When you know you should go back to leisure flight sims or quit altogether

[Fern]

1. Can't out maneuver a P-40

 

2. You only get points by flying the He-111 and dropping 1000 pounders

 

3. Can't hit anything; Your teammates let you finish off smokers, and you fire a 1000 rounds and manage to land only two hits.

 

4. Constantly bounced by ninja planes hiding above in the blue sky.

 

5. Can't fly without putting airplane into horrible death spin

 

6. All airplane silhouettes look the same to you, so you either don't shoot at all or you shoot at teammates

 

7. Can't keep track of enemy or teammates and you have TrackIR

 

8. You're in outer space, you miraculously see enemy plane on deck. You zoom down. It's a teammate. You wasted all your energy and you're dead now because you cant outrun or out maneuver anything regardless the plane. You suck.

 

9. Might be the only person to rip off their ailerons in a Lagg 3.

 

10. You suck so bad, you get shot down by a IL-2 AM-38

 

11. You rather just drink beer and be someones gunner after all the beatings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pilotpierre]

Ummmm, more practice maybe?

[avlSteve]

But... But these are the reasons you won't quit or go back to leisure sims.

[Y-29.Silky]

1. Don't feel too bad if it's a ninja in a dive.

 

2. It's not about the bombing, it's about making a sweet landing with a damaged plane :D

3. Drink more beer. 

 

4. Hop in a Lagg and go to 6000m and laugh at the 109's trying to climb up to you. 

 

5. 80% sensitivity in Yaw, Roll, Pitch. (Moving it "up" to 80% which is actually lowering sensitivity.) 

 

6. You can always say you're sorry. 

 

7. Be flight lead.

 

8. Zoom all the way in manually and you'll profile them easier. 

 

9. Have done it plenty of times chasing those Blonde Knights. 

 

10. You're not alone. I've seen Stuka's get kills from enemies believing they can out turn them. Same goes for the IL-2. 

 

11. I could use some of those. I'll be sure to leave a few beers back there.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Been there, it's a dark place but as Silky put it things aren't so bad after all.

 

I was getting shot up all the time, so much I became squadron commander of my one-pilot team and promptly removed my own ass from fighter duties. I'd reached a point where bad habits were too hard to unlearn and my tactical vision and repertoire were substandard. Worst of it all was that I had enough knowledge to know I was doing something wrong, but not enough to outsmart the enemy. Sure, the odd turn fight I could win here and there, but then soon after I would lose three in a row. Demoralising.

 

I don't know if my method was the vest way or not. I sat my ass in the Il-2 for the duration so that I would keep fighting (plus I had an affinity for dumb munitions A-G from flying the Su-25 regularly in DCS, also because I couldn't hit a thing in fighters). For a while I had no fighter flights mandatorily so that I would not keep bad habits entertained. This taught me how to shoot accurately, how to trim your plane well, how to spot stuff and identify it and how to get away from a stream of bullets coming right at you. Had I flown fighters regularly I would be too busy turning my ass all over the place to properly pay attention to that. The Il-2 made it easier too because it nearly flies itself and it can take a lot of punishment, so even when you screw up it isn't so frustrating since you can crawl back to base after being hit by a train, two meteors and the Death Star's ray.

 

What helped me was soaking up in war literature and media. First-hand pilot accounts are great, and books or articles on learning how to fight air-to-air help a lot too. For starters try In Pursuit, it has some agreeable and disagreeable opinions but the beef of it is outstanding and very well written, it made me a much better pilot.

 

Perhaps not flying fighters except for the odd QMB 1x1 was great because I had time to learn things properly before applying them.

 

If you are looking for pilots to look up to, there is a lot of debate but I'd personally recommend these two for their tactical prowess and how they taught fellow pilots and quickly created squadrons full of homebred aces: Aleksandr Pokryshkin and Werner Mölders. I don't know about Mölders, but Pokryshkin's tactical notebook is partially available online, Google it.

 

One last tip: roughly sketch on a notebook or something how you shot every enemy, and how you got killed too. The last moments are usually what helps the most. When you're the one who went down, write in one sentence what was the mistake: low speed, turned the wrong way, went too low, etc. Once you put that down on paper it's harder to repeat the same mistake.

