So... what can a poor pilot really do with the P-40E...

[Guest deleted@50488]

other than being easily shot down by any opponent ?

 

I spent yesterday's afternoon trying to find a tactic for online dogfights, but it is useless - either my fault, the P-40's fault, or both....

 

I guess it could be usefull to atack bombers, and ground targets, but once ** any ** of the Axis fighers gets near you, you'd ( at least I'm ... ) better bail out :-/

 

Any suggestions really welcomed

[SR-F_Winger]

other than being easily shot down by any opponent ?

 

I spent yesterday's afternoon trying to find a tactic for online dogfights, but it is useless - either my fault, the P-40's fault, or both....

 

I guess it could be usefull to atack bombers, and ground targets, but once ** any ** of the Axis fighers gets near you, you'd ( at least I'm ... ) better bail out :-/

 

Any suggestions really welcomed

Now you know what germans think when a UFO 1 is behind them:P

Guess you gotta live with it.

 

*kidding* and seriously i have no clue. I heard diving is her discipline. Hope to hide in a cloud and dive for one maybe?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Winger

[Finkeren]

Against fighters, in a situation where you don't have substantial energy advantage? Not much, you're royally screwed. You could try hugging the ground and hope the opponent is stupid enough to follow you down and chase you around rather than assassinate you from above. In that case you can try forcing an overshoot or out-scissor your opponent, but chances are slim.

 

In a situation where you have the advantage. I'll advise one simple thing: Win quickly. As opposed to most other fighters, don't try to hold on to your advantage, you'll lose it soon anyway. Better to go all in and deliver a fatal blow with your superior firepower and agility.

[Wulf]

I had a few flights with it online and was shot down almost immediately so I have no idea either.  If you don't get any helpful suggestions here on the forum I can only suggest you work with it in  SP and see if you can come up with something that maybe translates to online warfare. 

 

Also, I think it probable the devs will tinker with it over time so check it out after every update.  You may find the FM gets massaged a bit.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Wulf

[Reflected]

It's a brilliant ground attack plane, just stay low and unnoticed. Alternatively, you can spend 30 minutes climbing to 5-6000m, and patrol target areas and intercept bombers.

 

Once they attack you, DIVE! hug the ground, go between the trees and buildings, do scissors, force him to make a mistake. That's your only chance, if you are alone.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Ok guys, thx for your replies,

 

I just though I could use it somehow how I've used the p51d in another sim, where against the K4 and D9 and can still score some wins, but now that I've been searching, they're really so different....

[LittleJP]

You have a fancy eject button shortcut..

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Basically its a one dive attack then run fighter. Personally even that role its rubish as u will spend the best part of a year climbing just to find when you get to the target area there will be a pesky 109 1000m above.

 

Personally against bos plane set I do not see it as a fighter at all but a quick ground attack plane that has a small but quite powerful load out.

 

Good for one pass haul ass

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Basically its a one dive attack then run fighter. Personally even that role its rubish as u will spend the best part of a year climbing just to find when you get to the target area there will be a pesky 109 1000m above.

 

Personally against bos plane set I do not see it as a fighter at all but a quick ground attack plane that has a small but quite powerful load out.

 

Good for one pass haul ass

I ended up shooting down a 109 in mine yesterday, but then I got shot down by a 190 when I was heading back to base.

It seems alright at killing people who tunnel vision

[JtD]

In real life, you'd firewall the engine to 60" or 70" HG and get the heck outta there. You'd have the mechanics sort the engine out after rtb, but you'd rtb.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I ended up shooting down a 109 in mine yesterday, but then I got shot down by a 190 when I was heading back to base.

It seems alright at killing people who tunnel vision

Yeah I can shoot down people in my pe2 or Stuka if they are not careful. This does not make them good fighters Edited October 19, 2015 by [TBC]AeroACE

[SR-F_Winger]

Ah one thing came to my mind.

Training, training, training. Many planes, just like in ROF also here in BOS take really some time of practice until you know the real strangths and how to push the plane to the limits.

In ROF it took me ages to become decent in the Fokker DR1. But it was really rewarding. Here in BOS its the FW 190 that takes quite some time to fly right.

By no means I am saying that i do anything right - i am getitng shot down on a regular basis:) But really staying with it and flying a plane for an extendet period can reveal strengths that at the beginning noone was dreaming of. I remember the Sopwith Camel in ROF. At the beginning people stalled themselves to death all the time. Later on it became the deadliest allied plane in the sim (at least when i still flew active wich is quite a while ago).

Edited October 19, 2015 by Winger

[303_Kwiatek]

So it looks that P-40 is quite accurate modeled? Only thing it could do what i read was turn rate against German planes but not so much. It should have good dive characteristic, good roll rate and firepower.  Hard to tell actually tactics casue i dont have BOM but in old Il2 P-40 was one of my favourite plane to fights againt 109 F-4 and G version  -  it had little better turn rate and good roll rate -   it was sucsefull in scissors manovers and sometimes in turn fight.  

