Concerns from an IL-2 Veteran

[[KWN]T-oddball]

COD was killed by either 8 years of bad-management, at least 2 restarts, a almost complete turn over of staff including Oleg, a abysmal launch(with Oleg signing copies and then vanishing), bad reviews across the board, a problem with full screen, people with epilepsy,  bad PR, broken or missing features, no COOP's, lies, broken SLI, a awful GUI, half arsed patches, patches that broke sound, patches that caused CTD's, alpha, beta and more beta patches, floating ships, non starting hurricanes and last but not least banjo vids...

 

...or paying customers complaining about the above. 

Whining complaining and complex features did not kill CLoD...understaffed Inconsistent erratic and woeful mismanagement was the monster behind CLoD's demise. Take oleg's vision and give it to a major coding house like ID/DICE IN 2006 and by April of 2011 we are all crying and saying goodbye to our family and loved one's as we prepare to lock our self's in the man cave...never tobe seen again because the ULTIMATE and IMMERSIVE WW2 flight sim has arrived :D .

 

A simulation is just that...an attempt to simulate real life within a chosen medium (PC's in this case) and like a sand castle its is the little things that add up to the whole.

 

Sliding back the canopy

turning on the fuel

listen to the groan of the engine as the start cycle begins

watching the heat gauge as the engine warms up

watching the grass blow in the wind   and the clouds move over head

watch the fire spit from the engine as you give it some throttle

hearing the squeak of the wheels as the plane starts to move

hearing the rattling of the plane as you hit bumps in the runway on takeoff

listening to the whining of the landing gear motor as that are retracted....

 

along with almost photo realistic rendering   and a rich complexity in depth of mission CO-OP and campaigns  only adds to a greater overall immersive quality of a Sim.

 

you can only take so many grains from the castle before it collapse's and the more features and immersive quality's you take away are steps backward and if you keep going to will end up  where you started...which in this case would be IL2 1946.

What I fear along with others is that (after reading the diary) is that BoS will just be a graphically updated 1946..(same hooker new dress;) ) with very few planes or maps.

 

They have alot of the models from CLoD... lets just hope the immersive quality's find there way as well

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Whining complaining and complex features did not kill CLoD...

So.. are you saying whining and complaning kept it alive longer?

[[KWN]T-oddball]

So.. are you saying whining and complaning kept it alive longer?

no...but it kept you busy

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

no...

So.. you agree whining and complaning can hurt the life cycle of a product

[[KWN]T-oddball]

I am very clever...I can edit someone else's post!

yes...yes you are....we will talk more after your nap

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

No whining and complaining can not hurt the life cycle of a product

No?

 

It sounds like you have never had the opportunity to take a basic 100 level marketing class that talks about the life cycle of a product?

 

Lets recap what you have said thus far, You said

 

whining and complaining didn't kill it..

whining and complaining didn't keep it alive longer..

whining and complaining does not hurt the life cycle of a product..

 

So in summary your saying whining and complaining has no effect at all

 

Interesting

 

So you belive that 1C lost no sales due to whining and complaining?

 

That is to say you belive that there is no one out there that decided not to buy CoD based on the negative whining and complaining post in the 1C forum

 

An interesting perspective indeed!

 

[[KWN]T-oddball]

So in summary your saying whining and complaining has no effect at all

 

Interesting

 

So you belive that 1C lost no sales due to whining and complaining?

 

 

they lost sales because the game was a disaster at release..no multi core, no SLI  no doumenttation ...etc along with bad reviews  the word spread like wild fire...all the positive praise in the world would not make the crashing or stuttering go away.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

along with bad reviews  the word spread like wild fire...

Ah so you do agree that whining and complaining (aka bad reviews) can affect the sales of a product and thus it's life cycle!

 

[vl6]

Ah so you do agree that whining and complaining (aka bad reviews) can affect the sales of a product and thus it's life cycle!

Comments in a forum are nothing compared to a bad management and the delivering a unfinished product and lack of money. If Clod got a bad reputation it was mainly  because of it's failures, and not from the critics of some users.

Anyway, there's no need to act like an inquisitor, let's just calm down, this topic have enough agression. <_<

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Comments in a forum are nothing compared to a bad management and the delivering a unfinished product and lack of money.

Agreed whining and complaining (aka bad reviews) can affect the sales (lack of money) and thus it's life cycle Edited December 15, 2012 by ACEOFACES

[LG1.Farber]

Agreed whining and complaining (aka bad reviews) can affect the sales (lack of money) and thus it's life cycle

Bingo!

[vl6]

Yes, but its cause and consequence. If they release a beta product of course that will have bad reviews (and the reviews was disastrous). Many costumers are people that just play on the weekend in "easy" realism, and they will not support one product just for passion, like many hardcore  gamers did.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

It was not whining that hurt CloD - they over reached, over promised, and could not deliver a profitable product.

 

Some CloD fanbois are dilusional. I am sure everyone would have been happy if the "CloD" that was originally decribed by the devs came to fruition. It fell way short and as such lost the support of much of the market. You can pretend all you want and make things up about the reasons CloD development stopped. Either way officially "CloD" is over.

 

Now what that the IC and 777 merger was announced I am sure those guys learned their lessons - do not over reach,do not over promise, and deliver something that works. That may not be good enough for some of you - but so what. Just don't buy it if you don't like it.

Edited December 15, 2012 by 4./JG53_Wotan

[vl6]

It was not whining that hurt CloD - they over reached, over promised, and could not deliver a profitable product.

 

Some CloD fanbois are dilusional. I am sure everyone would have been happy if the "CloD" that was originally decribed by the devs came to fruition. It fell way short and as such lost the support of much of the market. You can pretend all you want and make things up about the reasons CloD development stopped. Either way officially "CloD" is over.

 

Now what that the IC and 777 merger was announced I am sure those guys learned their lessons - do not over reach,do not over promise, and deliver something that works. That may not be good enough for some of you - but so what. Just don't buy it if you don't like it.

 

yes, and amen.

[Krupi]

no...but it kept you busy

LOL

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

It was not whining that hurt CloD

So.. are you saying whining and complaning kept CoD alive longer?

[vl6]

Well.... nha I give up of this topic!

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

"I trust 777 and I am sure a unique experience will be created, just not sure of the cost. 

 

Lt.Wolf"

 

I trust Jason as well.  Why?  

Unlike the Dev's at CloD 1C?

He uses/plays/competes with his very own product.

 

That's my last reference to a defunct, dismissed and abandoned project, here.

 

I hope others are like minded.

Folks like myself, who "moved on" over to this nice place?

Perhaps, should place more emphasis to the "moved on" and less on the past.

 

Salute to Lt. Wolf & Everybody

 

Your right, im finished talking about it.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Furbs

[Krupi]

Well.... nha I give up of this topic!

 

It started well but the ego's and the BS's arrived 

 

Like I said give it a few weeks hopefully everyone has calmed down a bit and then we can start a mature thread (yes I am that naive  )

Edited December 15, 2012 by JG52Krupi

[4./JG53_Wotan]

So.. are you saying whining and complaning kept CoD alive longer?

If the Strawman only had a brain...

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

If the Strawman only had a brain...

Interesting..

 

I did not know the word Wotan in German means straw!

 

Thanks for the heads up! S!

[addman]

IIRC even Jason once said that constant negativity can damage a title, or words to that effect. For some reason some of the more vociferous complainers about CoD seem to have done a complete 180 here.

Furbs why is it that the things you complained about in CoD are ok for BoS? You have been strangely silent so far.

 

The difference now is that a lot of people are pre-complaining about a product that almost only exists in concept so far, before CloD was released I was up in the air enthusiastic and pumped for the game. Almost dissing the likes of Tree_Uk and others. Just read my posts on banana pre-release, I -personally- wasn't- pre-complaining like some others have set upon themselves to do this time around. The bitterness is so thick in here you could eat it with a spoon....

[Specht]

ACEOFACES, would you immediately remove yourself from this thread, please?

[Bearcat]

ROFLMAO!!!

 

Yup... Like it or not for what it's worth.. this is the closest we had to the old days in a long long time... Now all some o y'all have to do is get off the stick and do something about that gray dude in your avatar window..

Edited December 15, 2012 by Bearcat

[Hunin]

Aye. This is way more fun then it should be allready ^^

[Force10]

  There is a big difference what's going on here vs. what happened at 1C. The majority of complaints at 1C happened after the product was released and people were disapointed. Right now, there are a lot of sour grapes and certain folks are determined to try and bad mouth this title before it's even released. If you aren't happy with what the title will or won't have, you have the ability to back out now since you have nothing invested in it yet. At the very least, Jason and 777 aren't misleading potential customers with a lot of smoke and mirrors about features that they might not be able to implement.

 

     I haven't always agreed with the ROF business model or certain aspects of the sim, but I can't say Iv'e ever been mislead about anything stated by Jason or 777. Honesty and good management from a develeoper is worth supporting IMO, even if it doesn't have all the things I hoped for.  

 

 

Edit:  Addman beat me to it! (more or less)

Edited December 15, 2012 by Force10

[SlipBall]

The difference now is that a lot of people are pre-complaining about a product that almost only exists in concept so far, before CloD was released I was up in the air enthusiastic and pumped for the game. Almost dissing the likes of Tree_Uk and others. Just read my posts on banana pre-release, I -personally- wasn't- pre-complaining like some others have set upon themselves to do this time around. The bitterness is so thick in here you could eat it with a spoon....

 

I think most of them are just concerned of the product details, and are offering their thoughts of what it should...it will be a 2014 game

[Bearcat]

  There is a big difference what's going on here vs. what happened at 1C. The majority of complaints at 1C happened after the product was released and people were disapointed. Right now, there are a lot of sour grapes and certain folks are determined to try and bad mouth this title before it's even released. If you aren't happy with what the title will or won't have, you have the ability to back out now since you have nothing invested in it yet. At the very least, Jason and 777 aren't misleading potential customers with a lot of smoke and mirrors about features that they might not be able to implement.

 

     I haven't always agreed with the ROF business model or certain aspects of the sim, but I can't say Iv'e ever been mislead about anything stated by Jason or 777. Honesty and good management from a develeoper is worth supporting IMO, even if it doesn't have all the things I hoped for.  

 

 

Edit:  Addman beat me to it! (more or less)

 

 

Yeah but considering how silly that is when you really look at it.. DON'T FEED IT AND IT WON'T GROW.. LOL

[Mac_Messer]

With the reception CoD got it surely can surprise no-one that flight sim developers say to themselves "never again". The vitriol and perfidity unleashed by some in the flight sim community still astounds me to this day. One of the weirdest phenomena I've ever seen on the internet. I mean, if you are so unhappy with a product surely you just walk away (after perhaps one broadside in disgust). But no, the haters stuck with it till they got their much-vaunted result, the cancellation of BoM, oh happy day!

 

CoD was amazingly ambitious, a shining diamond in many areas, but also bug-ridden as could be expected when developers just strike out and decide to go for the boldest sim engine possible. Obviously a sizeable part of the community would have no such thing, and now, as things were, we will get a sensible product, not overly ambitious but doable, and hopefully capable of putting some bread and butter on the developers' table. Let's call it the end of "mad geniuses being carried away" and the beginning of "feet on the ground, not risking the bacon". If I have a family to feed, I know which developer I'd prefer to work for.

 

I have great hopes for BoS because of the wonderful work Neoqb/777 Studios have done for Knights of the Sky/Rise of Flight. With the flight sim community being what it is - more than happy to stab a knife in the back of ambitious dreamers that bite off more than they can chew - I think that the way indicated by Loft is really the best. I hoped to live in a world where projects like CoD and BoM could be left alone by haters and find support by those who love to see technology taken as far as possible, but that clearly is not the world we live in.

 

(Bandy, relativize "the harm done": dealing with bugs in a flight sim you are free to walk away from is surely of less import than trusting your life to flappy wings when going over the ledge of the Eiffel Tower, or into space in a rocket. Could the world not afford a bold experiment in flight simming?)

I agree.My sentiments exactly.

[Hunty]

I had more fun reading on the 1c CLOD forums than i did on the actual sim so it wasnt all a waste of money.

[Freycinet]

I just hoped this forum would be moderated so people could not insult others gratuitously. Not what I expected from a new friendly forum....   

