I wonder what long-range plans TF has in mind for CLoD?

[ACG_Flyby]

I wonder if it plans to expand the sim and take the war to the skies above Western Europe, and into later war years. This beautiful sim sat in my desk drawer for two years, and I ultimately had to buy a d/l version when it turned out that my copy's product key was invalid (hacked?). Now I enjoy the sim and the fantastic work of Team Fusion. I don't mind saying I'd like to see that team take CLod further, to it's next logical step: air operations on the continent.

Meanwhile, I look forward to the early release of BoS. I'm a Founder! I

Flyby out 

[heinkill]

They have announced work on a Malta map, new ships, subs and aircraft, AI, and driveable vehicles. Plus gfx enhancements and historical improvements to aircraft. Quite a list!

[ACG_Flyby]

Yes, quite a list. Looking forward to more from Team Fusion. A lot more. Team Fusion whets my appetite for more of it's creativity. It's surely resurrected IL2_CLoD. Ca't thank it enough. I hope it continues it's work for a long time to come.

Flyby out

[Bearcat]

I think given the fact that TF is not being paid and do not have the SDK that I am aware of there is only so much they will be able to do with CoD. It is a testament to their skill given the resources as far as time and tools go when you consider what they have accomplished.

[DD_bongodriver]

Yes, it sounds to me like they have pretty much circumvented the need for an SDK and have managed to crawl right up the game codes backside to fix some deep rooted problems.

[Feathered_IV]

Eeew! 

[DD_bongodriver]

it's an analology....

[FlatSpinMan]

Classy.

First I thought that was a typo, but nope.

[DD_bongodriver]

[ACG_Flyby]

I think given the fact that TF is not being paid and do not have the SDK that I am aware of there is only so much they will be able to do with CoD. It is a testament to their skill given the resources as far as time and tools go when you consider what they have accomplished.

I wonder who will grant them the SDK? Who owns it, and why wouldn't they consider letting TF have a go at it? I'd like to see more of the cockpit controls become clickable (in the fighters anyway). This sim has the possibility of following IL2_1946 in the pantheon of combat flight sims. Look at what Team Daidalos has done for  '46. I think whomever owns the rights to the SDK ought to be able to work something out with TF. It will be great for the genre to have CLoD elevated to the status of a classic through TF's continued ministrations (to correct, enhance and advance the sim). If I sound like I'm campaigning, so be it. I enjoy CLoD, and would like to see it reach it's full potential. I think everyone can agree that an injustice was done to the buying public by releasing the sim before it was fully or mostly debugged. People paid their money for the product, and many felt they got burned by the state of that early release. TF has brought the sim a measure of respectability it otherwise might not have. People fly it online, as do I, and find it to be quite the positive, and immersive experience (from what I'm hearing on comms). I wish TF continued success as it tries to fulfill the promise of IL2_Stumovik_Cliffs of Dover.

Flyby out 

Edited November 2, 2013 by FlybyFlyby

[DD_bongodriver]

I don't get it, why is one sim that people paid for getting released early worse than another sim being paid for to be released early, I'll never figure the flight sim community out

 

Anyway, the ownership of SDK's and relevant source code is technically with 1C, good luck finding someone to talk to about it.

[dburne]

One thing for sure, I am very excited to see what more TF brings to us - they have really transformed Cliffs.

[Feathered_IV]

Classy.

First I thought that was a typo, but nope.

Just put it behind you and turn the other cheek.

[FuriousMeow]

I don't get it, why is one sim that people paid for getting released early worse than another sim being paid for to be released early, I'll never figure the flight sim community out

 

Because the one that was paid for and released early was marketed as complete and not the state it was released in.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Because the one that was paid for and released early was marketed as complete and not the state it was released in.

 

It was never marked as complete, ever.

 

For years on end, every single development update, including the last dev update before release included the phrase "WIP".   Even the promo trailer included the words WIP. 

 

If you can find one time any dev for IL2COD said the game was being released as complete instead of WIP please do so.  I followed the updates for years and for years and watched the phrase "WIP" written with virtually every update over and over again right up to release.

Edited November 3, 2013 by ATAGBliss

[Bearcat]

Just put it behind you and turn the other cheek.

 

You're good......

 

I wonder who will grant them the SDK? Who owns it, and why wouldn't they consider letting TF have a go at it? I'd like to see more of the cockpit controls become clickable (in the fighters anyway). This sim has the possibility of following IL2_1946 in the pantheon of combat flight sims. Look at what Team Daidalos has done for  '46. I think whomever owns the rights to the SDK ought to be able to work something out with TF. It will be great for the genre to have CLoD elevated to the status of a classic through TF's continued ministrations (to correct, enhance and advance the sim). If I sound like I'm campaigning, so be it. I enjoy CLoD, and would like to see it reach it's full potential. I think everyone can agree that an injustice was done to the buying public by releasing the sim before it was fully or mostly debugged. People paid their money for the product, and many felt they got burned by the state of that early release. TF has brought the sim a measure of respectability it otherwise might not have. People fly it online, as do I, and find it to be quite the positive, and immersive experience (from what I'm hearing on comms). I wish TF continued success as it tries to fulfill the promise of IL2_Stumovik_Cliffs of Dover.

Flyby out 

 

I don't think that will ever happen. Why would 1C release the code to CoD? Sell it maybe but give it a way... Not going to happen.. I would be surprised if they even sold it.. but I bet if someone came up with a KS idea to raise funds to buy it it might work.

 

TF ought to look into trying to incorporate .. and then trying to raise funds to buy the SDK on KS.

 

I don't get it, why is one sim that people paid for getting released early worse than another sim being paid for to be released early, I'll never figure the flight sim community out

 

Anyway, the ownership of SDK's and relevant source code is technically with 1C, good luck finding someone to talk to about it.

It was never marked as complete, ever.

 

For years on end, every single development update, including the last dev update before release included the phrase "WIP".   Even the promo trailer included the words WIP. 

 

If you can find one time any dev for IL2COD said the game was being released as complete instead of WIP please do so.  I followed the updates for years and for years and watched the phrase "WIP" written with virtually every update over and over again right up to release.

 

When CoD was first released it was not marketed as a WIP. It was not marketed as a Beta. It was not marketed as an Alpha. It was sold as a finished product. The long awaited sequel to IL2.  Technically every new piece of SW is a WIP. Look at IL2 .. it is still a WIP. When CoD was released it was long over due and there was no excuse for it's shape at release. None. There are still no excuses for it and people can look back with all the rose colored revisionist glasses they want but the facts are the facts. It wasn't "the haters" or the critics .. it was the product.

 

CoD review 2011

 

CoD Final Patch Review

 

Having said that ... it is water under a burnt bridge.

 

Folks need to stop defending and taking offense at the hot mess that CoD was upon release because there is no defense for it, and no reason for any of it's current or long time supporters to continue to defend. They need to extol the virtues of the CoD that is currently being flown. Even Ilya has moved on ..

 

The work that TF is doing IMO speaks for itself and honestly remembering the mess that CoD was only enhances that work to a greater degree so in my totally meaningless opinion in the bigger scheme of things, all of CoDs supporters need to let go and let any criticism of the initial Cliffs of Dover roll off their backs and not even bother to respond. They are not the ones who broke it. They are the ones who fixed it. Even it's die hard supporters who kept at it, even if they never wrote a lick of code or created anything for it other than just using it and keeping it going. That was one reason why I suggested on a few other boards that folks drop the name Clod.. It was a clod allright initially .. and that is being kind to clods.. actually it was more a POS .. Today , thanks in no small matter to the work done by ATAG and TF it is actually an enjoyable WWII flight sim  and even if it never moves very far beyond it's current state due to the lack of an SDK, it will still have a spot in flight sim history that is far less infamous than it would have been had there been no TF input.

[FuriousMeow]

What Bearcat said.

[ACG_Flyby]

Can't we all just get along? Seriously, those who are sensitive to criticisms of C(L)oD, you can take solace in the work that TF has done to improve the sim. I don't think I flew it once online before I added the TF patches. I don't even have an un-modded version on my PC. When you know better, you do better. To Bear's point of buying the SDK, that seems like sound advice. I hope the owners would sell it, at least, and give it up for free at best (ala Falcon4). I wonder if TF incorporated and tried to raise money to buy the SDK, would fans of the modded sim contribute to it? I know I would. Hell, I've bought BoS without a turn at a joystick, so you know I took a leap of faith. I'd do no less for TF to help it buy the SDK. My position is one as a fan of both Cliffs of Dover, and the work TF has done with and to it. My whole premise for this thread is the hope Team Fusion can continue to apply it's healing magic to this simulation (I enjoy so much) through expanded access to whatever it needs to continue to improve it . This is not the thread for critics or haters, please.

thank you,

Flyby out

Edited November 3, 2013 by FlybyFlyby

[ATAG_Bliss]

It was never marked as complete, ever.

 

For years on end, every single development update, including the last dev update before release included the phrase "WIP".   Even the promo trailer included the words WIP. 

 

If you can find one time any dev for IL2COD said the game was being released as complete instead of WIP please do so.  I followed the updates for years and for years and watched the phrase "WIP" written with virtually every update over and over again right up to release.

 

@Bearcat

 

Everything I just said above is 100% accurate.  I can find you 100's of updates with the words WIP in them.  I can even find you the pre release promo video with the same.

 

So twisting my words around to say something different still doesn't change the fact that what I said above, is 100% accurate.  I can 100% prove it.  Strawman arguments won't work.  Talking about game reviews after the fact won't work. If you are going to respond to me and say something I've said is inaccurate than you had better respond to the information I've stated and not the made up presumption you have in your head. Why you constantly twist people's words, I will never understand.  So please stop with it. 

 

If you can find one single quote from the developer up to pre release that states "we are releasing you a complete game" instead of the 100's of quotes I can provide that all say WIP, please do so. And if you could read, who I responded to you would then understand why the quote and response in the 1st place.  Cause clearly, the game was never marketed as "complete".  The proof is in the forums and years of posts.  Oleg long warned that PCs weren't even invented yet that could get the most out of the sim. 

Edited November 3, 2013 by ATAGBliss

[ATAG_Bliss]

Can't we all just get along? Seriously, those who are sensitive to criticisms of C(L)oD, you can take solace in the work that TF has done to improve the sim. I don't think I flew it once online before I added the TF patches. I don't even have an un-modded version on my PC. When you know better, you do better. To Bear's point of buying the SDK, that seems like sound advice. I hope the owners would sell it, at least, and give it up for free at best (ala Falcon4). I wonder if TF incorporated and tried to raise money to buy the SDK, would fans of the modded sim contribute to it? I know I would. Hell, I've bought BoS without a turn at a joystick, so you know I took a leap of faith. I'd do no less for TF to help it buy the SDK. My position is one as a fan of both Cliffs of Dover, and the work TF has done with and to it. My whole premise for this thread is the hope Team Fusion can continue to apply it's healing magic to this simulation (I enjoy so much) through expanded access to whatever it needs to continue to improve it . This is not the thread for critics or haters, please.

thank you,

Flyby out

 

Don't worry Flyby v4.0 was just precursor to what v5.0 will bring.  The sky is the limit.  But it would be better to ask about it on our forums.  It's quite obvious you will recieve flak about it here. 

[FuriousMeow]

Haha, okay Bliss. Yeah, it was marketed as 50% (or less) complete and would require years of patches to get it playable and close to complete. Oh, and Unicorns exist and I piss rainbows.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Haha, okay Bliss. Yeah, it was marketed as 50% (or less) complete and would require years of patches to get it playable and close to complete. Oh, and Unicorns exist and I piss rainbows.

 

Again, show me one line from any developer in the 7 years the game was spoken about that said the "game is complete"  Just one time is all I ask.  Now when you find that in those 7 years, even including the final update before release, the developers are still saying "Work in Progress".  I actually take that as the work is in progress and not done.  I'm sorry you read the English language differently than the words actually written.  Another strawman at it again.

[Bearcat]

D@mn Bliss.. can't you even take a friggin compliment without being combative? Is that all you got out of my post...

 

 I am not arguing .. No straw man here... Finished.. WIP ..  that's all semantics.. The bottom line is that it was not what people thought they were getting. Not even close. You casn call it a WIP or whatever.. but when released it was not ready for prime time.... and I am going to bow out of this conversation thank you very much because I see it is falling on deaf ears.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I thought I was getting something that wasn't finished..,  a work in progress if you will.  And the reason I thought that is because I read what the developers actually said. 

 

How bad or unfinished of a product I got I obviously wouldn't know until I actually played it.  But anyone that followed the updates, thinking they would actually get 100% perfect working sim, clearly didn't read the updates, because they told the opposite.  One update (real close to realease) even told how many sounds were placeholders from the old IL2.  Well that raised a big red flag for how much is finished for me.  They haven't even got the sounds down and are about to release it. Just think how much anything else is a placeholder at that point?  I thought plenty, personally.   But again, I read the updates and actually read them.  

[DD_bongodriver]

and I piss rainbows.

 

AWW!! I'm jealous, that is so cool.

[ST_ami7b5]

I really like TF 4.0 patch.

[Mysticpuma]

Thing is, unless there was an option to buy the Source Code, there wouldn't be a point in starting a Kickstarter? How much would a Source Code cost these days? How would you buy it? Too many questions and no idea on the answers

[Dakpilot]

Easy to sort out the argument, anyone have an original box release? and post a picture where it says released as a WIP, "warning this game is not finished"

 

not everyone who bought it religiously read all the forums, It was a high profile mainstream game release from a big publisher, for people who walked into a shop and bought it, saw the poster etc. bought it off steam, did it say 30% finished expect to wait 1 year for unsuccessful patching?

 

Anyway I am glad it is now getting up to the level it was meant to be, even if only for online MP, so thanks TF for the effort that has been put in   however I think the amount of development that can be done is finite and for the long term a tricky proposition, but as a stopgap until the next gen flightsims come to maturity thankyou and well done

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Rama]

I do have the collector edition (in perfect condition... never used). Not only is there no WIP mention nowhere (not in the cover box, not in the inside box, not on the manual, etc...), but the introduction of the "pilot's instruction - special edition", by Ilya Shevchenko himself never ever mention anything about an "unfinished" game.

He explains it was 5 years in development, that it's the true continuation of IL2 (and even that IL2 customers knows what to expect...), that CloD is more important and more realist than anything done before, etc...

These aren't one of the publisher's words (Ubi or 1C), but the dev manager's words.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Easy to sort out the argument, anyone have an original box release? and post a picture where it says released as a WIP, "warning this game is not finished"

 

not everyone who bought it religiously read all the forums, It was a high profile mainstream game release from a big publisher, for people who walked into a shop and bought it, saw the poster etc. bought it off steam, did it say 30% finished expect to wait 1 year for unsuccessful patching?

 

 

This and also what Rama said. It's great that it's in the condition it is now. I enjoy playing it and have recommended all my friends who are interested about flight sims to try it out (again). I just don't understand the need to trying to defend the state where it was when it was published. It was not in the shape you expect high profile game from a big publisher (to use Dakpilot's words) to be.

[Catseye]

Can't we all just get along? Seriously, those who are sensitive to criticisms of C(L)oD, you can take solace in the work that TF has done to improve the sim. I don't think I flew it once online before I added the TF patches. I don't even have an un-modded version on my PC. When you know better, you do better. To Bear's point of buying the SDK, that seems like sound advice. I hope the owners would sell it, at least, and give it up for free at best (ala Falcon4). I wonder if TF incorporated and tried to raise money to buy the SDK, would fans of the modded sim contribute to it? I know I would. Hell, I've bought BoS without a turn at a joystick, so you know I took a leap of faith. I'd do no less for TF to help it buy the SDK. My position is one as a fan of both Cliffs of Dover, and the work TF has done with and to it. My whole premise for this thread is the hope Team Fusion can continue to apply it's healing magic to this simulation (I enjoy so much) through expanded access to whatever it needs to continue to improve it . This is not the thread for critics or haters, please.

thank you,

Flyby out

 

 

Just conjecture here. There may be agreements in place not to release any official material involving CLOD as it might be in conflict with other agreements now in place?

Edited November 3, 2013 by Catseye

[ATAG_Bliss]

I do have the collector edition (in perfect condition... never used). Not only is there no WIP mention nowhere (not in the cover box, not in the inside box, not on the manual, etc...), but the introduction of the "pilot's instruction - special edition", by Ilya Shevchenko himself never ever mention anything about an "unfinished" game.

He explains it was 5 years in development, that it's the true continuation of IL2 (and even that IL2 customers knows what to expect...), that CloD is more important and more realist than anything done before, etc...

These aren't one of the publisher's words (Ubi or 1C), but the dev manager's words.

Can you show me where it specifically states you are getting a finished game?  Did Ilya or Oleg ever mention those words?  Don't you think the box art was done months, maybe years prior to release so the publisher could produce the copies, artwork, graphics work to piece together to sell?

 

I'm not saying any customer that didn't follow any of the updates would have known what they were actually communicating on their forums.  But what they were actually communicating was WIP after WIP for years on end.  That to me clearly means all those parts of the game are still WIP.

 

 

This and also what Rama said. It's great that it's in the condition it is now. I enjoy playing it and have recommended all my friends who are interested about flight sims to try it out (again). I just don't understand the need to trying to defend the state where it was when it was published. It was not in the shape you expect high profile game from a big publisher (to use Dakpilot's words) to be.

 

I guess it's the same reason people that didn't watch the updates are so surprised the state it was in in the 1st place.  I'm not really defending anyone.  All I'm saying is when a developer during a developer update after developer update says "here's fire" it's very WIP.. "Here's clouds it's very much WIP"  "Here's you name any other part of the sim they clearly stated was still WIP" etc., that they actually might mean the stuff they are talking about might really be WIP like they said it was.  Call it decepive if you will.  But anyone can go back and read years worth of Dev updates that always stated words like "very much WIP"  "shouldn't even be showing you this because it's so WIP"  "This is no way even close to final because it's WIP"

 

I would have thought considering the small size of the flight sim communitiy, some would have actually watched or, better yet, paid attention to what the developers said update after update.  As I stated earlier, I wasn't decieved at all.  I actually followed and read the udpates.  It was almost expect that it was not finished.  They never once said it was.  How can this be such a hard concept to grasp for some people?

[FuriousMeow]

Again, show me one line from any developer in the 7 years the game was spoken about that said the "game is complete"  Just one time is all I ask.  Now when you find that in those 7 years, even including the final update before release, the developers are still saying "Work in Progress".  I actually take that as the work is in progress and not done.  I'm sorry you read the English language differently than the words actually written.  Another strawman at it again.

 

No one, in the history of games, says "complete" - because there will always be patches. It was never marketed as WIP, even WIP would have been better than what it was. It was a hack job of massive proportions, sharing the same issues as it's predecessor because it had to end up using it's predecessors code to fill in everything but the graphics engine.

 

But, you are a revisionist of history. It's all there to google, and anyone can find that there was zero communication that what was being purchased was, for all intents and purposes, a fully incomplete hackjob of a turd - and that turd wasn't even polished.

 

There were even performance videos shown to demo how well done the simulation was, remember them? They were strangely over only water and from far away? The one person everyone hated, and he got on my nerves as well, he had it right and was correct all along. Tree was actually right about the condition of CloD.

 

And you may not be defending anyone in the sense that you are directly calling out their names, but you are defending a broken product at release that was never marketed that way with a management that is better defined as bumbling incompetency.

Edited November 3, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Buzzsaw]

Salute

 

As a member of TF's team, I thought I'd answer the original poster's question, and clear up some confusion.

 

Where is TF development going?

 

First of all, I'll say quite definitively, it is not going to the East Front.  We are quite confident that 1C/777 will do an excellent job with BATTLE OF STALINGRAD, I am looking forward to playing the game myself, (current owner of RoF) and considering the scarcity of the flight sim genre, there is no need for two sims on the same subject.

 

Where can Team Fusion go with the CLIFFS OF DOVER engine?

 

Just about anywhere.

 

New maps

Cockpits for the existing non-flyable planes

New planes

New ships

New vehicles

 

etc.

 

But of course creating those new elements requires an enormous investment in time and energy, and we're not getting paid.  So we are not going to make promises we can't keep.  It all depends on the level of excitement and interest the team members retain.  The TF adventure could end tommorrow, or it could still be around in 5 years.

 

Your best source of information are the updates on the Team Fusion boards, which contain hints, videos and screenshots of development as it occurs or as we feel it is appropriate to release it.

 

For those of you who bought the original game, and feel cheated by what was released, I would suggest you have a look at what TF has accomplished.  You may be surprised to find there is a pretty good game to play now, and a chance to get your money's worth.

