SYN_Vorlander Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Love the idea of tanks but don't think they will be very practical on main stream servers such as WOL. This imo is due to player number or more specifically pilots being displaced. We have all been waiting for more than 64 now we get 84 and say give 10 tank slots per side we are back to 64 again. I think tanks could be used very well in a organised weekly mission. We sign up 10-15 tanks per side starting at relatively close distance, have 10 attack planes and 2 fighters. Then all duke it out=happy times Im sure that the Developers are keeping the server numbers in mind with the future development of the game. They must surely be working on increasing the number of players so that we could enjoy the game to its full potential. Maybe we would have a 128 player server soon. That would be fantastic for Il2's and Stukas to hunt and stop the tankers.
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) It has been suggested elsewhere that tanks may be less resource intensive then AC and may not count as a direct 1 to 1 comparison. If true, and I have no idea if it is, that would be cool. Get multiple tanks on the board at the cost of a few AC slots? Particularly if they open up 100'ish server slots as well. We'll see. Edited October 18, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf
LLv24_SukkaVR Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Wow, this was a very pleasant surprise. I guess nobody knows at this point if the tanks are multicrew or operated by single player? Multicrew tanks like Red Orchestra 1 & 2 have, would be awesome.
Jade_Monkey Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 84 people isn't enough for an air and ground war combined....not even close Considering we never have more than a single server close to 64 at any given time, I think 84 is pretty good. I wish the problem was the opposite, where there were too many servers maxing out. Right now Wings of Liberty is the only place you see some decent amount of users playing all the time.
ShamrockOneFive Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 64 players is a pretty intense online battle in my mind. That's the max we had with IL-2 realistically. Add a bunch more driving tanks for some combined arms operations and it just sounds fantastic. Wish I had more time for MP.
SharpeXB Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Shooting up tanks will be more fun knowing that they might be real players instead of bots ;-) 1
L3Pl4K Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Panzer III and IV vs T 34, KV1.....insane. Correct me if i am wrong, but german tanks in WW2 early years has the advantage of radio set. On russian side only the company commander tanks have radio set. In the game most players use ts. And I do not believe that the Red side players forego ts for historical correctness.
migmadmarine Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Well, it would be Panzer IV Ausf. F2's, III Ausf. Ls, and probably StuG III. Fs, so long barrel 75's and 50's, which can do quite well against KV-1s and STZ T-34 1941s when played well. Don't see the lineup being too badly balanced.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 @chief I think more servers would hit 64 if they were of the same quality as wol or even higher
Finkeren Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Panzer III and IV vs T 34, KV1.....insane. Correct me if i am wrong, but german tanks in WW2 early years has the advantage of radio set. On russian side only the company commander tanks have radio set. In the game most players use ts. And I do not believe that the Red side players forego ts for historical correctness. Germans will have the advantage of better guns, especially at longer ranges, and better visibility from inside the tank. Besides: It's not like any of us care too much about balance when it comes to aircraft, as long as they're historically accurate.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Its not a question of balance its a question of capacity
migmadmarine Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 In what sense exactly? I'm not sure I'm following. While the Soviet machines are better armored, the German ones are for the most part better armed, especially for engagement at range, and for crew functionality.
Taffelman Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 I'm extremely excited for this and regarding "the Soviet bias". All I can say is there isn't a better dev-team in the world that could take on a project like this. They have proved time and again that they have integrity and are more interested in realism, than selling out to the mainstream public. Besides if this project is isolated to BoM the T-34 is the current champion. 1
Wulf Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Interesting point about 'which' tanks might be included in a BoM scenario and whether or not there would be an effective 'balance' (ugh!). If the available ground forces in the game are to be limited to tanks alone, I'd think the Soviets would win every engagement. The German Mk IIIs and IV with their 50 mm and short barreled 75 mm main guns would be no match for the more heavily armed and armoured KVs and T 34s fielded by the Soviets. The widely held belief concerning German tank superiority (in the early years of the war) is a complete myth. The only thing that kept the Germans ahead of the curve in early engagements between German and Soviet armour was their better organisation and tactics and most importantly, their ability to press their 88 mm Flak weapons into an anti-armour role. So, either you don't incorporate realistic physics in any future tank on tank ground war or you also provide for player operated anti-tank weapons. Take away the capacity to use the 88 and the Soviets win every time. 1
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 The early T-34 and KV tanks had a lot of problems related to technical failures in 1943. Non-combat losses were extremely high, which meant sometimes more tanks would break on the way to the engagement than there were tanks left, meaning the remaining tanks were left heavily outnumbered. A mission designer might implement this for example when applicable. A smaller tank force can only shoot so much before running out of ammo or being overwhelmed. On the side, weren't the 88mm guns sometimes not enough for the KV? If I remember correctly the Luftwaffe played a key role in beating back tank formations, so it'll be up to the pilots to save the tankers' skins for the Germans. All in all this will require some insane degree of teamwork from everyone to work, and this applies to both sides. Should be fun.
