on the VYa-23 and did fatal damage to four He 111s in a row with very few hits.

[Brano]

Both ShVAK and MG151/20 were rechambers from their HMG predecessors = larger projectile but still HMG case with same amount of propellant.

VYa was a brand new design of 23mm cannon with its respective ammo.

[Beagah]

Related question about AP versus HE, which 30mm round the germans used more on the ME 262?

[Finkeren]

Related question about AP versus HE, which 30mm round the germans used more on the ME 262?

 

There were AP rounds developed for the MK 108, I think, but I don't think they were used much operationally. The muzzle velocity of the MK 108 is pretty bad, so an AP round wouldn't be very effective, you'd get much better penetration from a 15mm MG 151. 

 

In action I think the MK 108-equipped planes used a combination of Minengeschoss (which is about the purest form of an HE-shell you can imagine short of just firing a solid piece of PETN) and HE-incendiary.

 

The 30mm Minengeschoss rounds did the job well enough without much penetrating capability. This is the result, when the British tested a single shot from the gun on an old Spitfire airframe: