VBF-12_Stele Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Loving the P-40, but I couldn't help but notice there are no rotary axis controls in the game setup. There are trim wheels in the cockpit, which would make sense to use on some of the HOTAS's out there (ie-X-55, X-52, etc). Are there any plans to implement this in the game? 2
Sokol1 Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Are several answers for this "fundamental question of 'virpilov' life" but this from (Han) Russian side is detailed (despite confuse due Google Translator). With regard to the axles - is many times discussed in the team, I now can not remember some important arguments "against", but vskidku - fully admit that on the axis can hang those trimmers who actually manage the plane shutrvalchikom or lever t .e. "positional" management body. I reminisce and think about why this is not done (it may well be that just this problem has not been given the priority), but I will say unequivocally that the trim tabs, control switches - to assign to the axis just never give. Edited October 11, 2015 by Sokol1
Mikey Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Are several answers for this "fundamental question of 'virpilov' life" but this from (Han) Russian side is detailed (despite confuse due Google Translator). Hmm, I cant tell what that translation means, it says their is no argument against it but then to assign the axis just never give?
Uriah Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Some things that many of us would want an a lever or a rotary access control are not that way in this game because the specific plane did not control that item with a lever that stayed in the position indicating visually the position of the controlled device. Point, some controls may have had a lever or a wheel but such acted more like a pump handle. So the developers are trying to reflect how a specific plane was controlled. But on the P-40 the pitch and yaw trims look to me to be on wheels that dial to a position that seems to me would be very logical to match up with rotary axis control on one's joy stick or whatever. I am mystified by the choice on the P-40 the devs made.
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 11, 2015 1CGS Posted October 11, 2015 I am mystified by the choice on the P-40 the devs made. It's no different than the choice they made with the Russian planes.
VBF-12_Snake9 Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Both choices are DUMB. This is one thing that really makes no sense.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Fun fact is that all aircrafts used to have axis trim in alpha. Some people approved it, some complained they wanted button controlls. Well some patch chan.ged all that by replacing (not adding) button trim for all aircraft but the 109. No particular reason behind that was give but some folks appreciated it as more "realism" for certain planes like the fw 190. Despite a year old complaint about that issue no willingness to change it from devs side has been voiced. It's one of the things rushed and left behind that no one wants to care about now as BoM is the next project in the works (like many other things in BoS, unfortunately). Edited October 12, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka 1
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 12, 2015 1CGS Posted October 12, 2015 Fun fact is that all aircrafts used to have axis trim in alpha. Some people approved it, some complained they wanted button controlls. It's never been a feature. You're mistaken.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 It was and has been chabngd. I used it for long with my X-52 rotarys and remember the people complaining about Fw190 not having button but only axis trim. But keep going on, I dont care. It was and is a bad decision from a historical and a gamedesign point and an indication of how those don't work all well with BoS.
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 12, 2015 1CGS Posted October 12, 2015 People would be screaming for trim on axis to return if it had actually ever been there. Sorry, but it's never been a feature. You're likely mixing it up with the stabilizer trim feature.
Sokol1 Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) My 0,01$. The game controls are not done for the guy that have a Warthog HOTAS, Slaw F16 Rudder Pedal, 3x Saitek Trim Wheel, 2x Saitek PRO Quadrant, Obuto chair and 3x 40" monitor. Was done for the guy that have at the best the "3in1" joystick with "twist rudder", HAT and 4/5 buttons, so no place for "trim on rotaries/sliders/levers". Look, even a key for center rudder as saved ("less keys is better") - what make the life of mouse/keyboard player very difficult. And, the "rotaries" in HOTAS X-5x, G-940... lack angle and resolution (most are 8 bits - 256 points) to be a good trim device. And even if not allow the il-2(2001) cheater "trim on slider", the way that trim and flaps are set in DCW allow some exploit, the guy simple turn the rotarie/slider/lever in his HOTAS and forget, the trim or flap will be turn alone until reach the end of course, what give advantage over the guy that need press and hold a key/joy/HAT to get the same effect. I use the throttle axis + modifier as "ON/OFF" switch for Bf 109 flaps, so dont need hold a key/button for 15/20 seconds. On the other side this implementation don't allow stop the rotarie/slider/lever in X% of trim/flap - and have a good visual feedback of command position - because the axis work as ON/OFF switch, is OFF only if rotarie/slider/lever have his direction inverted (if the axis is set as "slider" on controls, if not only in middle of course). This way to work don't please the "with spare axis" vir'pilots. And in BoS/BoM, one of "several answers": Bearcat, on 16 Jul 2015 - 10:31, said: Zak will the trims ever be put on an axis on aircraft that had trim on a wheel or a lever? Not planned for a while. But possible in spring. Edited October 12, 2015 by Sokol1
AbortedMan Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) There was a complaint during early testing that trim on sliders would allow players to quickly whip their aircraft around like RC planes using trim only (this is what you see happening a lot of the "look how much BoS sucks" videos). I don't think there was an efficient way to code something quickly within the budget that prevented this (slowed the input of the trim to a more realistic speed according to how much your slider moved a la DCS:P-51) so static values of adjustment speed were bound to boolean (up/down) commands that you see today. (My belief, I didn't have direct contact with developers and visibility on their decisions during my time on the testing team) Edited October 12, 2015 by AbortedMan
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 ...(slowed the input of the trim to a more realistic speed according to how much your slider moved a la DCS:P-51) so static values of adjustment speed were bound to boolean (up/down) commands that you see today. Thats how it's done on the Bf109's stabilizer and by far a better way to implement trim than forcing multiple trim buttons for aircraft with trim wheels. They also said they intendet to keep the number of key bindings as low as possible which kind of seems ackward considering we have 3 different types of pitch trim controlls.
VBF-12_Snake9 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 The first week of the 190 release had the trim on axis, but the next patch they removed it. Know that to be a fact, because I was PISSED when they removed it. It's not that they can't. It's that they won't. Whatever lame-ass reason is just bull****.
Sokol1 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Fun fact is that all aircrafts used to have axis trim in alpha. But in early release (alpha/beta) the planes don't have any trim... Remember the il-2 with elevator turned up? This answer is not for this "fundamental question of vir'pilot life" but explain why this and other related features are not possible. http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2965-voprosy-razrabotchikam-2/page-10?do=findComment&comment=338611 Edited October 13, 2015 by Sokol1
AbortedMan Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Thats how it's done on the Bf109's stabilizer and by far a better way to implement trim than forcing multiple trim buttons for aircraft with trim wheels. They also said they intendet to keep the number of key bindings as low as possible which kind of seems ackward considering we have 3 different types of pitch trim controlls. What you're describing is simply a UI issue. Just bind the various trim buttons to the same corresponding buttons and it's all the same function on the same buttons. The first week of the 190 release had the trim on axis, but the next patch they removed it. Know that to be a fact, because I was PISSED when they removed it. It's not that they can't. It's that they won't. Whatever lame-ass reason is just bull****. They won't because of the nature of slider controls (zero resistance/force feedback on sliders) and how unrealistic it would be to adjust trim so quickly and enhance performance of your aircraft unrealistically. The real 190 has trim on buttons, by the way, not a wheel. Edited October 13, 2015 by AbortedMan
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) But in early release (alpha/beta) the planes don't have any trim... Remember the il-2 with elevator turned up? This answer is not for this "fundamental question of vir'pilot life" but explain why this and other related features are not possible. http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2965-voprosy-razrabotchikam-2/page-10?do=findComment&comment=338611 Yea, good old times (not so much ). Later when it introduced it was howver binded to axis however, see what OIAE_Snake said. What you're describing is simply a UI issue. Just bind the various trim buttons to the same corresponding buttons and it's all the same function on the same buttons. Sure I just mentioned it to show the highly controversal game decisions being made. Stating axis trim won't be implemented to not increase "game difficulty" but confronting new users with 3 different pitch and 4 radiator types is not a good way to justify leaving one pretty much important element out for "simplicity", even less when the technology to implement it is already availabel. Edited October 13, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka
VBF-12_Snake9 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 What you're describing is simply a UI issue. Just bind the various trim buttons to the same corresponding buttons and it's all the same function on the same buttons. They won't because of the nature of slider controls (zero resistance/force feedback on sliders) and how unrealistic it would be to adjust trim so quickly and enhance performance of your aircraft unrealistically. The real 190 has trim on buttons, by the way, not a wheel. Test the 109 useing first axis then holding a button. Time both and you will find there is no difference. When I tested it it took about three seconds for both to reach full defection. That agruement holds no water.
