Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Edited October 13, 2015 by jcomm
Uufflakke Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 What is Hans Joachim Marseille doing in Russia? No snow.
Reflected Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 They look somewhat 'over-powered' to me. I also have that hunch...compared to all other sims thrust seems to be very powerful in BoS in general. It seems to pull planes through maneuvers when when the wings must have exceeded their critical AoA. Nothing scientific, no proofs, just a hunch,
Finkeren Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I also have that hunch...compared to all other sims thrust seems to be very powerful in BoS in general. It seems to pull planes through maneuvers when when the wings must have exceeded their critical AoA. Nothing scientific, no proofs, just a hunch, The two first videos feature the fighters with the absolute best power/weight ratios in the sim.
I/JG27_Zimmi Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) That continuous climb after takeoff looks a bit too optimistic in my eyes... especially if you consider the weight. But anyway, nice and I'm really looking forward to flying on the summer map (especially the Emil) Edited October 13, 2015 by I/JG27_Zimmi 2
migmadmarine Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if the camera angle makes that climb look steeper than it strictly is.
SYN_Mike77 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if the camera angle makes that climb look steeper than it strictly is. Also, how much fuel was in the tank?
-=PHX=-Satch Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 That continuous climb after takeoff looks a bit too optimistic in my eyes... especially if you consider the weight. But anyway, nice and I'm really looking forward to flying on the summer map (especially the Emil) Really nice videos, but i agree with you about the way that this 109 climb so easy.
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 13, 2015 1CGS Posted October 13, 2015 Geez guys, you're only noticing these videos for the first time now? 2
LLv24_Zami Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Check out the He-111 display in videos section.
Kling Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Looks beautiful of course but as some have mentioned already, it looks like a very over powered RC plane the wsy it flies. Surely that cannot be realisitc mode? It must be with stalls off or something.
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I don't see the issue with the take offs. These planes are probably as empty as it gets, the pilot (Han) takes off with full throttle and pulls up after getting considerable speed on the ground. As Finkeren noted, the Bf-109 and the I-16 have excellent T/W ratios and climb rates. Last but not least, it's quite possible to keep these planes flying at super slow speeds, it only takes a lot of skill and corrective input to prevent a stall. Try taking off at 180-200km/h with any fighter, pull up gently but steadily and adding some banking, while balancing the rudder to prevent surprises. By the end of their climb you can see the planes hanging on their propeller as expected. I've seen even the Airbus A380 do steeper takeoffs at Le Bourget, I expect high performance fighters are capable of matching that juggernaut. Edited October 13, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell 1
Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I see no problem with the maneuvers in any of the videos other than the fact that I can't really use a single simulator, as much as I wished I could, because Il2 BoS is astounding, and it's flight dynamics are, IMO, top notch! In all climbs the pilot gained considerable energy prior to climbing, and also I am sure these flights weren't started with the tanks full ! probably even with no ammunition ! So, for me, just another proof of the quality, in all aspects, of this sim
Finkeren Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I think it looks fine as well, but there's a real simple way to know: Try setting up a quick mission and replicate Hans flying. It's hard to tell by a YT video, whether something 'looks' right or wrong, but if you get to fly the aircraft yourself, you'll definately know if something is wrong.
