startrekmike Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Still can't see any evidence of a 'lie'. You must have missed all the places where he stated "remember this is a work in progress" and "Can't say now. Engine can do, but need a time first. So what will be in final - we will see." I don't remember any exclusive DX11 version of the game. I expect they didn't get that functionallity up to a state sutiable for release. The DX 10 version has some very nice visuals and with the final patch it was fairly efficient too. Even on my mediocre system I can get better frame rates than I can in ROF. It will be very interesting to be able to compare the Channel map in ROF and see what effect it has on our performance. Cheers! I have a pretty modest system myself, I was running ROF fine with my old video card (a 9800 GT 512 MB) at medium/high settings with very good framerates, no real stutters at all and it all felt very smooth. Then, when I installed CloD for the first time, I learned that my poor aging card was not even enough to start playing it, I had to quickly upgrade to a 7770 with 2GB just to get it somewhat close to ROF's performance at high/medium settings (I had to run CloD on almost all low settings with the old card). What I am trying to say is that if CloD runs better than ROF then I think you have some settings messed up with ROF, perhaps you have super sampling enabled (a known culprit on lower end systems) or something else because there is actually no reason it should run worse, as much as I like CloD, it has it's share of problems when it comes to texture optimization and while it plays really smooth over the channel, it starts to get a little jerky when over land, ROF runs consistent for me 100% of the time. I don't really want this to sound like I am picking a fight with you but I think that there might be some settings wrong in ROF because CloD just does not run that well, it is not a dig against the sim and I am not trying to say that ROF is "better" but the fact remains that CloD was never a well optimized product and one can objectively say that it's performance is hardly consistent and many sacrifices had to be made for it to run for most people. Keep in mind, I play both ROF and CloD so I am not cheerleading for any particular one, I just call it like I see it and right now, I don't think CloD can compete with ROF when it comes to overall performance (please note, before some of you light torches and fetch pitchforks, I don't hold CloD's performance and engine issues against it, I still love it to death and actually just finished playing it before I posted this).
voncrapenhauser Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 All I have to say is,RIP CLOD Ever hopefull for BOS Arguing about something you cant change is pointless. I'm looking forward not back now. Fingers crossed we get something a kin to 1946's longevity and quality with added features like in CLOD(that work) is all i ask
Freycinet Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 .so between the 2, I would rather have anti aliasing in a DX9 title, than no anti aliasing with DX11 lighting effects. Jaggy images are hard to miss...but subtle lighting effects are not as noticeable. I actually feel the opposite. I sort of see completely through jaggies and actually think they are no problem at all at a resolution of 1920x1080. None of my movies are made with AA on, and nobody seems to notice. The subtle lighting effects in CoD, on the other hand, are indeed perhaps subtle, but when you first have tried the rich visual tapestry of shadows and reflections constantly shimmering across the cockpit it is really hard to go back to more "sterile" and computer-like visuals. Just my opinion and I totally understand that other people have a different opinion, but I don't think we can generalise about "one thing being better than the other". 1
DD_Arthur Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 All I have to say is,RIP CLOD Ever hopefull for BOS Arguing about something you cant change is pointless. I'm looking forward not back now. Fingers crossed we get something a kin to 1946's longevity and quality with added features like in CLOD(that work) is all i ask Couldn't agree more. This forum is for looking forward to the future. What is done is done.
Krupi Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I actually feel the opposite. I sort of see completely through jaggies and actually think they are no problem at all at a resolution of 1920x1080. None of my movies are made with AA on, and nobody seems to notice. The subtle lighting effects in CoD, on the other hand, are indeed perhaps subtle, but when you first have tried the rich visual tapestry of shadows and reflections constantly shimmering across the cockpit it is really hard to go back to more "sterile" and computer-like visuals. Just my opinion and I totally understand that other people have a different opinion, but I don't think we can generalise about "one thing being better than the other". I agree, but lets see what they can bring to the table.
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I actually feel the opposite. I sort of see completely through jaggies and actually think they are no problem at all at a resolution of 1920x1080. None of my movies are made with AA on, and nobody seems to notice. The subtle lighting effects in CoD, on the other hand, are indeed perhaps subtle, but when you first have tried the rich visual tapestry of shadows and reflections constantly shimmering across the cockpit it is really hard to go back to more "sterile" and computer-like visuals. Just my opinion and I totally understand that other people have a different opinion, but I don't think we can generalise about "one thing being better than the other". Frey, we are all going to have see what they can do and make a choice if we can buy into it or not. They will not make everyone happy, we all want different things from a sim. Im going to wait and see and then decide. What i personally want is... A accurate FM, as close as CLOD or better. DM has to be better than IL46, its doesn't have to be as complex as CLOD for me, i would like it but its not a deal breaker. As long as major systems are covered. Graphics are personal, but if its ROF standard or better im happy. COOP's. Performance has to be good, no random crashes, stutters or slow downs. CEM has to be better than IL2 but i dont need heated pilot tubes. I dont need clickable cockpits, but need all major systems for CEM covered by my HOTAS. Time will tell.
DD_Arthur Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 What i personally want is... A accurate FM, as close as CLOD or better. DM has to be better than IL46, its doesn't have to be as complex as CLOD for me, i would like it but its not a deal breaker. As long as major systems are covered. Graphics are personal, but if its ROF standard or better im happy. COOP's. Performance has to be good, no random crashes, stutters or slow downs. CEM has to be better than IL2 but i dont need heated pilot tubes. I dont need clickable cockpits, but need all major systems for CEM covered by my HOTAS. Time will tell. A good choice that I'm sure we can all agree on given the time scale and the nature of the engine being used. I think that is all eminently do-able and I think Jason and Loft would not have taken this on if they did not think they could meet this sort of a standard.
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Its all a trade off... What can do in 18 months development time? you cant have everything and what you do is still a trade off between modeling CEM, DM, FM, performance, level of graphic detail in cockpits, landscape and aircraft, map objects, aircraft in missions. Some of will be happy, some wont.
APIKalimba Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I don't think they can change too much from the ROF engine in the short time they have until the proposed 2014 release. You can't build a new engine in a year. Maybe. Maybe I am over positive here...But in case you did not see this: Originally Posted by FS~Phat I know this is a bit naughty cross posting but this is important. DX11 and 64bit is on the horizon.. will it make it to BoS? Probably, but maybe not on release. We may not get DX11 and 64bit on release of the new sequel but the 777 way is to make things fun, get it out and then continually tweak it. So if they are already working on DX11 and 64bit expect that will probably make its way into ROF (or maybe another project?) before the sequel for refinement and testing. Bottom line. Dont dis 777 just because today they are DX9, they are already looking beyond that. More here on the graphics engine http://www.cleared-to-engage.com/cat...777-studios-2/ Extract: "It???
Jaws2002 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Maybe. Maybe I am over positive here...But in case you did not see this: Originally Posted by FS~Phat I know this is a bit naughty cross posting but this is important. DX11 and 64bit is on the horizon.. will it make it to BoS? Probably, but maybe not on release. We may not get DX11 and 64bit on release of the new sequel but the 777 way is to make things fun, get it out and then continually tweak it. So if they are already working on DX11 and 64bit expect that will probably make its way into ROF (or maybe another project?) before the sequel for refinement and testing. Bottom line. Dont dis 777 just because today they are DX9, they are already looking beyond that. More here on the graphics engine http://www.cleared-to-engage.com/cat...777-studios-2/ Extract: "It??? Edited December 16, 2012 by Jaws2002
Rjel Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Who is the major partner in this venture? I thought 777 was the publisher. If so what would 1C have to say about release dates? Edited December 16, 2012 by Rjel
Caudron431 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I happy so far to see that 777 Studio is taking the right decisions about the new sim. I am really sad for CoD, but as grateful as i am to 1C and Maddox games, i think that they took the wrong decision by giving too much attention to some of the (good?) old usual loud community members, and other whiners, around here, at the different forums (Zoo, Banana, etc.). While on the other hand neglecting another part of the WW2 sims customers: the offliners and casual onliners (no real work on campaigns, focus on online competition only, and this years even before CoD (battles for FM and DM), no AI work at all,...). Onliners, forum members, can be very loud, but nothing proves that they should recieve this vast amount of attention . How do you call people that have a great influence but are not a majority? The question that remains is: do lobbies (with agenda most of the time) represent all the sim customers <_< ? CoD copies did not sell as well as the old IL2 series, and there must be a reason, for simmer are of the faithful kind. Some very important decisions 1C and Maddox Games took, unfortunately for all, they took it to please the loud online people often more interested in competition and stats, in the maintaining of their personal glorious stat status :D haha! (AI, the core of offline gaming, on the other side was left to die without serious improvements for years). Or in fancy requests that they consider most important... I'm not blaming: how could 1C and MG do differently, they wanted to please customers, alas customer that after a couple of years of daydream began to be accustommed to quality for very low price. But originality and success are at the opposite side from this kind of spoilt child mentality that take everything for granted. These particular kind of loud online people are more often than other possessing high end computers able to deliver and play a very demanding game as was CoD initially. All that was beautiful, but in the end how much did they represent in terms of copies sold? That would be an interesting question. Remember, number of posts in a forum doesn't always means number of copies purchased , at least in the dimension we are living in :D Remember, who had to give its opinion before IL2 original game was released 12 years ago? Who favoured the Eastern theater then? No one of the loud online community and other whiners, because if they had the possibility to chose they certainly would have chosen another WTO based sim. With online gaming and internet developping fast through the years, harsh attacks towards game developpers increased to reach an incredible amount of violence (remember the good old ORR times)! It seems to me that offliners are the real loser of it, getting less, not taken into consideration because logically they represent the minority on forums. Just a guess, but maybe they deserve better for at least they take the game and enjoy it as it is without feeling the need start a public war on it. So it seems success does not always imply excessive external advice and participation. BTW many people i know are still saving to improve their system to fully enjoy CoD completely, but maybe another part did not buy the game (no good AI, poor campaign modes, high investement in new gear for that?). They probably waited too long for the next debugged and maybe more offline oriented opus, BoM.) For another 1C and MG error was to release a game that would only be enjoyable to people with high end computers. Those of course are the minority, the high specs the game demanded maybe discouraged many people who sticked with IL2 1946 and TD. Copies have to be sold, and to achieve this the game must not only be enjoyable by few. Due to the shortage of money available for this genre, a sim should not be a total revolution (like CoD) but should improve less rapidly yet steadily, like original IL2 did over a record period of 12 years! TY Oleg, Ilya and team for that. TY Team Daidalos too! So i see 777 politics really sound and logical, by refusing to implement too much fancy (but enjoyable, that's true!) things, maybe they will make it in leading the WW2 sim genre farther. In all cases, i thank them in advance for saving the genre after the CoD regretable failure. I wish them the best with the project Edited December 16, 2012 by RegRag1977 2
APIKalimba Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Maybe. Maybe I am over positive here...But in case you did not see this: Originally Posted by FS~Phat I know this is a bit naughty cross posting but this is important. DX11 and 64bit is on the horizon.. will it make it to BoS? Probably, but maybe not on release. We may not get DX11 and 64bit on release of the new sequel but the 777 way is to make things fun, get it out and then continually tweak it. So if they are already working on DX11 and 64bit expect that will probably make its way into ROF (or maybe another project?) before the sequel for refinement and testing. Bottom line. Dont dis 777 just because today they are DX9, they are already looking beyond that. More here on the graphics engine http://www.cleared-to-engage.com/cat...777-studios-2/ Extract: "It???