 

If you don't believe me, check out the reviews in PC PILOT, or the older review for TF 3.0 on SimHQ.

 

Cheers and Happy Skies! 

[dburne]

Salute

 

As a member of TF's team, I thought I'd answer the original poster's question, and clear up some confusion.

 

 

 

What a classy post,  I am so enjoying the work you guys are doing, absolutely awesome job!

[DD_Arthur]

 

For those of you who bought the original game, and feel cheated by what was released, I would suggest you have a look at what TF has accomplished.  You may be surprised to find there is a pretty good game to play now, and a chance to get your money's worth.

 

 

 Absolutely!  S! Team Fusion

[Bearcat]

I do have the collector edition (in perfect condition... never used). Not only is there no WIP mention nowhere (not in the cover box, not in the inside box, not on the manual, etc...), but the introduction of the "pilot's instruction - special edition", by Ilya Shevchenko himself never ever mention anything about an "unfinished" game.

He explains it was 5 years in development, that it's the true continuation of IL2 (and even that IL2 customers knows what to expect...), that CloD is more important and more realist than anything done before, etc...

These aren't one of the publisher's words (Ubi or 1C), but the dev manager's words.

 

Thank you Rama..

 

Can you show me where it specifically states you are getting a finished game?  Did Ilya or Oleg ever mention those words?  Don't you think the box art was done months, maybe years prior to release so the publisher could produce the copies, artwork, graphics work to piece together to sell?

 

I'm not saying any customer that didn't follow any of the updates would have known what they were actually communicating on their forums.  But what they were actually communicating was WIP after WIP for years on end.  That to me clearly means all those parts of the game are still WIP.

 

 

 

I guess it's the same reason people that didn't watch the updates are so surprised the state it was in in the 1st place.  I'm not really defending anyone.  All I'm saying is when a developer during a developer update after developer update says "here's fire" it's very WIP.. "Here's clouds it's very much WIP"  "Here's you name any other part of the sim they clearly stated was still WIP" etc., that they actually might mean the stuff they are talking about might really be WIP like they said it was.  Call it decepive if you will.  But anyone can go back and read years worth of Dev updates that always stated words like "very much WIP"  "shouldn't even be showing you this because it's so WIP"  "This is no way even close to final because it's WIP"

 

I would have thought considering the small size of the flight sim communitiy, some would have actually watched or, better yet, paid attention to what the developers said update after update.  As I stated earlier, I wasn't decieved at all.  I actually followed and read the udpates.  It was almost expect that it was not finished.  They never once said it was.  How can this be such a hard concept to grasp for some people?

 

I said I was done with this .. and Buzzsaw put the icing on the cake .. but Bliss you are in your own world man.

 

I guess it's the same reason people that didn't watch the updates are so surprised the state it was in in the 1st place

 

People who bought the sim were surprised it was in the shape it was in.

 

All I'm saying is when a developer during a developer update after developer update says "here's fire" it's very WIP.. "Here's clouds it's very much WIP"  "Here's you name any other part of the sim they clearly stated was still WIP" etc., that they actually might mean the stuff they are talking about might really be WIP like they said it was.

 

What you mean by WIP is not what Luthier meant by WIP .. and I quote :

"Thank you for purchasing Cliffs of Dover! If you have previously purchased our sims, you should know that they are a constant work in progress. We as a team are proud of the fact that we continuously support, expand and improve on our releases. We hope, with your support, to continue this tradition and to help the series grow in the coming years."

As I said.. in the context that he mentioned and as I stated in my post.. IL2 is still WIP. IL2 has also been working since it was released and the issues that it did have are in no way comparable to anything that happened with CoD.

 

It was almost expect that it was not finished.  They never once said it was.  How can this be such a hard concept to grasp for some people?

 

They never said it wasn't either.. but the point you are missing is that it isn't about being finished.. it is about being finished enough to work as intended . Which CoD never did until the very last patch (or maybe it was the one just before that that was the turning point)  that Luthier put out just before he split but it was the subsequent patches put out by TF that finally made CoD what it should have been back in 2011.

 

No one, in the history of games, says "complete" - because there will always be patches. It was never marketed as WIP, even WIP would have been better than what it was. It was a hack job of massive proportions, sharing the same issues as it's predecessor because it had to end up using it's predecessors code to fill in everything but the graphics engine.