=FI=Blue2 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't see an issue here at all either & would echo what Lucas & jcomm wrote. Also, many of you have been to airshows & seen the vintage fighters perform as I have - and in those cases we have to remember that the pilots are almost never (if ever) going to full throttle or max performance. They can't risk ruining the engine or - obviously - stalling out at such low altitude in their flying museum pieces. If they did either or both, I'm totally confident they could perform similar to what we see here. I don't even think Han's planes are necessarily set to extremely low fuel or no ammo here. These planes are simply powerful and maneuverable, and more so than most of us can truly appreciate. 2
I/JG27_Zimmi Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't see the issue with the take offs. These planes are probably as empty as it gets, the pilot (Han) takes off with full throttle and pulls up after getting considerable speed on the ground. As Finkeren noted, the Bf-109 and the I-16 have excellent T/W ratios and climb rates. Last but not least, it's quite possible to keep these planes flying at super slow speeds, it only takes a lot of skill and corrective input to prevent a stall. Try taking off at 180-200km/h with any fighter, pull up gently but steadily and adding some banking, while balancing the rudder to prevent surprises. By the end of their climb you can see the planes hanging on their propeller as expected. I've seen even the Airbus A380 do steeper takeoffs at Le Bourget, I expect high performance fighters are capable of matching that juggernaut. As for what I experienced flying the extra 300 it is possible, but these planes definitely have another design concept than warbirds. Anyway I don't wanna spoil this topic here now. Amazing vids
Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Real Beech 18 aerobatics... and Bob's Aerocomander... So, nothing wrong with IL2, really :-) Edited October 14, 2015 by jcomm
Dakpilot Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I think the comment on the Extra 300 is a valid point Extra 300 empty weight + - 800 KG power 300 HP Bf109 F2 empty weight + - 2200 KG power 1300 HP even though these figures are very general and not to be considered totally accurate, it can be seen that the BF109F2 has a much higher power to weight than the modern aerobatic Extra 300 People underestimate how high performance these WWII warbirds actually are, especially when considered as a new airframe and flown to the limits of their flight envelope (possible in a sim), rather than at the docile limits as seen at modern airshows Cheers Dakpilot 2
TWC_Ace Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Im shocked..in positive way. I always thought that BOS FM isnt as good as DCS or even CLOD with TF mods. This is an absolute proof I was wrong! Wow, look at those stalls....Ironically Im saying this in topic where some of you have a quite different opinion. Though I would like to know how many fuel Han used in his F4....but, nevertheless, some stunts look almost identical as we see them on ww2 airshows. Edited October 14, 2015 by blackram 3
Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Im shocked..in positive way. I always thought that BOS FM isnt as good as DCS or even CLOD with TF mods. This is an absolute proof I was wrong! Wow, look at those stalls....Ironically Im saying this in topic where some of you have a quite different opinion. Though I would like to know how many fuel Han used in his F4....but, nevertheless, some stunts look almost identical as we see them on ww2 airshows. Yes, certainly on top together with DCS World - I really can't say I prefer one over the other... Each has it's own pluses and minuses... like everything in life, but they're both one of a kind! Really nothing wrong, other than good hands and feet and excellent flight dynamics from watching those videos... Edited October 14, 2015 by jcomm
Wulf Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Real Beech 18 aerobatics... and Bob's Aerocomander... So, nothing wrong with IL2, really :-) Han's videos may or may not provide an accurate representation (I don't know) but none of the aircraft featured in the You tube clips you provided climbed straight off the end of a takeoff run like the F4. 1
Finkeren Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I played around a bit with the I-16 yesterday flying it without ammunition and 20% fuel and was surprised to find, that it was really easy to copy Hans flying in that video with that loadout. The lightness and responsiveness of the controls was magnificent, and the climb rate was massive taking into account, that the plane still can't fly very fast. Energy retention was great and acceleration was extreme. I tried pulling tight loops and found that at full power I could pretty much just continue looping in perpetuity without losing altitude, I think a did like 12 loops in a row without letting go of the stick before I got bored. Now, is this realistic? I'd actually say yes. While the I-16 did feel super light, agile and responsive, it did not lose the sense of actually being a real aircraft with mass and a flight envelope that you can only push to a limit (unlike how I feel when I try flying the Yak-1 with flaps down) We have to keep in mind, that not only is the I-16 small, compact and agile, it also has by far the best power/weight ratio of any fighter in BoS/BoM. According to my calculations, with 20% fuel, no field mods and no ammo, the Ishak has a take off weight of approximately 1650kg. The M-63 engine delivers an emergency power output of 1100hp, so that's an impressive 0.66 hp/kg power/weight ratio compared to even the Bf 109F4, which in the same configuration (20% fuel, no ammo) weighs just over 2550kg and the engine can produce a maximum 1350hp, so that gives a ratio of 'only' 0.53 hp/kg. For handling pure aerobatics at low speeds, the I-16 is completely in a leage of its own, even if the Bf 109 still climbs like a rocket ship. Edited October 14, 2015 by Finkeren
1CGS Sneaksie Posted October 14, 2015 1CGS Posted October 14, 2015 For example, F4 in the video has been flown with 20% fuel and no ammunition. You may notice that the most energy hungry stunts were performed at the beginning when engine was still in emergency mode. Even with this in mind, Han crashed like 15 F-4s before recording the flight you see, pilots that flew real ones didn't have safe attempts 6
TWC_Ace Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Thank you for clarification Sneaksie. Cant wait for those birds adn summer maps!
Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 And... just in case someone is interested in the comparison, I've managed to run through that exact same sequence of aerobatics, and actually a few more lazy eights, cuban eights and immelmans using a K4 available in another simulation platform. The fuel tank was filled with 20% fuel and no ammunition was loaded either.
Trooper117 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 This is overpower lol!... that's what you call a fighter bomber! 1
KoN_ Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Great video's , looking very promising . !!! BOM not even released yet and guys are knitting needles . ??
Dakpilot Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Han's videos may or may not provide an accurate representation (I don't know) but none of the aircraft featured in the You tube clips you provided climbed straight off the end of a takeoff run like the F4. None of the aircraft in the video's have anything near the power to weight ratio of an F4 or F2 No-one can imagine a Beech 18 has the same performance as an ME-109 Everyone has seen videos of modern aerobatic Extra 300 aircraft doing similar climbs after takeoff, youtube is full of them if you have not witnessed it yourself A Bf109F2/4 has even better power to weight....why should it not do the same? or better? As for consecutive loops in the I-16, women pilots in the 30's were regularly doing 900+ consecutive loops in similar performance A/C (probably worse) and the record today is above 2500!! (with specially prepared A/C) Cheers Dakpilot
Reflected Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Everyone has seen videos of modern aerobatic Extra 300 aircraft doing similar climbs after takeoff, youtube is full of them if you have not witnessed it yourself A Bf109F2/4 has even better power to weight....why should it not do the same? or better? It sounded unbelievable, but then I did the math. Indeed, even the G-2 has a way better power to weight ratio than the Extra 300...astonishing. F-4: 0.46 Hp/kg Extra 300: 0.31 Heinkel: 0.21 (loaded) vs 0.28 (almost empty) P-40: 0.30 Yak-1b: 0.41
Finkeren Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 It sounded unbelievable, but then I did the math. Indeed, even the G-2 has a way better power to weight ratio than the Extra 300...astonishing. F-4: 0.46 Hp/kg Extra 300: 0.31 Heinkel: 0.21 (loaded) vs 0.28 (almost empty) P-40: 0.30 Yak-1b: 0.41 And again, let's not forget: I-16: 0.567 hp/kg (fully loaded)
Dakpilot Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Also of note is the power to weight of the He-111 when flown at minimum weights...not so far from a P-40 When you consider that fact, it can do some surprisingly good aerobatic manoeuvres that seem "unrealistic" at first glance (and certainly would have not be attempted IRL) Cheers Dakpilot 1
Guest deleted@50488 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 No-one can imagine a Beech 18 has the same performance as an ME-109 It was not meant to be compared to the F4 or I-16 video, but rather to that of the He-111, posted in this same thread
Major_Hero Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I'm just not going to be contactable for days, by anyone, when these summer maps come out. I'm stocking the fridge and toilet paper now. 1
TWC_Ace Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I'm just not going to be contactable for days, by anyone, when these summer maps come out. I'm stocking the fridge and toilet paper now. I already can see my wife going "WTF, again? Whats up this time with the f**** planes? Are you in love with them?" well I am muahahah Edited October 14, 2015 by blackram 2
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