 

If you send me your email via PM I can send you this translated Soviet tactical manual from 1943 that also improved my flying tenfold. It's wonderful to see your skills improve in front of you, and I'm sure you can do it too.

[Fern]

But... But these are the reasons you won't quit or go back to leisure sims.

 

 

Probably not. Can't justify letting an $80 game sit.

 

3. Drink more beer. 

 

5. 80% sensitivity in Yaw, Roll, Pitch. (Moving it "up" to 80% which is actually lowering sensitivity.) 

 

I think I'll try these

 

 

Feel free to add more folks

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I forgot to mention that In Pursuit is free and available as a PDF, here: http://www.google.se/url?q=http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/lento_ohjeet/inpursuit/inpursuit.pdf&sa=U&ved=0CAsQFjAAahUKEwiGpf_EuL7IAhXGkSwKHSVSCnU&sig2=pWyuIqRaSdHJl3_ZUlUbXA&usg=AFQjCNHAP-vYnuR2PBYEfQpADI-Ur6pyKQ

[Boomerang]

Hey Fern,

Research is also a good thing, it helps you understand the strengths and weaknesses of the plane you choose to drive in.

[Fern]

Thanks for the advice, Lucas and others. Ive been recording all my sorties and reviewing my mistakes. Lots of them are not seeing the enemy and catch me by surprise because its hard for me to follow when they're above me. Then the others are because I put myself at a disadvantage. Hard to avoid the furballs. Once in a furball, I feel like I'm not evading anything.

 

 

 

 

[216th_Jordan]

Thanks for the advice, Lucas and others. Ive been recording all my sorties and reviewing my mistakes. Lots of them are not seeing the enemy and catch me by surprise because its hard for me to follow when they're above me. Then the others are because I put myself at a disadvantage. Hard to avoid the furballs. Once in a furball, I feel like I'm not evading anything.

 

I had the Problem with visibility as the light was blinding me so i set gamma to 0.6000 in the startup.cfg which helped alot with spotting.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for the advice, Lucas and others. Ive been recording all my sorties and reviewing my mistakes. Lots of them are not seeing the enemy and catch me by surprise because its hard for me to follow when they're above me. Then the others are because I put myself at a disadvantage. Hard to avoid the furballs. Once in a furball, I feel like I'm not evading anything.

 

Getting dived onto is tricky, and I think the only solution is to be one step ahead and fly above them instead. Note the altitude you were at when you got killed, fly a little above that.

 

To be super honest with you, I think furballs are for pilots flying with a death wish. Sure, H-J. Marseille did it successfully but few of us can boast the skill to do it. In a furball, you are always a target being engaged by multiple bandits. The enemy is not above, below, in front or behind you but everywhere at once. It can always go wrong.

 

If I see a furball my first reaction is to plan how to not get in the middle of it. Usually the best way to do it is to get some distance from it, climb reasonably above it (some 500m usually works), straighten up to get some speed and then prepare to engage. At this point you need to identify what is friendly and what is enemy. My personal pick is to always attack whatever enemy is engaging a friendly aircraft. Dive in fast, shoot, DO NOT TRY TO TURN IF YOU MISS (the temptation is great and very hard to resist, but if you do there goes all your speed, you won't hit s*** anyway and now you're probably dead) and extend on a very high speed mild climb to get both vertical and horizontal separation. It's up to you and the mission if it's worth reengaging or proceeding to the target area or whatever else. If you do decide to hit back, try to attack from a different direction otherwise you will quickly become predictable.

 

One thing to remember when flying fighters: never fly defensively. The fighter is an instrument of attack and should only be used as such. In other words, try not to focus on how to avoid getting killed and start thinking how to kill instead - even if you suck at it. From experience, the second I fly trying to not get shot down I instantly become a target and eventually go down one way or another.

 

When attacked, think not how to avoid the shot but how to point your guns at the enemy. If you can, try to fly in pairs.

 

Two things I learned from Pokryshkin:

 

First of all, the formula of terror goes in this order.

1. Altitude
2. Speed
3. Maneuver
4. Fire!

Second of all: "the fighter pilot asks not how many enemies are there, but where are they."