=LD=Penshoon Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I think axis assignment is technically possible for adjustable stabilizer like 109, 190 & m.c 202 (worked since RoF) but 190 only has buttons IRL so no axis available as that's most accurate. Trim tabs on an axis is probably something that not yet fully developed in their engine, it's new tech and not available from RoF like stabilizer. Just a guess though. I prefer button trimming on the stick anyway for comfort, wish I could get the 109 & 202 stabilator to work with buttons.
Sokol1 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Suggestion: remove trim on axis for Bf 109. All equals.
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Suggestion: remove trim on axis for Bf 109. All equals. Suggestion: establish trim on axis for all the aircraft that actually had it. 1
AbortedMan Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Sure I just mentioned it to show the highly controversal game decisions being made. Stating axis trim won't be implemented to not increase "game difficulty" but confronting new users with 3 different pitch and 4 radiator types is not a good way to justify leaving one pretty much important element out for "simplicity", even less when the technology to implement it is already availabel. I agree. It's very silly and not a good experience for the user to see 3 functions that essentially do the same thing. I'm sure a lot of questions were asked in forums and in-game about how to trim an aircraft before it was realized. Test the 109 useing first axis then holding a button. Time both and you will find there is no difference. When I tested it it took about three seconds for both to reach full defection. That agruement holds no water. It's not an argument...it's what happened. I'm pretty sure it's a developer bandwidth/implementation issue. Coding speed-to-actuate-control limitations on trim for all aircraft probably takes some time that is better used on other priority items. I mean, I'm sure devs are just extremely busy cycling overpowered FMs from one nation's aircraft to another every single day judging by the forum threads I've seen. Yak1 OP...109 OP...LaGG-3 OP...190 OP...back and forth...hard work, ya know?
Sokol1 Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Suggestion: remove trim on axis for Bf 109. All equals. Seems the guys there have the idea: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3500-sovmeshenie-osej-upravleniya-rv-i-stabilizatora/?do=findComment&comment=341462 Due "wise" players binding the Bf 109 Stabilizer adjust in the same axis of elevator control... Edited October 15, 2015 by Sokol1
AbortedMan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 2 years not enough time. Yea I know. 12.OIAE_Snake9: Master Project Manager that has all the secrets and answers on how to solve every issue with an ongoing development project...Doesn't want to divulge those secrets, would rather express expectations and disapproval. Seems like a legit perspective.
Libel Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 What would make most sense to me is to place the relevant axis in the game, and keep the buttons. So aircraft that trim on an analogue axis can use that, and planes that trim on digital input can use buttons.
AbortedMan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 What would make most sense to me is to place the relevant axis in the game, and keep the buttons. So aircraft that trim on an analogue axis can use that, and planes that trim on digital input can use buttons. *And still retain the limitations of how quickly trim on an axis can be manipulated.
VBF-12_Snake9 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 well they can work on tanks. . . what a joke.
VBF-12_Snake9 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 It's fine. Tanks don't need trim. That's funny.
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