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Ace, here is the lie Oleg posted.... now stfu.Did I call it or what? See folks I know Tree like the back of my hand! And thus I knew before I asked the question, i.e. . Tree.. Question for you.. Are you saying you can NOT create a DX10 game using the DX11 API? That Tree would not answers it! Funny ain't it? I mean he will not go there! Why you ask? Simple! Because he knows any attempt at addressing the DX10 vs DX11 API statement will only highlight how wrong he was/is to imply that 1C was lying about CoD being a DX11 game in their advertisements on the box or website! He will do and say anything to take the focus off of that fact! Even go as far as to break forum rules and take the chance in getting a vacation if he thinks there is a chance he can upset the other person such that they switch from the topic at hand start to personally attack him! Which he used with great success at the 1C forums! Problem for Tree is people quickly get wise to his tactics, as I and so many others have. In summary Tree your so called proof of 1C lying about CoD being a DX11 feature using game is NOT proof of that at all But.. Your so called proof of 1C lying about CoD being a DX11 feature using game is a good example of why developers have 2nd thoughts about providing updates on their progress! Why you ask? Because there are people like you that can not tell the difference between an advertised feature on the box/website and a work in progress (WIP) update some 2 to 3 years before the release of the game. That is to say Oleg talking about a feature they want to do or hope to do in a WIP some 2 or 3 years before the release of a game DOES NOT equate to a PROMISED FEATURE let alone an ADVERTISED FEATURE that you can turn around and say you were lied to because that feature they wanted to or hope to do didn't make its way into the final release It is that simple! Yet you and yours still don't get it! Worse yet you and yours have the audacity to complain that 1C didn't provide more Friday Updates! So for all you new and old timers.. If you want to know why game developers don't give a Friday update every week, you have the likes of Tree and his sort to thank for that! Edited December 16, 2012 by ACEOFACES 1
SlipBall Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 AoA, I'm not sure that there is an audience for this battle 1
Krupi Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 AoA, I'm not sure that there is an audience for this battle http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index.php?showtopic=186&page=3&do=findComment&comment=2435 Everyone should thank Uther for finding that :D
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 AoA, I'm not sure that there is an audience for this battleAgreed.. But it just rubs me wrong when I see Tree and his lot get away with calling the developers liars as he did in this thread.. I know those who know Tree know the real deal.. And those who drank the Tree kool-aid will never see the light.. I just bring this up for any of the new members of this forum who may not know how Tree operates.
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 What did Krupi say?In essance Krupi said people should put people on ignore that call out Tree when they see Tree lying.. Problem for Krupi is that would mean they have to put him on ignore too!
SlipBall Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Agreed.. But it just rubs me wrong when I see Tree and his lot get away with calling the developers liars as he did in this thread.. I know those who know Tree know the real deal.. And those who drank the Tree kool-aid will never see the light.. I just bring this up for any of the new members of this forum who may not know how Tree operates. I understand, but that is how he feeds
SlipBall Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) His pilot training reflex's B) Edited December 16, 2012 by SlipBall
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I understand, but that is how he feeds Good point.. On one hand I want to warn the new commers But On the other hand I am feeding the king of Trolls In light of the fact that most of the people in this thread are old timers, it may be best to just let it go for now. Thanks for the insight Slip! S! His pilot training reflex's B)LOL Edited December 16, 2012 by ACEOFACES
EAF602_Puff Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) AoA..I dont know you, dont know about you, but for the sake of all sanity in here, drop the attacks and please keep the posts about the new game. Tree, please, also remember , that this forum is for BoS, a new game, not a clone of any exisiting game that has gone before...I wish to come on here and read about BoS..not Clod and not RoF..so please folks..KEEP IT REAL!!! Many thanks Edited December 16, 2012 by EAF602_Puff 3
=IRFC=Jorri Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Yespls. Keep it real, keep it about the new game, and keep old personal feuds away.In other words, AoA and Tree, take it elsewhere please. Edited December 16, 2012 by hq_Jorri
Pudfark Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Would somebody please empty out the cat box... 1
EAF602_Puff Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) A lot of honest concerns from the followers of Clod are justified, but all I can say to that is, please watch the developers posts. In RoF they have shown consistantly that they will listen to the voices and posts of players, but only if they are of a constructive direction...and these posts have made a difference within the RoF game, THEY DID ADD FEATURES THAT FOLKS ASKED FOR... so, if the feature you want to see included, isn't in BoS at release, hang on in, they may add it to the sim at somepoint. This new venture is an ever changing title...but only if WE give it support, by buying and helping out. It has been proved with the last title that 777 do care about giving a polished and fully functioning game...and with 1C on board...I feel that it will move in a very positive direction. Edited December 16, 2012 by EAF602_Puff
APIKalimba Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 This feud Ace/Tree has been going on for more than 2 years....We need a fresh start here...But to be honnest, Tree has always been entertaining I must say. And he had good points. And very good arguments. And interesting points of vue. And pertinent questions. Can't say the same about his bullies though. So I hope he will stick around and if he ever goes too far, let Jason handle it...No big deal... Salute !
