Taffelman Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Expect the IS-3 Only the IS-3 isn't really realistically within in the scope of WWII. The first operational IS-3's found their way to Soviet tank detachments in may 1945, so it wouldn't been very realistic to put them in a WWII game to begin with. That's the problem with many WWII games today. They don't care about rarity at all. That's what I loved about Combat Mission. Everything people hear about and want to play themselves is the big powerful machines, but from a realistic standpoint they didn't win the war. It wasn't the IS-2, the Pershing or the King Tiger that won battles. It was the Pzkw IV, the StuG, the T-34 and the Shermans. When I see a "wargame" where the players are outfitted with IS-2's, King Tigers and Jagdtigers I immediately shrug it off as unrealistic nonsense. Give us a game where you have a forcepool. Then you have to choose wheather you want to go for broke with a Tiger or use 3x PzkwIV's, wheather you want an IS-2 or 5 T-34's. Let there also be a set maximum of those big flashy tanks. Sometimes you'll be able to drive one, sometimes you don't. You'll even enjoy it more when you do. Those big machines should be a joker in a battle, but it's the quantities of "good-enough" tanks that will win or loose the battle.
Georgio Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Regarding numbers, chucking in a few AI to make up the sides might work. They should look at whatever method Planetside 2 uses to get hundreds of players into their massive firefights and utilise it for BoS.
MikeDitka Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 whatever method Planetside 2 uses to get hundreds of players into their massive firefights Pure speculation here, but I'm guessing it's related to having a roughly 1km view distance in PS2.
McDaniel Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 I love the idea with the tanks....keep pushing :-)
Livai Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Glad to hear you call it a "wrinkle to gameplay". That tells me, you've not lost focus and taken the game in an entirely new direction. ---> How about the time patroller from the future? Thats a entirely new direction where I can go through the time with a driveable Mechwarrior tank??? Screenshots where made to show that this tank appear on the maps armed with deadly weapons ready for everything. My favorite tank btw to play him. ---> Never known a over 4 pages thread about my favorite tank. ---> I see the new way of gameplay! To hide with a tank invisible covered by a forest near the enemy airfiield waiting for planes that spam here.
migmadmarine Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 I expect the tank spawns will mostly be quite some distance from the forward airfields, so if you want to drive an hour to maybe reach an airfield, and likely run out of gas on the way, good on you I suppose...
71st_AH_Hooves Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 It would really be up to the map maker. He could have spawns close or far. If it were me I'd do some testing, find out the average commute time of the aircraft to the fight, get the average speed of the tanks, do some math and build in the spawns about that far away from an objective. As I said before i may decide to build a tank only map. See how fun that can be. It really comes down to if we can lead other tanks, how well they follow and the average speed. Also if they can be multi crewed or not.
BlitzPig_EL Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Seeing that the operating range of a T34/76 is 400km, I doubt you will see them run out of fuel in one hour, especially if using roads, where they can run a top speed of 53kph.
Brano Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Seeing that the operating range of a T34/76 is 400km, I doubt you will see them run out of fuel in one hour, especially if using roads, where they can run a top speed of 53kph. You have to keep speed limit at least in villages As a sidenote. IS-2 was not a rarity.As a main ''break-thru'' tank it was used in every major operation from early 1944 till the end of the war in Berlin.It was kept in reserves in Russia till mid 1990s.And it was most mass produced heavy tank of WW2.Its production volume almost equals overall japanese tank production thru entire war
Taffelman Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 You have to keep speed limit at least in villages As a sidenote. IS-2 was not a rarity.As a main ''break-thru'' tank it was used in every major operation from early 1944 till the end of the war in Berlin.It was kept in reserves in Russia till mid 1990s.And it was most mass produced heavy tank of WW2.Its production volume almost equals overall japanese tank production thru entire war Production numbers in WWII: Soviet Union: IS-2 - 3,854 T-34 - 34,780 T-34/85 - 22,559 Germany: Pzkw III - 15,747 Pzkw IV - 13,522 Panther - 6,557 Tiger - 1,368 This means - to me at least - that you would occasionally find the odd Tiger or IS-2 in battles. They should probably be simulated for the sake of realism, but on the other hand they shouldn't be overplayed either. Battles were fought and won by "good enough" medium tanks. There are records however of battles where they amassed the heavy hitters, eg Kursk, Battle of the Bulge and so on. Some SS detachments also had a higher count of the rare monstertanks than others, which I'm sure was also true on the Soviet side with certain Guard regiments (?). I believe 1C is very smart to concentrate on an isolated battle at the time, just like they did in CLoD, BoS and now BoM. It's easier to keep it realistic and they can research the Order of Battle much more in-depth. Put a rarity limitation on battles so we won't see a totally unrealistic battle with only Tigers, IS-2's, Panthers and what not. The few that will get to use one of these monters will feel very powerful and the opposition will have to be careful, try to encircle, lure him into a trap or just bypass it altogether - just like it was. It's hard to make a WWII game for a grognard, I know, but it can be done. 1C has done so over many years already.