 

As a bonus, a couple of attack techniques from his notebook for you to get an idea of what it is. You can find the rest of it with translations and etc. here: http://wio.ru/pokr/p1.htmPilots from the 55 IAP/16 GIAP, would always hang out around his living quarters since he would put some of these up on the walls to study them.

 

 

 

Last but not least, I get shot down all the time, mistakes happen. Just take it easy and you'll be OK.

[simplyjames]

 

 

5. 80% sensitivity in Yaw, Roll, Pitch. (Moving it "up" to 80% which is actually lowering sensitivity.) 

 

I did this last night after playing since early access at 0%.

wow.... i'm dramatically better than i thought i was apparently haha. This made flying a thousand times better/more fun.

Thanks. (i did tone it down to 50% though)

[Luger1969]

Some great advice Lucas that I will take. Set me thinking abt Shaws book...2 types of aircraft fighters and targets. Guys also some great quotes here....Hartman etc http://www.skygod.com/quotes/combat.html

[Gump]

ROFL...thx, fern, for the good laugh...i feel your pain..

.

but you forgot a few things...

.

12) you watch or hear other fighters ID'ing a distant fighter silhouette as soon as they spot it, and you intently stare at it until you are 10m from it before being able to ID.

.

13) you have learned to only load 20% fuel because that will leave plenty to cover your lifespan.

.

14) you fly along with your head outside of the canopy, regardless of speed, and STILL dont see anything.

.

15) you lose sight of a plane while actually directly behind it.

.

16) your dang gunsight wanders all over the screen ONLY when there is an enemy direclty in front of you, as if there were opposing magnets.

.

17) somehow the enemy bullets hit your plane from 2km out while you are doing erratic evasive maneuvers.

.

18) you finally get a bounce opportunity only to dive into compression straight into the ground.

.

19) you are shot down by the guy that is trailing thick black smoke.

[Luger1969]

Hartman also like Pokryshkin had a recipe..See – Decide – Attack – Break". John Boyd OODA observe, orient, decide, and act see also Requiem video. Also George Beurling. Different pilots, different background...yet some similarities. Some of the keys of success lay in these tactics. It is just to apply and perfect...over time.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Some great quotes in that link, thanks for sharing!

 

I must confess I have tried Shaw's book some two, three times over the last 8 years and by all means I can't get myself to like it. I even tried to look just at the images to learn graphically but it was no good. I wonder what's wrong with me

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Also, if you want to learn how to keep a good fighting spirit, try to read as much as you can find in English about Field Marshal Aleksandr Suvorov, particularly his quotes. The man was brilliant in every single aspect, and he never ever lost a battle - and not because of luck, there were 63 of them, and against the French army.
 
The genius of his fighting spirit is out of this world. Phrases like "fighting is not numbers, but skill" help a pilot get into the killer spirit when outnumbered 2:1 by technically superior enemies.

 

Try to stop focusing on aircraft performance as well. While you should know the weaknesses and strengths of the planes you fly and the planes you fight, overall whomever has the initiative is likely to win. Boris Safonov made himself an ace and brought up one of the best fighter regiments of the Soviet Navy while flying I-16s, Hurricanes and P-40s. Galchenko and Grigoryev became aces in their LaGG-3s (mind you, in the early versions that were a far cry from the BoS s.29). Wind and Juutilainen both had over 30 victories flying the Brewster Buffalo. I could go on for paragraphs, but you get the idea. Using the right tactics, most speed, climb or turn advantages are made irrelevant. Aircraft parameters are rarely the make-or-break of the engagement when employed right.

[Fern]

Lucas, you're the man. Thanks again.

 

ROFL...thx, fern, for the good laugh...i feel your pain..

.

but you forgot a few things...

.

12) you watch or hear other fighters ID'ing a distant fighter silhouette as soon as they spot it, and you intently stare at it until you are 10m from it before being able to ID.

.

13) you have learned to only load 20% fuel because that will leave plenty to cover your lifespan.

.

14) you fly along with your head outside of the canopy, regardless of speed, and STILL dont see anything.

.