AndyJWest Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 One thing that is going to need thinking about when including drivable tanks in multiplayer is that they are going to have to be spawned quite close to the front - nobody is going to want to have to drive for half an hour before having any chance of encountering an enemy they can shoot back at. This is going to concentrate the action into a confined area - which may be a plus or a minus, but will clearly influence mission design.
Jaws2002 Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Cool update. Thanks guys. Tanks are fun. I love to flank wide and sneak up on the opposition from the wrong side, then shoot like mad all the way to their spawn point.
TG-55Panthercules Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Cool update. Thanks guys. Tanks are fun. I love to flank wide and sneak up on the opposition from the wrong side, then shoot like mad all the way to their spawn point. IIRC, Heinz Guderian complained about this in his memoirs (Panzer Leader) - "That fat blowhard Göring's Luftwaffe could never find the Russians' T 34 spawn points for my Panzers to go after them, but somehow the Russians always seemed to be able to find ours."
migmadmarine Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 The early T-34 and KV tanks had a lot of problems related to technical failures in 1943. Non-combat losses were extremely high, which meant sometimes more tanks would break on the way to the engagement than there were tanks left, meaning the remaining tanks were left heavily outnumbered. A mission designer might implement this for example when applicable. A smaller tank force can only shoot so much before running out of ammo or being overwhelmed. On the side, weren't the 88mm guns sometimes not enough for the KV? If I remember correctly the Luftwaffe played a key role in beating back tank formations, so it'll be up to the pilots to save the tankers' skins for the Germans. All in all this will require some insane degree of teamwork from everyone to work, and this applies to both sides. Should be fun. No, as I recall the long 75mm on Pz.IV F2 and StuG.III F could deal with KV-1's quite well. Also, I'm not sure this video is specifically tied to BOM development, and not BOS. Those are STZ produced T-34s (Stalingrad Tractor Factory) so they would be quite appropriate for use in the Stalingrad setting.
TG-55Panthercules Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Also, I'm not sure this video is specifically tied to BOM development, and not BOS. Those are STZ produced T-34s (Stalingrad Tractor Factory) so they would be quite appropriate for use in the Stalingrad setting. That would seem to solve the problem of spawn points being too far away from the action, at least for the maps which feature the city of Stalingrad itself - the T-34s can spawn in the tractor factory and drive right into battle 1
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I'm probably mistaken then. I am a soft core lover of tanks - I appreciate their existence but cannot use them effectively and have not done any studying on it. What I recall is that the KV was a bastard to damage head on (from different battle accounts and the Raisenai incident, where I read the 88mm gun didn't work) but a sitting duck from the sides. Am I correct to assume that?
johncage Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) most tanks are like that. also, tanks really aren't hard. fundamental basics just know turret and track traversal functions. everything else flows intuitively. Edited October 19, 2015 by johncage
Sokol1 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Yes, work, custom made control for WoT tanks, I think. From the same author, custom stick for RoF. Edited October 19, 2015 by Sokol1
Taffelman Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I'm probably mistaken then. I am a soft core lover of tanks - I appreciate their existence but cannot use them effectively and have not done any studying on it. What I recall is that the KV was a bastard to damage head on (from different battle accounts and the Raisenai incident, where I read the 88mm gun didn't work) but a sitting duck from the sides. Am I correct to assume that? The 88L71 could kill any tank in WWII.