 

Pity that some russian planes wasn't modeled with the same idea  -  historical realism.   I think if russian planes in BOS was modeled more accurately ( La5/LAgg3 - worse roll rate,  lower maximum safe dive speeds for all,  Yak-1/Lagg-3 too good performacne at high alts, and Yak1 flapscopter)  P-40 would be not so bad chooice in such case.  But now comparing to them is just joke suposly.

[LukeFF]

 

 

Pity that some russian planes wasn't modeled with the same idea  -  historical realism.   I think if russian planes in BOS was modeled more accurately ( La5/LAgg3 - worse roll rate,  lower maximum safe dive speeds for all,  Yak-1/Lagg-3 too good performacne at high alts, and Yak1 flapscopter)  P-40 would be not so bad chooice in such case.  But now comparing to them is just joke suposly.

 

Would it kill you to go one post without making yet another complaint about the flight models? 

[303_Kwiatek]

Nope if you some day understand what is really doing here and why some things in BOS world are like they are   but maby you already know these

Edited October 19, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Would it kill you to go one post without making yet another complaint about the flight models? 

 

Though I don't disagree that it comes across a little spammy and off-topic in some threads, I do agree that some of the modeling choices don't make sense to me or don't correlate with the majority of the documentary and *gasp* anecdotal sources I have seen. However, this isn't the appropriate subforum so just take that as an aside.

 

To OP: I think the P-40 on the Eastern Front shines the brightest at a role that isn't the best represented in this sim - direct infantry support. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[Toxin1]

I really love the P-40E, but you should expect to be shot down 95% of the time if you go mano-a-mano with F-4, G-2 or even 190-A flown to their strengths. If you have a wingman, then your chances of survival go up and you may even get some kills.  To fight and succeed in this bird you need to be in a flight with superior numbers or get really good at a single diving attack on a lower energy opponent before you get out of Dodge.

[Y-29.Silky]

other than being easily shot down by any opponent ?

 

Listen to the USAAF fanboy who doesn't get shot down 95% of the time in the P-40  

You don't need superior numbers, you just need superior judgement along with superior aggressiveness (goes for every fighter).

But first, circle around your airfield (granted the German's aren't already 6000m over it) or any safe route and climb up to 4-5000m, then auto-level to the AO. You'll have altitude and energy by the time you get there and will have 109 pilots crapping themselves trying to out turn you when you're coming out of a dive.

If you don't kill him on your first dive, like most US fighters, you only have 2-3 turns (where you will be able to cut inside their turn) before you'll lose the energy advantage to the enemies favor. 

[VBF-12_Stele]

Wingmen make all the difference. One on one dogfighting will take you so far with the P-40, but high energy wingman tactics will take you a lot further.

[Brano]

Its place is in north africa as close support bomber and against italians (it can handle quite well against MC202) and in burma/pacific.There it can fight on better terms with japanese nimble,but generaly slower aircrafts.For eastern front,it is good for PVO units to escort ''duglas'' with soviet governement officials from Moscow to Kuybyshev.And navy,due to its action radius.Thats why it was also used mostly there.Another advantage is the one that we,armchair pilots,cant appriciate much.Better radio then soviet planes,more comfortable and spacious cockpit etc.Ergonomics make lots of difference in everyday usage of any machine.And be no means it is a lone wolf fighter 

[smink1701]

Pray

[Ace_Pilto]

Wingmen make all the difference. One on one dogfighting will take you so far with the P-40, but high energy wingman tactics will take you a lot further.

 

^^^This^^^

 

Never leave home without one.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Wingmen, that's it !

 

Two friends have long been trying to get me into TS and starting some real teamwork, instead of the usual 1 x all "strategy"... One flies VVS, the other Axis.  

 

I have no particular ideological preferences, so, I can fly both sides, and would love to add to it Japanese fighters, and some RAF too, but I confess that in terms of feeling secure, the Bf109s are my choice, while in terms of really liking to fly it, I don't know why, but both the LaGg3 and the Fw190 are more or less on pair, and the Yak-1 comes next.

 

The P-40E was supposed to be my next toy, but... just for flying circuits and a few aerobatics...

[Falco_Peregrinus]

Its place is in north africa as close support bomber and against italians (it can handle quite well against MC202) and in burma/pacific.There it can fight on better terms with japanese nimble,but generaly slower aircrafts.For eastern front,it is good for PVO units to escort ''duglas'' with soviet governement officials from Moscow to Kuybyshev.And navy,due to its action radius.Thats why it was also used mostly there.Another advantage is the one that we,armchair pilots,cant appriciate much.Better radio then soviet planes,more comfortable and spacious cockpit etc.Ergonomics make lots of difference in everyday usage of any machine.And be no means it is a lone wolf fighter 

 

C'mon... The 202 was much superior to the P40 in every aspect but firepower.  