Edited December 15, 2012 by Freycinet

[HH_Bluemoon]

Cliffs of Dover was a great game IF it  wound have worked as it should have been. Therefore Im asking myselfe since the release of CLoD "what have the beta testers and quality testers been doing ?"  <- sorry boys but that was burning on my tongue since a long time lol

It felt just uncompleted. The makeup and features were a disaster (no dedicated server / lobby suppport )

But on the other hand !!!! We dont need another arcarde style game as the 2 that are in open beta now !!!!  Why not complete the game with all the trimmings and the planes ppl want to fly. And all are happy

[Opitz]

Uther!!!!!

 

You were banning people all the time so STFU!!

 

Give all people to ignore list and feel save again.

 

There is one HUGE step forward here right now - people like you lost their power to silence anyone they want.

 

 

Uther do you want to know at least one guy who is responsibke fir CLOD failure? Do you? Just look at mirrow and slap yourself few times for being arrogant and so called useful idiot for the last 2 years....

 

 

And now pleas3 lock this thread and ban anyone whi will start again their frustartion about CLOD end here. They can discuss it on banana forum nobody will distract them as there is nobody left with free speech right...

 

 

Uther - ROFL @ you !!!

[Opitz]

All you CLOD fanatics just go back to banana forum, call Luthier, ask him to give you SDK (well it doesnt exist anyway) and stop being complete idiots again here. Yoyr olace is banana forum. You cleared that space for you. You can discuss any CLOD topic there.

 

Just stop spreading your infantile banana habits here.

[Mac_Messer]

No, what ultimately sealed COD's fate was the snivelling community that never realised quite what they were being 'given', MG had incurred the cost of developing all of these wonderfull features and got nothing in return but blatant slander and a complete lack of patience, admittedly in order to see what COD was really offering us you would have had to have the gift of being able to see beyond your nose, flight simming is a dying genre and COD was going to be the swansong, instead of something really impressive we are going to be seen out with something safe, dependable, unambitious and slighly beyond it's sell by date but repackaged to say otherwise.

 

This is my oppinion, I am entitled to share it, don't like it then just ignore it and walk away.

I think there`s hidden sence in this. What if 777 studios saw what people did to CloD dev team. Maybe now BOS devs are looking to satisfy those users that brought CloD down with their whines. And that requires making a working product from the very release, although quite behind the times as the dev team tries to play it safe most of the time.

[fly_zo]

... well seams to me that one of  IL2 legacy has been well preserved ... UbiZoo forum manners !

 

so sorry for what they did to your thread Lt.Wolf , but you're right it should get locked (cleaned)

 

reg

Z

Edited December 15, 2012 by fly_zo

[SYN_Haashashin]

Agree with Lt.Wolf, It should be locked as it got to personal insults and personal issues. In fact I hope this doesnt turn out to be another "banana" forum cus I would do the same thing I did with "banana"...just never visite it cus I wasnt interested in the sim they offered and people behave over there.

[Streiff]

And where did you get that information from?  This is exactly the difference between voicing a concern in a constructive manner and trolling.

 

Seriously, grow a pair and get over it. You will find that your bananaforum attitude is not welcome here.

Nothing aginst 777.

 

They are known for many things, unlimited/solid funds isnt one of them.

 

 

Seems to me btw, that you are the one with an attidude here. Its not like the CloD forum members suddenly became guests at the RoF forum you know.

 

 

 

BTW, Tree, whats your oppinion on BoS using DX9? Any thoughts? :D

Edited December 15, 2012 by Baron

[=BKHZ=Tree_UK]

Nothing aginst 777.

 

They are known for many things, unlimited/solid funds isnt one of them.

 

 

Seems to me btw, that you are the one with an attidude here. Its not like the CloD forum members suddenly became guests at the RoF forum you know.

 

 

 

BTW, Tree, whats your oppinion on BoS using DX9? Any thoughts? :D

Well we will have to wait and see how it looks, as long has they don't put DX11 on the box and tell a multitude of others lies then we will get whats advertised!!

[LoneRanger]

Was that a vote for "Please no info on this title until it's gone gold", Tree?