=EXPEND=Dendro Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 If it brings millions of buyers to the game, think of the potential and growth developments it will hold for us pilots. The 777 core crew with freedom to develop more plane theatres and without fear or worry if it takes off whilst the tank devs can bring in the numbers and the insane cash.... whats not to like?
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Depends on how they will carry this "feauture" on. If it really is to increase sales and create more income they need to stock up the amount of tanks (an early T-34 and PzKpfw.III is too few to attract casual tankplayers) including the famous Tiger and KV-1. Also dynamic battlefields had to ve created and both terrain and ai optimized for ground combat. All that sold as a standalone module should probably create some profit but also requires time amd ressources. If they keep it as a "nice to have" feauture without further game optimizations and feautures it will be most likely nothing more than a little distraction for current BoS / BoM owners with little increase in sales (why buy a full menu if you only like the dessert?). Edited October 19, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka
I./JG1_Baron Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Honestly - I am not enough wonder. Developers have published one clip with several T-34, and already there are discussions on the tank in IL2. If I remember correctly, somewhere they said that tanks in this game will not be operable. If - I would point out if any - will be sometime in the future, tanks and armors in generally manageable, I am sure that we shall be informed in advance. But I have every reason to expect that made (for example) T-34/76, Pz.IVG or Sturmgeschutz in the same quality as the BOS aircraft will be a tough one. And so the page graphics as well as the DM model and movement. Personally, I think that the time when it will have a combined simulator opportunity has not come yet. The servers have too few positions for players. I do not mean BoS but any simulator in general. And if there will be a tanks - community will want soldiers too and theirs first look. Similar soldiers like in the Red Orchestra (btw excellent game). I dont think that this is way for IL2:BOS/BOM/BOXxxx.
FlatSpinMan Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I've been playing around in modded Il2 '46 recently and have been driving a little Kubelwagen around Moscow. I've also driven it around some airfields I populated. Seeing things from ground level is cool (and that's in the old game with its fairly basic graphics). If we can blow things up as well, even better. I wouldn't be really into a serious tank simulator but just to charge around looking at things? Very keen. 1
No42_Baili Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 The 88L71 could kill any tank in WWII. Expect the IS-3
DB605 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Expect the IS-3 I'm pretty sure 88 would have been able to kill IS-3 too but that doesen't matter as it came too late to participate any fight during WW2. Edited October 19, 2015 by DB605
Wulf Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Expect the IS-3 Well that's going to depend where you hit the IS-3 and at what range. The frontal armour would certainly be resistant to an 88 round at extended ranges but up close, much less so.
Dennis_Nedry Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I think its a great idea to add tanks even though I will still be trying to destroy them from the air most of the time. Its encouraging to see that the video has 27k views already whereas all of the recent aircraft videos are less than 10k. I'm going to predict Battle of Kursk is going to be the next addon after BoM and my oh my how interesting that would be! 1
-TBC-AeroAce Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Yup I was thinking Kursk has to be next lol
[CPT]Pike*HarryM Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Maybe it will shift the meta a bit from AxA/dogfighting to ground support/attack which could be a good thing. Also, tanks are pretty easy to drive so it might bring in more casual players who then might get inspired to do some flying after getting killed all the time by Il-2s. Player controlled flak would be fun too, was one of the more entertaining aspects of WT:GF. Cat and mouse games with planes, hiding in forests and between buildings, etc, then shooting them when they pass by.
VBF-12_Stele Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I love ground pounding, and I could see this being a good challenge. The AI is a bit predictable, but human controlled tanks could really spice things up. Harass the tanks enough, they will scatter and slow down their progress to an objective.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Player controlled Flak would be epic!!!!! NUT to it lets just have player controlled everything I want to drive a train and sail a boat NOT JOKE OR SARCASM HERE
Wulf Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Player controlled Flak would be epic!!!!! NUT to it lets just have player controlled everything I want to drive a train and sail a boat NOT JOKE OR SARCASM HERE OMG....so you're the guy who bought the train sim....cool
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