 

As one RAF pilot remembered:

 

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts had the Italians pressed home their attacks. The odd pilot proved that the 202 was capable of mixing it in a dogfight - out-turning our P-40s with ease; but the majority would pull away effortlessly into a climbing roll or a roll off the top when things became at all hectic. There is nothing more exasperating, when you are caning fifty-four inches of boost out of an engine, than to see your enemy indulge in carefree aerobatics; but although we did our damnedest to get near enough to shoot at them,we seldom succeeded. Their aircraft was superior to ours on all counts. No wonder we wanted to fly one." (Squadron Leader D.H. Clarke, D.F.C, A.F.C  book "What were they like to fly")

 

Even the Macchi 200 was considered an almost equal opponent, bar speed and firepower, go figure.

Against G.50 and CR42 it was of course better. 

 

I love the P40E for its uniqueness and sturdy construction. It may not be the best of fighters, but it's a joy to pilot and to look at.

[Finkeren]

I have strong ideological preferences, when it comes to WW2, I hope most people have, but it has absolutely no bearing on which sides I fly for.

 

I like the VVS because it's the story of the underdog slowly rising up at tremendous costs. Plus, I really, really like the rough designs and brutish functionality of many of the aircraft.

 

I like the Luftwaffe for its intensely beautiful designs and engineering wonders. I will propably fly for them more, when we (hopefully) get the Eastern Front anno 1943/44 represented in this sim. Right now it's just not as fun.

 

Politics doesn't enter into the equation.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Finkeren

[Y-29.SugaBizkit]

C'mon... The 202 was much superior to the P40 in every aspect but firepower.  

 

As one RAF pilot remembered:

 

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts had the Italians pressed home their attacks. The odd pilot proved that the 202 was capable of mixing it in a dogfight - out-turning our P-40s with ease; but the majority would pull away effortlessly into a climbing roll or a roll off the top when things became at all hectic. There is nothing more exasperating, when you are caning fifty-four inches of boost out of an engine, than to see your enemy indulge in carefree aerobatics; but although we did our damnedest to get near enough to shoot at them,we seldom succeeded. Their aircraft was superior to ours on all counts. No wonder we wanted to fly one." (Squadron Leader D.H. Clarke, D.F.C, A.F.C  book "What were they like to fly")

 

Even the Macchi 200 was considered an almost equal opponent, bar speed and firepower, go figure.

Against G.50 and CR42 it was of course better. 

 

I love the P40E for its uniqueness and sturdy construction. It may not be the best of fighters, but it's a joy to pilot and to look at.

 

 

I don't think he ever said it was better than the 202. However the limited strengths of the p-40 actually gave it a chance against machis, where as f4's just literally did everything that the p40 did better.

[Wulf]

I have strong ideological preferences, when it comes to WW2, I hope most people have, but it has absolutely no bearing on which sides I fly for.

 

I like the VVS because it's the story of the underdog slowly rising up at tremendous costs. Plus, I really, really like the rough designs and brutish functionality of many of the aircraft.

 

I like the Luftwaffe for its intensely beautiful designs and engineering wonders. I will propably fly for them more, when we (hopefully) get the Eastern Front anno 1943/44 represented in this sim. Right now it's just not as fun.

 

Politics doesn't enter into the equation.

 

 

Is this by any chance the same "underdog" that fought for the regime that, in partnership with the Nazis, eradicated the Polish state in September '39 and then participated in yet another war of aggression, this time against Finland later the same year?  A war that, according to Khrushchev,  may well have cost the Soviets in the order of 1 million casualties. Is that the "underdog" you're talking about?

Edited October 20, 2015 by Wulf

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Ideally, don't fly alone .... I do realize that grouping with anyone is NOT easy for many but flying alone in any aircraft is almost a death wish. And as mentioned above, learn and know your aircrafts limitations and qualities (if any).

 

Chief

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Wulf, one can write paragraphs and paragraphs about this and still not get to a proper conclusion so I'd suggest everyone stays out of this hornet's nest (On that note though, Khruschev is just about the least reliable source for anything other than corn - the Soviets had opened a corridor to Helsinki after Voroshilov was removed from command and replaced with Timoshenko; it was the Munich peace agreement which stopped them, where Finland conceded territory to the Soviets. Voroshilov was no match against excellent and very determined Finnish defence.)

 

In the first half of the 20th century (and at just about any given time) no state was a saint, factually speaking.

 

Back to the thread, the Soviet pilots were caught off-guard, before they could ever get their war preparations right, fighting a technically, tactically and many times numerically superior enemy which was advancing to the heart of their homeland wrecking everything in the process despite a very, very fierce Soviet opposition. That is being the underdog.