15) you lose sight of a plane while actually directly behind it.

.

16) your dang gunsight wanders all over the screen ONLY when there is an enemy direclty in front of you, as if there were opposing magnets.

.

17) somehow the enemy bullets hit your plane from 2km out while you are doing erratic evasive maneuvers.

.

18) you finally get a bounce opportunity only to dive into compression straight into the ground.

.

19) you are shot down by the guy that is trailing thick black smoke.

 

I relate to all these, especially 15.

 

I had the Problem with visibility as the light was blinding me so i set gamma to 0.6000 in the startup.cfg which helped alot with spotting.

 

Thanks. I didnt know you could do this. I can actually see people above me now. I went with a 0.4000 setting.

 

 

From a sortie today: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/97121/?tour=2

 

Shots fired: 1470

Hit target: 1

Edited October 13, 2015 by Fern

[Lusekofte]

Do not fly fighters alone, if you do, fly escort, most people only see the fat juicy target and you will if not hitting the target manage to save a bomber and have a fighter run , after a zoom attack stay underneath it or try to get altitude where he do not see you, he will try to get away. Flying escort will eliminate the need to identify your target, a attacker is enemy, and even if you fight a loosing battle you will save the bomber. I love to fly wing with you in bombers. I am a lousy fighter pilot, mostly because it bore the heck out of me. I fly levelbombing high altitude both sides. I need a purpose. If that does not give me satisfaction I take a 1 month break. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by LuseKofte

[indiaciki]

You'll be back flying BOS and ROF in no time after flying a couple of hours in x-plane or FSX. I wasted a lot of money recently on very good X-plane aircraft because I love flying over "real" terrain etc. until I bought the Pitts.. It's then, you realize that "leisure sims" don't have flight dynamics at all. None. It's more fun flying around in BOS in the snow with a great FM than pretending to fly something that is pretending to simualte something that is intended to look like flying.

Edited October 13, 2015 by indiaciki

[Feathered_IV]

What is a leisure sim?  Like Microsoft Flight or something?   

[=FI=Blue2]

Haha, lots of good laughs here - thanks OP and the rest of you.  Great thread all around for a multitude of reasons, starting with the encouragement it is for new guys to stick with it!  I think most would agree:  many of the more rewarding things in life require humility, patience, and WORK... but are well worth it in the end and a lot of fun along the way - if you keep the right perspective.  BOS is kinda like that. 

 

Love all the great advice, quiotes, etc. above.  I would say one line deserves another 'foot stomp:'  don't fly alone!

If you'll wing up with somebody else, ideally on teamspeak, you'll stay alive longer/more often, AND have a LOT more fun (and that's really what you're here for, right?!).

Find somebody who also loves to teach & knows what they're doing, be willing to let them work with you, and your improvement will be even quicker.

[indiaciki]

try spinning in x-plane or fsx... that's leisure siiming  compared to this: 

and the SE5 is easy.... the x-plane - fsx can't do that basic thing right. 

Haha, lots of good laughs here - thanks OP and the rest of you.  Great thread all around for a multitude of reasons, starting with the encouragement it is for new guys to stick with it!  I think most would agree:  many of the more rewarding things in life require humility, patience, and WORK... but are well worth it in the end and a lot of fun along the way - if you keep the right perspective.  BOS is kinda like that. 

 

Love all the great advice, quiotes, etc. above.  I would say one line deserves another 'foot stomp:'  don't fly alone!

If you'll wing up with somebody else, ideally on teamspeak, you'll stay alive longer/more often, AND have a LOT more fun (and that's really what you're here for, right?!).

Find somebody who also loves to teach & knows what they're doing, be willing to let them work with you, and your improvement will be even quicker.

 

Fourspeed and Liberator and lots of other ROF pilots told me a lot in ROF. I agree.. Find somebody to fly with. And don't skip flying ROF. It's essential. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by indiaciki

[johncage]

those problems all seem to be multiplayer centric. hopefully when the revised sp campaign is released, this won't be an issue anymore. i play with icons and padlock because i don't want trackir or occulous.

[indiaciki]

those problems all seem to be multiplayer centric. hopefully when the revised sp campaign is released, this won't be an issue anymore. i play with icons and padlock because i don't want trackir or occulous.