=362nd_FS=RoflSeal Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) No usually you would find the IS-2/Tiger concentrated in key regions of the front for either breakthrough or held in reserve to be used as counter attacks/plugging the gap Splitting them up in penny packets would rarely be done. We don't really have to worry about this sort of stuff currently since this is Stalingrad so its mainly Pz III and IV vs T-34 and KV 1 + lots of obsolete tanks on both sides. Edited October 22, 2015 by RoflSeal
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Stalingrad and Moscow will be the classic Panzer vs T-34 playground, looking forward to that. The IS-2 itself was concentrated in the Shock Armies for breakthrough IIRC.
Feathered_IV Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 I expect the tank spawns will mostly be quite some distance from the forward airfields, so if you want to drive an hour to maybe reach an airfield, and likely run out of gas on the way, good on you I suppose... Make the Ju-52 flyable and I'll bring you enough fuel to get you there.
Fliegel Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Seeing that the operating range of a T34/76 is 400km, I doubt you will see them run out of fuel in one hour, especially if using roads, where they can run a top speed of 53kph. By S. Zaloga it's 34 km/h top speed on road, 18 km/h cruising speed and 16-25 km/m off road. Not mention that T-34 steer by simply blocking one track and lost a lot of speed doing that. So I think that airfield attack would be several hours mission ended by AA 88mm :-)
II./JG77_Manu* Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 So I think that airfield attack would be several hours mission ended by AA 88mm :-) Doesn't have to be like that. They can also make you take control over an AI tank any time, same like it is with the gunners right now
=362nd_FS=RoflSeal Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 By S. Zaloga it's 34 km/h top speed on road, 18 km/h cruising speed and 16-25 km/m off road. Not mention that T-34 steer by simply blocking one track and lost a lot of speed doing that. So I think that airfield attack would be several hours mission ended by AA 88mm :-) Same as Panzer IV and Panzer III. All 3 used Clutch-Brake steering
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 The Panzer IV and III used an additional steering system that applyed more power on one track than the other as far as I know. Similar systems were used on the SdKfz 251s and other halftracks.
Fliegel Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Same as Panzer IV and Panzer III. All 3 used Clutch-Brake steeringThat's true. I just react on post about T-34 and since not all tanks had this (and it's different to cars people are used to) I think it's worth to mention it. Sure that a ride to opposite direction would end the same. Edited October 22, 2015 by Fliegel_CZ
Jupp Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 ~S~ Everyone, And now we're going to need a new pilot emote...
migmadmarine Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Fair enough on the fuel load, but I do think that the driving time and distance to get to an enemy airfield, unless that airfield is an objective (and the tanks will likely be spawned near-ish enemies, so they will have their own combat objectives) that I don't really think airfield camping with tanks will be all that common. Then again, people will go to exceptional lengths to be irritating sometimes...
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Well, in this one case it would be very historically accurate. To put fuel in perspective, the 24th Tank Corps carried out a raid on Tatsinskaya which lasted from the 24th December to the 28th, 240km away from their supply base. It should put an extra element of strain on multiplayer, having to actively look out for sneaky tanks closing in and eliminating anything you see before they're rolling over your aircraft
Dakpilot Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Yep, Tatsinskaya was one of the main Airlift fields for JU-52 supply flights to Stalingrad pocket, its loss put even more strain on the operation which was at its limits at that time Cheers Dakpilot
migmadmarine Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Which would make for quite a neat mission to design.
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