About the P-40, you can try to look for material written about Il-2:1946. The flight model and other aspects are obviously similar, but tactical advice should work just fine. Considering the P-40 has been around for that series ever since 2002 if I remember correctly, as you can imagine there are heaps of information written over the years so try skimming through that

[Jade_Monkey]

I had no experience with the p40 from other games and I didnt know what to expect.

 

What a disappointment, this handles like a dog! such a slow plane

 

The 6x50 cals are nice but kinda useless if the plane cant catch up to the enemy. 

[Bearcat]

Is this by any chance the same "underdog" that fought for the regime that, in partnership with the Nazis, eradicated the Polish state in September '39 and then participated in yet another war of aggression, this time against Finland later the same year?  A war that, according to Khrushchev,  may well have cost the Soviets in the order of 1 million casualties. Is that the "underdog" you're talking about?

 

 

Wulf, one can write paragraphs and paragraphs about this and still not get to a proper conclusion so I'd suggest everyone stays out of this hornet's nest (On that note though, Khruschev is just about the least reliable source for anything other than corn - the Soviets had opened a corridor to Helsinki after Voroshilov was removed from command and replaced with Timoshenko; it was the Munich peace agreement which stopped them, where Finland conceded territory to the Soviets. Voroshilov was no match against excellent and very determined Finnish defence.)

 

In the first half of the 20th century (and at just about any given time) no state was a saint, factually speaking.

 

Back to the thread, the Soviet pilots were caught off-guard, before they could ever get their war preparations right, fighting a technically, tactically and many times numerically superior enemy which was advancing to the heart of their homeland wrecking everything in the process despite a very, very fierce Soviet opposition. That is being the underdog.

About the P-40, you can try to look for material written about Il-2:1946. The flight model and other aspects are obviously similar, but tactical advice should work just fine. Considering the P-40 has been around for that series ever since 2002 if I remember correctly, as you can imagine there are heaps of information written over the years so try skimming through that

 

 

Yes.... Let's just drop that line of discussion. Anything after this will be edited.

[Sokol1]

Use to kill tanks, putting that .50 in his underbelly. 

[Venturi]

You got it... 

 

In real life, you'd firewall the engine to 60" or 70" HG and get the heck outta there. You'd have the mechanics sort the engine out after rtb, but you'd rtb.

[Venturi]

The P40 was really a 1940-1941 aircraft, and the E version added nothing really performance-wise. It was at it's best in the C through D variants (Tomahawk/Kittyhawk, in Brit use) against the 109e4 & 7 in N. Africa, where they were superior to hurricanes and were the elite model for fighter work used by the Brits.

 

Again, the fact that the engine could be, and was, pushed to high manifold pressures (over 55" boost) during a sortie should play a role here, considering the USSRs really mediocre consideration of the performance of the plane - guaranteed that her pilots certainly pushed those Allisons hard (and reportedly, they could take it much better than other engines).

Edited October 21, 2015 by Venturi

[ShamrockOneFive]

It's a specialists fighter. You probably won't fly it for the performance but for the looks, reputation of being a tough plane, and for the boom (if not zoom) potential. It's a ton of fun to fly but up against the Bf109F-4 and G-2 its a little lacklustre in outright performance.

 

Things will be a little more even when up against the Bf109E-7 than they are against the F-4/G-2 combo.

 

Also it makes a very good fighter-bomber.

[Alkyan]

Its performances are quite bad but what really frustrate me it's its instability. I can't aim as precisely as with any other plane.. Even at high speed the plane seems very sensible.

It's frustrating in mp where I miss most of the snap shots. Even when Im in someone 6 I end up spraying 50 cal all over the place

[Livai]

Something is wrong, not sure what. But the new tactics from Bf-109 pilots to use his own aircraft propeller to cut through P-40 parts without damage on his own aircraft propeller is just  ! With this new tactics it is really hard to say what helps to be a better P-40 pilot?

 

Watch the video from 6:50 to 7:15

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RK-VTVztzQ

Edited October 21, 2015 by Superghostboy

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

Jcomm climbing is not the best discipline from the P40, you should know it after the words I give up

Most successful P40 attacks on fighters was to climb outside of range, like la5 pilots do it, then go in hunt a enemy down of your choice with altitude advantage  and keep some rest altitude to dive down and evade with the good diving speed.

But have also noticed this not the most successful fighter for attacks, and the tactic is somewhat boring the most time of lacking climb speed. 

[Guest deleted@50488]

Yep MAD-MM, tried that as well, and failed miserably twice :-(

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

Possible you should stay back little bit before BOM introduction, more slower enemy's like e7 and 110. 

Before you get the p40 back to the air, that's is only frustrating then.

But this other simulation get also p40, fighting k4's Doras should be easier