 

But, you are a revisionist of history. It's all there to google, and anyone can find that there was zero communication that what was being purchased was, for all intents and purposes, a fully incomplete hackjob of a turd - and that turd wasn't even polished.

 

There were even performance videos shown to demo how well done the simulation was, remember them? They were strangely over only water and from far away? The one person everyone hated, and he got on my nerves as well, he had it right and was correct all along. Tree was actually right about the condition of CloD.

 

And you may not be defending anyone in the sense that you are directly calling out their names, but you are defending a broken product at release that was never marketed that way with a management that is better defined as bumbling incompetency.

 

You don't need Google.. Luthiers posts @ 1C from 2008 to departure .. and all this is not to drag CoD or Ilya through the mud but to counter a fallacious argument that is nothing more than one man's opinion stated in this thread as fact when in truth it is not fact.. just opinion. As I said in my post two posts above this one. TF has done more to bring this sim back from the dustbin of obscurity and make it a relevant product once again than any single group other than it's creators.. and they deserve all the kudos and accolades they get..

 

Salute

 

As a member of TF's team, I thought I'd answer the original poster's question, and clear up some confusion.

 

Where is TF development going?

 

First of all, I'll say quite definitively, it is not going to the East Front.  We are quite confident that 1C/777 will do an excellent job with BATTLE OF STALINGRAD, I am looking forward to playing the game myself, (current owner of RoF) and considering the scarcity of the flight sim genre, there is no need for two sims on the same subject.

 

Where can Team Fusion go with the CLIFFS OF DOVER engine?

 

Just about anywhere.

 

New maps

Cockpits for the existing non-flyable planes

New planes

New ships

New vehicles

 

etc.

 

But of course creating those new elements requires an enormous investment in time and energy, and we're not getting paid.  So we are not going to make promises we can't keep.  It all depends on the level of excitement and interest the team members retain.  The TF adventure could end tommorrow, or it could still be around in 5 years.

 

Your best source of information are the updates on the Team Fusion boards, which contain hints, videos and screenshots of development as it occurs or as we feel it is appropriate to release it.

 

For those of you who bought the original game, and feel cheated by what was released, I would suggest you have a look at what TF has accomplished.  You may be surprised to find there is a pretty good game to play now, and a chance to get your money's worth.

 

If you don't believe me, check out the reviews in PC PILOT, or the older review for TF 3.0 on SimHQ.

 

Cheers and Happy Skies! 

 

That is good news...

 

What a classy post,  I am so enjoying the work you guys are doing, absolutely awesome job!

 

Absolutely...

[ATAG_Bliss]

@Bearcat

 

"I'm in my own world" 

 

How nice of you.  Just so you know the definition of WIP, straight from the dictionary.  A word that was repeated for years on end by the developers.

 

 

 

Work in Progress

 

Web definitions:  a piece of work that is not yet finished

 

 

You can twist it anyway you want.  You can call me names.  Do your worst or w/e you feel like to puff your chest.  But that still doesn't stop the "fact" that this phrase was a constant in virtually every update, and it's definition is pretty easy to understand.  And when you are dealing with software, even a simpleton would probably be able to use a bit of logic and realize that software that isn't finished, probably won't work 100% right.

 

Many people played the sim at release and right up to it's current form.  I guess all those people were crazy right?  Maybe they all got a different version than everyone esle that worked?  It was full of bugs.  It had levers going the wrong direction.  It even had old IL2 sounds for a while.  But there was people still playing it everyday, and there still is.  The way and others speak is if it's the worst thing ever created.  That's what I don't understand.  If it truly was a disaster, there wouldn't have remained the number of players playing it, let alone the 3rd party coming into effect.  Because reality is it's quite good, and always has been.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dakpilot]

Bliss just leave it, no-one is calling you names, but just accept the FACT that it was not sold/marketed by the publishers to the general public with a warning or suggestion that this product is not in its intended "finished for release" state

 

anyone can argue the semantics of whether any game is "finished" and will never need a patch on release, but continuing to do this is only counter-productive for the continuation and popularity of the good work that TF are doing.

 

What good is having this thread locked, which could have continued to expose CLoD/TF in a positive light, because of failing to concede a very moot point.

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[ST_ami7b5]

Big thanks to all Team Fusion members!