DD_bongodriver Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Right, this topic was started by someone who has 'genuine' and 'justified' concerns, other than people with similar concerns or the people those concerns are being directed at nobody else need concern themselves on this topic, we don't need disciples of ROF coming in here and making attempts at amateur moderating, you have the ROF forum to promote ROF to your hearts content.
EAF602_Puff Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) May I enquire as to who is this directed at Bongo? I do agree that BOTH camps have their share of 'dumplings', but these folks do nothing but disrupt the reading pleasure of others, who wish to see a sucessful simulation appear at the end of the development time, by continuing to have digs at each other. Surely in these times, we can have discussions without resorting to the type of posts that have began to invade this thread. Edited December 16, 2012 by EAF602_Puff
=IRFC=Jorri Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Right, this topic was started by someone who has 'genuine' and 'justified' concerns, other than people with similar concerns or the people those concerns are being directed at nobody else need concern themselves on this topic, we don't need disciples of ROF coming in here and making attempts at amateur moderating, you have the ROF forum to promote ROF to your hearts content. If you don't want another forum where the developers rule with iron hands and locking and banning is rife, we will definitely need some self moderating. If I post about ROF, it's only JUST because there are many here who are not interested in trying it, but who are still interested in the DN engine that will power the new IL2, and who want to know what are the pro's and cons of this engine. Edited December 16, 2012 by hq_Jorri
DD_bongodriver Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 May I enquire as to who is this directed at Bongo? Not you..
DD_bongodriver Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 If you don't want another forum where the developers rule with iron hands and locking and banning is rife, we will definitely need some self moderating. If I post about ROF, it's only JUST because there are many here who are not interested in trying it, but who are still interested in the DN engine that will power the new IL2, and who want to know what are the pro's and cons of this engine. There would be no need for locking and banning if people didn't keep attacking anyone who dared express a concern.
EAF602_Puff Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Not you.. No problem Bongo, you must have replied to my post whilst I was editing.. There would be no need for locking and banning if people didn't keep attacking anyone who dared express a concern. I agree Bongo, folks will have concerns, and hopefully, someone will be able to give a clearer picture of what we are going to get. I wont hide the fact that I was a closed tester for RoF for a long time and I also can't seem to get CloD running without some stutter, but I really hope that I come across as a person who just wants a sim that will keep me happy and interested for the same length of time I was with the original IL2. I have worked with 777 before and know that they can deliver on stuff, if possible, and that also they will continue to support and try their utmost to improve the product they release. I haven't had the pleasure of testing with 1C, so I won't even try to hazzard a guess at how its done..but I am sure, that the guys from 1C will want a polished product too. Edited December 16, 2012 by EAF602_Puff
DD_bongodriver Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 His avatar pic actually scares me. :o Grow up....
Krupi Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) If you don't want another forum where the developers rule with iron hands and locking and banning is rife, we will definitely need some self moderating. If I post about ROF, it's only JUST because there are many here who are not interested in trying it, but who are still interested in the DN engine that will power the new IL2, and who want to know what are the pro's and cons of this engine. Agreed, bongo you can't stop telling people not to mention ROF when its our current developer baseline, but on the same note due to this being an "il2" game some here have to expect that this game will ALWAYS be compared to COD... if it was called something else this might not have been such a big deal. Edited December 16, 2012 by JG52Krupi
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) This feud Ace/Tree has been going on for more than 2 years....We need a fresh start here...But to be honnest, Tree has always been entertaining I must say. And he had good points. And very good arguments. And interesting points of vue. And pertinent questions. Can't say the same about his bullies though. So I hope he will stick around and if he ever goes too far, let Jason handle it...No big deal... For those that may be falling for this line of reasoning.. Allow me to tell you how to spot a Tree kool-aid drinker.. Look for the following.. They have no problem with someone calling the developers liars. They have problems with the person who points out someone called the developers liars. In summary They ignore the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, that being someone calling the developers liars. Not a word is mentioned about that! The only thing they focus on are the people who RESPOND to the ROOT CAUSE. Those people are the problem! Not the person that called the developers liars! It is the person that called out the person that called the developers liars that are the problem! Only in bizarro world would this go unnoticed! Edited December 16, 2012 by ACEOFACES
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