 

try freetrackNoIR - it's free and it works great. all you need is some webcam and no hat or other gadgets

Edited October 14, 2015 by indiaciki

[SOLIDKREATE]

Simulators are supposed to be hard. It's what makes them so appealing. Just hang in there brother. It takes months and months to get really good. In real life it takes 2 years to make a basic pilot. To make a combat pilot you'll need and additional year of training on your specific aircraft. Beyond that is experience.

 

DON'T GIVE UP, Hang in there. Our community is too small to lose you brother.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Fern... you doing fine mate. Fly with us a bit more as wing leader and I'll cover you as best I can. I felt your despondency with a few of your comments on TS yesterday but you must remember a few things when you are flying LW...

 

1. The VVS pilots are very organised and extremely good pilots. More often than not, there are 10+ VVS players on TS working and communicating together. You're lucky if you get 4 LW pilots on TS.

2. Despite popular belief the VVS planes are extremely competent and in most situations are better than the LW 109..... all except climbing.

3. TO ENTER A FURBALL IS A DEATH SENTENCE.

4. The russian pilots fly with their head way outside the canopy like they are standing on their seats.... AT ALL SPEEDS, they spot everything. This is a joke that needs correcting ASAP.

 

Ideally try and fly around, spot, communicate and above all..... stay alive. Don't chase a single pilot for more than a bounce and only do so where you are just below or above contrail and there are no other suspicious contrails around you. Get back up to contrail after a bounce and keep your eyes peeled for other contrails.

 

I think you fly the190 ... don't bother for now..... it will just frustrate you. The forward vis is horrendous and the climb rate is well below the reds and the spin comes viciously if you don't treat her right. The Friedrich is your friend for airkills.

 

Come fly with Tripwire and myself and we will cover you. We mostly have had good success with a few things we do and we'll be happy to share them with you and cover your ass.

[viktorkm89]

Fern it is the same for me. Just try to fokus on learning something new everytime.

I myself is an expert of lurking in a good position for a single target and make a drop on him that leads to him killing me...

Edited October 14, 2015 by viktorkm89

[Gump]

oh man, this is the best thread for generating laughs.

.

getting serious, one has to force oneself, through the frustration, to remember it's a skill and process that takes time. patience is required. and always remember the formula: patience = many deaths + much time.

.

i recall ROF taking quite a bit of time before becoming competitive, and STILL being stat-fodder for the excellent pilots. BOS seems to be even taking longer, but progress becomes apparent after some time.

.

and, in the end, it's just a means of having fun. so don't take it too seriously. when you reach the top, you will attain to hero/ace status, and will receive the honorary "lafawnduh" plaque...

[SOLIDKREATE]

Even Uncle Rico had problems brother!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qwfnxN0n9I

[indiaciki]

I've been flying ROF for a year until I shot down one plane in MP. Guess why pilots who shot down 5 plane were called aces? Most pilots were lucky to survive The chances for surving for new pilots in WWII were about the same as in WWI (not counting US Fighter pilots who hardly saw any aerial fighter to fighter combat at all in europe for lots of reasons)...two weeks max. Most pilots here (me not included) have years and thousands of hours flying Combat sims. Don't get discouraged by that.

Edited October 14, 2015 by indiaciki

[Ace-pecker]

I think you really have nothing to worry about Fern...you'll get better. You already have experience with flight sims.

Besides you can't suck as much as me...I just started simming a few weeks ago when my flight stick arrived. I haven't even familiarised with the controls of a joystick. I pretty much feel hopeless half the time, but I knew this would be a steep learning curve. I have no option but to learn. You just have to determine to do so.

[Fern]

It's coming along and so are my kills. Just an easy game to get frustrated with, especially if you fly without wingmen and comms.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

It's coming along and so are my kills. Just an easy game to get frustrated with, especially if you fly without wingmen and comms.

 

It can be frustrating even if you've been at it for years.

 

Stick with it - combat flight siming is some of the most rewarding gameplay that I've experienced... Watching your countless hours of training, repeated failure and learned lessons start to pay off is really where it's at.